Dallas

[catastrophe]

there is a lot of data here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

This does show more killings of whites than all other races combined, btw.

[sys]

The composition of the study is flawed.

not really, no.  at least not that i could discern from reading the ny times article.  the fact that the study conducted is not the study you wanted to be conducted does not make it flawed.

[Emo EMAW]

Anyway, some have made the point that the numbers are most relevant to specific precincts or municipalities or whatever you want to call it.

For example, let's just assume we have this problem in KCK or KCMO.  I have heard that the demographics of the respective police forces are waaaaay too white compared to the demographic of the population.  It's going to take many years, maybe 20 or 30 years, to get halfway close to an ideal state.  Which I'm not saying means we shouldn't try, but it's good to set some realistic expectations.  Kudos to the Dallas police chief urging his constituents to join his department.  That's a great first step (although I don't think Dallas has much of a problem anyway, but whatevs).

[TCUHornedFrog]

there is a lot of data here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

This does show more killings of whites than all other races combined, btw.

catastrophe is a wackycat mult.

[catastrophe]

Hey bro, not my link.

[420seriouscat69]

The composition of the study is flawed.

not really, no.  at least not that i could discern from reading the ny times article.  the fact that the study conducted is not the study you wanted to be conducted does not make it flawed.

This

[TCUHornedFrog]

The composition of the study is flawed.

not really, no.  at least not that i could discern from reading the ny times article.  the fact that the study conducted is not the study you wanted to be conducted does not make it flawed.

Small sample size, geographic limitations, and being based on police narratives=flawed study design for definitive conclusions.  It provides an interesting look at the numbers but it doesn't tell us anything definitive at this point and time. 

[420seriouscat69]

wgaf, nardfrog. Stop browning up this thread.

Browning*- gE term. Not racist.

[TCUHornedFrog]

Anyway, some have made the point that the numbers are most relevant to specific precincts or municipalities or whatever you want to call it.

For example, let's just assume we have this problem in KCK or KCMO.  I have heard that the demographics of the respective police forces are waaaaay too white compared to the demographic of the population.  It's going to take many years, maybe 20 or 30 years, to get halfway close to an ideal state.  Which I'm not saying means we shouldn't try, but it's good to set some realistic expectations.  Kudos to the Dallas police chief urging his constituents to join his department.  That's a great first step (although I don't think Dallas has much of a problem anyway, but whatevs).

Dallas had problems with cops shooting people with questionable justifications.  They bought body cameras and that stuff has dropped off considerably. 

Dallas has also led a lot of community outreach programs for the last few years and has had success with them. 

[TCUHornedFrog]

Hey bro, not my link.

 

[sys]

"geographic limitations" was what i was talking about when i said that it was not a flaw that the study conducted was not the one you wanted.  if you want a broader study, go do it yourself.

the sample size is fine.  they are forthright in disclosing that the information is based on the police officers' narratives.  it is a necessary (e.g. the only way to avoid it is to not conduct the study) limitation that informed consumers of the study can and should consider when viewing the study results.

[star seed 7]

Anyway, some have made the point that the numbers are most relevant to specific precincts or municipalities or whatever you want to call it.

For example, let's just assume we have this problem in KCK or KCMO.  I have heard that the demographics of the respective police forces are waaaaay too white compared to the demographic of the population.  It's going to take many years, maybe 20 or 30 years, to get halfway close to an ideal state.  Which I'm not saying means we shouldn't try, but it's good to set some realistic expectations.  Kudos to the Dallas police chief urging his constituents to join his department.  That's a great first step (although I don't think Dallas has much of a problem anyway, but whatevs).

I was reading something about Houston and they used to receive a ton of citizen complaints (or whatever). When the current police chief came into power he got rid of around 70 specific officers and immediately the citizen complaints dropped drastically. 70 out of 5500 were causing the bulk of the problem.

The larger problem is the police department for years protected those 70ish officers to the public's and the department's peril. And this is happening all over the country

[sys]

I was reading something about Houston and they used to receive a ton of citizen complaints (or whatever). When the current police chief came into power he got rid of around 70 specific officers and immediately the citizen complaints dropped drastically. 70 out of 5500 were causing the bulk of the problem.

The larger problem is the police department for years protected those 70ish officers to the public's and the department's peril. And this is happening all over the country

the amount of taxpayer money spent paying settlements in police misconduct cases is astonishing.

