Author Topic: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition  (Read 1523 times)

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Offline TolleMee

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2017, 12:27:28 AM »
Here we go....as predicted:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/vahe-gregorian/article161488683.html

VAHE GREGORIAN
JULY 14, 2017 5:05 PM
Scott Frantz’s coming out shows how ‘the culture has already changed in football’

When the University of Missouri’s Michael Sam came out publicly in 2014 and in the process became poised to be the NFL’s first openly gay player, the story wasn’t merely about boldly defying stereotypes.
It was about a prominent example of hope for those bullied for being different or who suffer in silence, afraid to be themselves for fear of rejection and all that may come with it.
Paradoxically enough, it also was about inching closer to the day when such an announcement might not make headlines — a day when acceptance eclipses the notion of grudging tolerance.

Consider, too, the active ingredient of societal influence that bubbles up from our most popular sports:

If they could feel safe in the melting pot of the locker room, it also would have implications well beyond those walls.
That day isn’t quite here yet, or Kansas State offensive lineman Scott Frantz’s story wouldn’t have been national news and he wouldn’t have been in tears as he revealed to his teammates he was gay during a players-only bonding exercise in 2015, a revelation made public by ESPN on Thursday.

“I’ve never felt so loved and so accepted ever in my life than when I did that,” Frantz told ESPN reporter Holly Rowe.
Yet if the day this is non-news isn’t here, it’s at least on the horizon.
Frantz’s story is part of what Outsports.com co-founder Cyd Zeigler believes is a “new normal.”
“We’ve got to stop talking about football, particularly big-time football, as though it is homophobic and its coaches and players are homophobic,” Zeigler said in a phone interview. “They are not. They’re not. It is a lie. You can’t say that any more.”

This isn’t just a spot assessment from Zeigler. In interviewing NFL rookies and players past such as Kurt Warner a few years ago, Zeigler came to believe the terrain had changed because so many told of their own acceptance.

Locker rooms, it turned out, weren’t inhabited by football players living in a vacuum.
They were occupied by men who may have gay family members, friends and teammates — and were acknowledging that.
“All these players who are coming out, they’re not changing the culture,” Zeigler said. “They’re showing how the culture has already changed in football.”
Just the same, Frantz represents another substantial step in several ways.

Because he is only a sophomore, he will be more visible as a player after coming out than was Sam, who was drafted in the seventh round by the Rams but didn’t make the team and later was waived from the Dallas Cowboys practice squad.

Because he is one of at least five openly gay players in college football this year, including freshman My-King Johnson at Arizona, a trend that can only comfort those looking for encouragement.
Because of the momentous statement it evoked from 77-year-old coach LHC Bill Snyder, who in the process added to his own remarkable profile.
“What impressed me about this story is that Scott really thought that he could assist others who were experiencing perhaps the same thing or something very similar to this,” Snyder said in a release. “And that hit home with me. And you know I wanted him to have the opportunity to be able to assist others who may be in a somewhat similar situation not necessarily in athletics but just in general.”
“I was quite comfortable that (our team) would be very receptive and that they would treat him as they always have — as his teammate and someone that they cared about. And they did.”
Perhaps also meaningful in all this is where so many of these steps have been taking place: right here in the conservative heart of America.
It was happening at Benedictine, a Catholic university in Atchison, Kan., where Jallen Messersmith of Blue Springs became the first openly gay college men’s basketball player in 2013.
It was unfolding in Columbia, where some 2,000 people lined Stadium Boulevard on a frigid February day in 2014 to form a peaceful human wall to “Stand for Sam” and muffle a hate group masquerading in Christianity.

It has played out in the offices of the Chiefs, where a small group within the organization helped Ryan O’Callaghan find the will to live rather than commit suicide as he had planned.
“All I had ever done was think how bad the reaction would be,” O’Callaghan told Outsports as he spoke of being deterred from his idea because of the concern of then-head athletic trainer David Price and sympathetic ears and steadfast support of clinical psychologist Susan Wilson and former general manager Scott Pioli.

Naturally, considering Pioli said in the same story that he had counseled other gay players and has a number of gay people in his life.

And now Frantz, who’s from Lawrence, comes out at Kansas State.
“We’re not talking about … New York City; we’re talking about Manhattan, Kansas,” Zeigler said.
Noting Sam and Johnson and the other current college football players who are out, he added, “For years I kept being told, ‘It’s easy being gay in New York City and Chicago and Los Angeles, but the rest of the country hates gay people.’

