Author Topic: Gender Issues  (Read 43237 times)

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Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #225 on: May 09, 2016, 03:33:08 PM »
I am working off of Fedor's definition of sexual attraction.

his definition is fine.  i'm not looking to redefine the term, any mainstream definition will do.


perhaps you're assuming a degree of intensity that is not implicit in the definition.  like you, i'm monogamous and have no intention or desire to engage in an extra-monogamous sexual encounter.  yet you estimate you experience 0/100 instances of sexual attraction.  i see people constantly that i find sexually attractive.  probably dozens/day, more if i'm in a city.

to what would you ascribe the difference?

I think the problem is that Fedor said if you don't actually want to have sex with them then they don't count as a sexual attraction.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #226 on: May 09, 2016, 03:37:46 PM »
I am working off of Fedor's definition of sexual attraction.

his definition is fine.  i'm not looking to redefine the term, any mainstream definition will do.


perhaps you're assuming a degree of intensity that is not implicit in the definition.  like you, i'm monogamous and have no intention or desire to engage in an extra-monogamous sexual encounter.  yet you estimate you experience 0/100 instances of sexual attraction.  i see people constantly that i find sexually attractive.  probably dozens/day, more if i'm in a city.

to what would you ascribe the difference?



Can you choose a mainstream definition you like? It shouldn't be difficult.

I explained that I disagree with Fedor's definition because of the exact scenario you describe - like you, I definitely would consider many people sexually attractive yet have no desire to engage in an extra-monogamous sexual encounter. The difference is all in the interpretation:

Quote
Sexual attraction is an occurence where a person has a desire for sexual contact with a specific other person.

maybe if the definition included a "no negative consequences" clause we'd be closer to something I would agree with. Of course people might find members of the same sex more attractive if there were no negative cultural consequences. One's entire outlook on sexual attraction would probably change dramatically.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #227 on: May 09, 2016, 03:38:14 PM »
I think the problem is that Fedor said if you don't actually want to have sex with them then they don't count as a sexual attraction.

his definition did not state that.  i can desire sex with someone without wanting or intending to have sex with them.  just as i can desire a doughnut with my coffee, but not walk over to the break room and pick one up.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #228 on: May 09, 2016, 03:41:32 PM »
I am working off of Fedor's definition of sexual attraction.

his definition is fine.  i'm not looking to redefine the term, any mainstream definition will do.


perhaps you're assuming a degree of intensity that is not implicit in the definition.  like you, i'm monogamous and have no intention or desire to engage in an extra-monogamous sexual encounter.  yet you estimate you experience 0/100 instances of sexual attraction.  i see people constantly that i find sexually attractive.  probably dozens/day, more if i'm in a city.

to what would you ascribe the difference?

I think the problem is that Fedor said if you don't actually want to have sex with them then they don't count as a sexual attraction.
This is primal stuff, somewhere deep in your caveman brain there is a reaction that says "me want make boom boom with her/him".  Of course the rational part of the brain takes over and says "No, you can't do that you are married, think of the children etc.", and the urge is not acted on.  You do not have to go through the physical act to have an occurrence of sexual attraction.

I do not know how to explain this any simpler, your lack of understanding cannot be anything but willful beyond this point.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #229 on: May 09, 2016, 03:42:06 PM »
this one is the first that came up on google.  it's fine.

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attraction on the basis of sexual desire or the quality of arousing such interest.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #230 on: May 09, 2016, 03:44:44 PM »
this one is the first that came up on google.  it's fine.

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attraction on the basis of sexual desire or the quality of arousing such interest.

:surprised:






(yes, I know)  :gocho:

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #231 on: May 09, 2016, 03:47:00 PM »
although that does not seem like a very binary definition. Fedor's was much better for our discussion because it attempted to draw a clear line. Yeah, he backtracked on that clear line, but it was a pretty good attempt.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #232 on: May 09, 2016, 03:55:43 PM »
it is binary.  you either are or are not attracted to a person at a given point in time.  are you confused because other (internal) conditions may impact your ability to experience attraction?  confused because intensity is not part of the definition?  help me understand why you perceive these words so differently than i do.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #233 on: May 09, 2016, 04:01:40 PM »
it is binary.  you either are or are not attracted to a person at a given point in time.  are you confused because other (internal) conditions may impact your ability to experience attraction?  confused because intensity is not part of the definition?  help me understand why you perceive these words so differently than i do.

Have you never been sort of attracted to someone or more attracted to one person than another (while still being attracted to the less attractive person)? There are definitely degrees of attraction.