[TCUHornedFrog]

"geographic limitations" was what i was talking about when i said that it was not a flaw that the study conducted was not the one you wanted.  if you want a broader study, go do it yourself.

the sample size is fine.  they are forthright in disclosing that the information is based on the police officers' narratives.  it is a necessary (e.g. the only way to avoid it is to not conduct the study) limitation that informed consumers of the study can and should consider when viewing the study results.

The author of the study was directly quoted as saying that his work is not definitive work on police shootings.

It wasn't a necessary limitation.  It was a limitation imposed by himself due to the resources that he had to do the study. 

If people weren't trying to hold it out as a rebuttal to the mountains of research that show minorities disproportionately are victims of police misconduct, then I wouldn't have even mentioned it. 

[TCUHornedFrog]

I was reading something about Houston and they used to receive a ton of citizen complaints (or whatever). When the current police chief came into power he got rid of around 70 specific officers and immediately the citizen complaints dropped drastically. 70 out of 5500 were causing the bulk of the problem.

The larger problem is the police department for years protected those 70ish officers to the public's and the department's peril. And this is happening all over the country

I grew up with the KCPD (several family members were cops (retired now)).  The blue wall of silence is very real and pervasive. 

Police departments know who isn't fit to be a cop and officers need to do a better job of pointing those people out and removing them from being police officers. 

[Trim]

Exercise for white gE'rs: Think about some of your encounters you've had w/cops.  Would you have been comfortable, knowing what you know in 2016, going into those same situations if you were black?

Coincidentally, the last encounter I had w/a cop off the top of my head was as a passenger in MIR's car when he got pretextually pulled over for a brake light being out or something and held for DWB in Salina.

[TCUHornedFrog]

I don't think the article or study implied that when I read it 

That's correct.  He didn't, nor did the article.  But it was being quoted as if it were a rebuttal to everything we already know about policing. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I got pulled over for having a brake light out last year. I wasn't held, though. Just a written warning and I was on my way.

[TCUHornedFrog]

Pre-textual stops are the best. 

I've been pulled over more than a dozen times for stops like that over the course of my life.  I have a Hispanic sur name, but a typical white Midwesterner's skin complexion (every single vehicle I've owned has had tinted windows).  For about a 1/3 of those stops, the cops gets to the window and double checks all of my info, gives me a bs excuse for pulling me over and then has sent me on my way.

During about half of those, the officer has approached my car with gun unholstered or in his hand.  Those were fun. 

I've gotten 3 made up tickets as a result of these stops too (fines totaled up to some where around $1200). 

Ftr, I'm always polite with police because my family were cops and because I've never wanted to get beat up by a cop on a power trip.  I've seen friends get their heads smashed in by cops for simply giving a smart ass remark to a cop. 

[sys]

The author of the study was directly quoted as saying that his work is not definitive work on police shootings.

there is no such thing as a definitive study.

It wasn't a necessary limitation.  It was a limitation imposed by himself due to the resources that he had to do the study.

exactly, available resources imposed this limitation. 

If people weren't trying to hold it out as a rebuttal to the mountains of research that show minorities disproportionately are victims of police misconduct, then I wouldn't have even mentioned it.

the study shows that minorities (blacks, compared to whites) are disproportionately victims of police misconduct, in the localities included in the study.

[420seriouscat69]

Mrs. Wacky got pulled over in Salina last year, while we were at a wedding. She was 7 mph over. Got a ticket. I guess she got pulled over for driving a suv or whatever excuse you guys want to make of it.

[sys]

Exercise for white gE'rs: Think about some of your encounters you've had w/cops.  Would you have been comfortable, knowing what you know in 2016, going into those same situations if you were black?

i haven't been comfortable as a white person, knowing what i knew when i knew it.

[Trim]

I got pulled over for having a brake light out last year. I wasn't held, though. Just a written warning and I was on my way.

Would you have been comfortable, knowing what you know in 2016, going into those same situations if you were black?

[star seed 7]

I got pulled over for having a brake light out last year. I wasn't held, though. Just a written warning and I was on my way.

I was pulled over once for a taillight out and then found out my license was suspended (state eff up) and tags expired (my eff up) and I got a warning for the light and tags and a ticket for the license and the whole thing took like 10 minutes tops.

Being white rules

[Trim]

Exercise for white gE'rs: Think about some of your encounters you've had w/cops.  Would you have been comfortable, knowing what you know in 2016, going into those same situations if you were black?

i haven't been comfortable as a white person, knowing what i knew when i knew it.

Def should've made my testing sample "white gE'rs except sys."