“If people open their eyes, they will see that this huge swath of the middle of the country that we painted as homophobic, this entire sport of football that we painted as homophobic, is just wrong. It’s not reality in 2017.”
That doesn’t mean it can be assumed everyone on the K-State football team immediately was fully into this.

Not any more than that was true at Mizzou, where Sam’s teammates honored his trust and overwhelmingly embraced him but there nonetheless were moments of unpublicized conflict.

“Not everybody is going to be totally accepting of this,” Zeigler said. “I’m sure that Scott had some teammates who don’t ‘agree’ with his being gay.”

But what might be surmised is this:

The prevailing culture now is at least trending toward one in which acceptance is the norm and rejection an exception that is being put aside, if not isolated.

“You learn very quickly in football … you better get along with everybody or the train is going to leave you behind because we’re going forward,” Zeigler said.

That didn’t necessarily make it easy for Frantz, of course.

“The definition of courage is acting in the face of fear; courage is the opposite of fearlessness,” Zeigler said. “(Frantz) was not fearless when he came out to his team. He was courageous.

“And when one sees courage in another person, it gives them more strength to do the same.”

And one more step toward making such a story routine.


Offline Pete

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2017, 08:18:54 AM »
YOU ARE RIGHT, PTOLEMY/TOLLEMEE!!!!  IT REALLY IS JUST AS PREDICTED!!!!! 


Here we go....as predicted:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/vahe-gregorian/article161488683.html



But what might be surmised is this:

The prevailing culture now is at least trending toward one in which acceptance is the norm and rejection an exception that is being put aside, if not isolated.




There are really only winners in a deal like this. I mean, maybe a few losers, but they are just the tiny minority of bigots who are put off by this....mostly because they know the days of their line of thinking are numbered, and they are increasingly revealing their true hateful selves (which causes them some discomfort).

But, really mostly just winners!


 :billdance: :ksu:

Offline SdK

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2017, 08:45:06 AM »
What did that story do to back up a prediction?

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2017, 08:56:38 AM »
It's pretty mumped up that the mods changes his name. The mods here are rough ridin' awful people to their core.
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2017, 11:03:45 AM »
Jeebus dudes, what the hell? Respect each others viewpoints, agree to disagree. If you want to be assholes take it to the pit. Stop behaving like jerks.  :rolleyes:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline ChiCat

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2017, 12:36:50 PM »
You guys should maybe take trash like that to the Pit. There's really no need for it here.

ESPN commands that we discuss it here because they think it is about sports.

The same assholes that try to shove Jackie Robinson down our throats as a sports story.

Offline ednksu

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2017, 12:39:20 PM »
It bothers me so much when people try to act like we shouldn't care about this or that it doesn't matter (usually with some bigoted qualifier, see "the K-State family" FB and issues with "condoning" or finding him "disgusting").  Just watch the video and see how emotional he gets.  See how he recounts the story of coming out, being so mentally shaken he is crying, sounding like near a panic attack,  all for telling his team mates, who should be his close confidants, what the fibers of his humanity are made of.  We have a long way to go when anyone still feels like they can't be loved and accepted for who they are.  If wanting a society where people can be who they are, without fear of reprisal and rejection makes you a SJW, sign me up.

There's an inherent contradiction in preaching something is normal while simultaneously throwing a parade every time somebody publicly discloses their normalcy. That annoys people.

People also get annoyed (mostly on social media) by the pius hangers-on who scream "look at me, I support this, which makes me a good person, probably better than anyone who doesn't scream support for this."

I don't gaf, but it's obvious that's going on.

I have some serious issues with the idea that people get annoyed about this for the simple logic issue of celebrating normalcy.  First I don't think we're at all ready to call acceptance of the gblt community normal when they still don't have full legal rights as parents, the major parties in politics still don't accept their unions, and until recently there were other laws criminalizing their lifestyles.  The annoyance is coming from people on places like the K-State family who start off with "I don't condone" or "I find it disgusting."  That isn't annoyance that we're celebrating individuals too much but a deep hatred of the other who are allegedly eroding "family values," the value of marriage, and a host of other complaints.   I can agree to some extent that we've self divided our society to a degree to recognize the groups which make up our tapestry. 

But to your point about virtue signaling, which is the more harmless in our society?  Yeah a Prairie Village soccer mom might go on and on about how great it is, how she supprots X cause, but in the end, she is pretty easy ignore.  But lets examine these signaling we've seen from the "other side" who say it's disgusting or unacceptable.  You're publicly rejecting fundamental parts of another's humanity because you don't agree with it.  You're voting for politicians who are actively working to limit rights and privileges of these citizens based on their lifestyles.  That to me is the unacceptable virtue signaling. 