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #234 on: May 09, 2016, 04:03:23 PM »
it is binary.  you either are or are not attracted to a person at a given point in time.  are you confused because other (internal) conditions may impact your ability to experience attraction?  confused because intensity is not part of the definition?  help me understand why you perceive these words so differently than i do.

Have you never been sort of attracted to someone or more attracted to one person than another (while still being attracted to the less attractive person)? There are definitely degrees of attraction.
2 occurrences, intensity does not matter.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #235 on: May 09, 2016, 04:04:50 PM »
Have you never been sort of attracted to someone or more attracted to one person than another (while still being attracted to the less attractive person)? There are definitely degrees of attraction.

of course different intensity of attraction is possible.  i was asking if that was what was confusing michigancat.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #236 on: May 09, 2016, 04:13:15 PM »
it is binary.  you either are or are not attracted to a person at a given point in time.  are you confused because other (internal) conditions may impact your ability to experience attraction?  confused because intensity is not part of the definition?  help me understand why you perceive these words so differently than i do.

There's too much ambiguity in that definition. One could shift it to mean whatever they wanted it to mean depending on the results they are trying to achieve. Like I said, Fedor's was much closer to defining a clear line, which is why I think his was better.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #237 on: May 09, 2016, 04:31:53 PM »
it is binary.  you either are or are not attracted to a person at a given point in time.  are you confused because other (internal) conditions may impact your ability to experience attraction?  confused because intensity is not part of the definition?  help me understand why you perceive these words so differently than i do.

Have you never been sort of attracted to someone or more attracted to one person than another (while still being attracted to the less attractive person)? There are definitely degrees of attraction.

My God, have you not ever heard of 1 or 0?  Either you would, or you wouldn't.  Pubescent boys have been playing this game for ever. 

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #238 on: May 09, 2016, 04:32:17 PM »
what part is ambiguous?
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #239 on: May 09, 2016, 05:11:25 PM »
it is binary.  you either are or are not attracted to a person at a given point in time.  are you confused because other (internal) conditions may impact your ability to experience attraction?  confused because intensity is not part of the definition?  help me understand why you perceive these words so differently than i do.

Have you never been sort of attracted to someone or more attracted to one person than another (while still being attracted to the less attractive person)? There are definitely degrees of attraction.

My God, have you not ever heard of 1 or 0?  Either you would, or you wouldn't.  Pubescent boys have been playing this game for ever.

Sometimes if there is a drought your standards get lowered.  :dunno: So someone who is a 0 now might be a 1 later.  :D

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #240 on: May 09, 2016, 05:13:26 PM »
my god, this stuff is so basic and you people are struggling so much.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #241 on: May 09, 2016, 05:14:42 PM »
what part is ambiguous?

Both the definition of "attraction" and the line between aesthetic and sexual desire.

You can just say, "michigancat you're a dumb weird alien I just know what attraction is and therefore it's simple", but that's not a very scientific explanation.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #242 on: May 09, 2016, 05:22:33 PM »
there is nothing about aesthetics in the definition.  it clearly and unambiguously states "sexual".  you are inserting ambiguity that does not exist.


if you do not understand the definition of "attraction", which is part of the phrase "sexual attraction", i suggest you look up the definition of attraction and see if it resolves your doubts.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #243 on: May 09, 2016, 05:47:19 PM »
there is nothing about aesthetics in the definition.  it clearly and unambiguously states "sexual".  you are inserting ambiguity that does not exist.

fine

if you do not understand the definition of "attraction", which is part of the phrase "sexual attraction", i suggest you look up the definition of attraction and see if it resolves your doubts.

I understand that the definition of "attraction" is very ambiguous:

Quote
a quality or feature of something or someone that evokes interest, liking, or desire.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #244 on: May 09, 2016, 07:15:56 PM »
are there words you don't find ambiguous?
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #245 on: May 09, 2016, 07:29:50 PM »
are there words you don't find ambiguous?
Yeah, there are tons*!

*the ambiguous version, not the measure of weight

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #246 on: May 09, 2016, 07:31:37 PM »
what part of the concept of attraction is ambiguous?
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #247 on: May 09, 2016, 10:18:47 PM »
are there words you don't find ambiguous?

Are there any definitions that you do find ambiguous? For example, are any human emotions ambiguous to you, or could they all be easily classified in a binary format?

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #248 on: May 10, 2016, 12:22:55 AM »
i haven't thought about it.  most things can probably be classified in a binary format, if that's the form the data need to be in.  maybe give me an example of one you think can't be and i'll see if you're right.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #249 on: May 10, 2016, 12:50:50 AM »
How about fear?

I think it COULD be classified in binary format, but it would be extremely difficult to define in a way that would lead to consistent results and meaningful data.