For the football side of things, if this were "normal" or "normalized" we wouldn't see ESPN segments on it.  There would be a few gay players on every team. Instead we're just now seeing the first handful of people coming out in this sport.  I'm glad that most everyone is moving to support Scott as I half expected a pretty bad backlash.  I hope he doesn't face nonsense on the road and I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see it in Lawrence. 
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Offline michigancat

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2017, 12:55:35 PM »
there have been a lot of things posted ITT that aren't even worth acknowledging. Just so all you dumbasses know.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2017, 01:03:14 PM »
Roasted!
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2017, 05:33:32 PM »
So Ptolemy got ran? Sounds about right, he thought different things, must be eradicated :shakesfist:
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Offline SdK

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2017, 06:10:27 PM »
When has that ever not been the case on gE?

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2017, 06:59:08 PM »
When has that ever not been the case on gE?

Always

Offline Tubesock

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2017, 08:21:32 PM »
Perception is reality  :dunno:
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Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2017, 11:34:26 PM »
Reading the news of this, it appears that the player announced that he preferred men sexually to his teammates privately 2 years ago.

But it came out nationally, on ESPN, just Friday morning.

Is there any coincidence about the timing in that ESPN aired the ESPYs Thursday night?

Just wondering about motivation and if media powers are aligned so, I am acting to protect my university from being used as a national propaganda tool.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2017, 08:52:54 AM »
nice mod'ing super mods

Offline steve dave

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2017, 08:53:53 AM »
It's pretty mumped up that the mods changes his name. The mods here are rough ridin' awful people to their core.

So Ptolemy got ran? Sounds about right, he thought different things, must be eradicated :shakesfist:

are you two, like, irl this stupid or is this an act for the internet?

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2017, 08:55:58 AM »
It's pretty mumped up that the mods changes his name. The mods here are rough ridin' awful people to their core.

So Ptolemy got ran? Sounds about right, he thought different things, must be eradicated :shakesfist:

are you two, like, irl this stupid or is this an act for the internet?

 loser fascist toolbox post

 :zzz:
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Offline treysolid

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2017, 09:12:16 AM »
Reading the news of this, it appears that the player announced that he preferred men sexually to his teammates privately 2 years ago.

But it came out nationally, on ESPN, just Friday morning.

Is there any coincidence about the timing in that ESPN aired the ESPYs Thursday night?

Just wondering about motivation and if media powers are aligned so, I am acting to protect my university from being used as a national propaganda tool.

do you think ESPN is trying to turn us all gay? like the frogs?

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2017, 10:05:46 AM »
It's pretty mumped up that the mods changes his name. The mods here are rough ridin' awful people to their core.

So Ptolemy got ran? Sounds about right, he thought different things, must be eradicated :shakesfist:

are you two, like, irl this stupid or is this an act for the internet?

Both?

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2017, 10:21:10 AM »
@cat27

Not only did we get two downgrade pos mods to respond, but they even validated our point.

 :lol: :cheers:
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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2017, 10:22:13 AM »
Yeah You're killing it someone who makes me uncomfortable

Offline libstradamus

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2017, 11:57:49 AM »
It's pretty mumped up that the mods changes his name. The mods here are rough ridin' awful people to their core.

So Ptolemy got ran? Sounds about right, he thought different things, must be eradicated :shakesfist:

are you two, like, irl this stupid or is this an act for the internet?

Both?

 :surprised:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline libstradamus

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2017, 12:00:04 PM »
Are fsd and cat27 both Chingon socks as well?  :surprised:  that guy is brilliant
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline gatoveintisiete

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team - The Pit Edition
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2017, 04:00:02 PM »
@cat27

Not only did we get two downgrade pos mods to respond, but they even validated our point.

 :lol: :cheers:

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it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Good For Scott And Good For The Team
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2017, 11:20:52 PM »
Good for Scott. I understand that there's still a phobia of homosexuality in athletics and it takes courage to buck that trend. But also, looking forward to the day when people can just play football without feeling compelled to announce whether they prefer having sex with men or women.

Can anyone provide some examples of this "phobia of homosexuality in athletics?"

I'm being totally serious, so please don't delete my question because you are threatened in some really inconceivably weak way.

Thank you..look forward to examples of "phobia of homosexuality in athletics."