Author Topic: Gender Issues  (Read 43211 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #200 on: May 07, 2016, 01:08:10 AM »
like, you are the only person in the thread that finds the distinction confusing.
I'm honestly assuming you're trolling at this point. I can't believe you are this simple minded.

i'm pretty much at the same point with you.  "do i love rough ridin' or do i love my wife? - aah i can't tell, they all run together".  gmafb.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline stunted

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #201 on: May 07, 2016, 01:10:36 AM »
all this spectrum talk and apparently racism is binary

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #202 on: May 07, 2016, 01:27:32 AM »
all this spectrum talk and apparently racism is binary

there is definitely a racism spectrum

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #203 on: May 07, 2016, 01:38:32 AM »
like, you are the only person in the thread that finds the distinction confusing.
I'm honestly assuming you're trolling at this point. I can't believe you are this simple minded.

i'm pretty much at the same point with you.  "do i love rough ridin' or do i love my wife? - aah i can't tell, they all run together".  gmafb.

It will never be a perfect correlation, but feeling love for someone can enhance arousal/sexual stimulation and arousal/sexual stimulation can enhance feelings of love. So can how sleepy a person is, what shirt someone's wearing, the weather, what's playing on the radio, or any infinite number of inputs that the brain processes. (There are also instances where sexual arousal does not affect love or affection and vice versa.)

Your attempts to try to classify human arousals/urges/wants/needs/emotions into tidy distinct segments is somewhat ironically overcomplicating things. Accept the complexity.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #204 on: May 07, 2016, 02:16:31 AM »
fedor, many posts ago, was right.  probably wasn't directly addressing you, but addressed this confusion.  you are confusing libedo with attraction.  not to mention confusing attraction with arousal.  you're like newton, hit on the head with an apple and throwing up your hands exclaiming - "there's mass, distance, acceleration, friction, wind, the tensile strength of green apple stems, not to mention whether i'm awake enough to roll out of the way of falling objects - falling apples, another of the world's complex and unsolvable mysteries."
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Spracne

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #205 on: May 07, 2016, 02:38:07 AM »
Turns out Frodor is kind of a faggins... and that's OK! :billdance:

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #206 on: May 07, 2016, 09:15:12 AM »


fedor, many posts ago, was right.  probably wasn't directly addressing you, but addressed this confusion.  you are confusing libedo with attraction.  not to mention confusing attraction with arousal.  you're like newton, hit on the head with an apple and throwing up your hands exclaiming - "there's mass, distance, acceleration, friction, wind, the tensile strength of green apple stems, not to mention whether i'm awake enough to roll out of the way of falling objects - falling apples, another of the world's complex and unsolvable mysteries."

Do you think your line if thinking is on the path to defining laws of sexual attraction between humans, much like Newton with attraction between masses?

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #207 on: May 07, 2016, 08:54:01 PM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #208 on: May 08, 2016, 12:35:10 PM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..

Yeah, I've definitely done a poor job explaining myself if you think the issues you're citing are closely related to my general point. The sexless hand and being unsure of the sexual identity of someone are pretty much irrelevant to me - they were just attempts at understanding where different types of attraction fell on the spectrum and sent us off the rails.

The main point I am trying to convey is that sexual attraction is not binary. I recognize that you are attempting to make it binary in order to define data and can see some value in that. But in order to create a binary data point, you first need to clearly define what constitutes "sexual attraction", and I haven't seen that definition from either you or Fedor. With a clearly defined point of what constitutes "sexual attraction", I think we could understand each other better.

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #209 on: May 09, 2016, 08:33:26 AM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..

Yeah, I've definitely done a poor job explaining myself if you think the issues you're citing are closely related to my general point. The sexless hand and being unsure of the sexual identity of someone are pretty much irrelevant to me - they were just attempts at understanding where different types of attraction fell on the spectrum and sent us off the rails.

The main point I am trying to convey is that sexual attraction is not binary. I recognize that you are attempting to make it binary in order to define data and can see some value in that. But in order to create a binary data point, you first need to clearly define what constitutes "sexual attraction", and I haven't seen that definition from either you or Fedor. With a clearly defined point of what constitutes "sexual attraction", I think we could understand each other better.
It may be more productive for you to propose your own definition and we can modify as necessary.  I don't relish the thought of chasing your alien hipster brain around trying to find wording that you find acceptable.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #210 on: May 09, 2016, 09:00:18 AM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..

Yeah, I've definitely done a poor job explaining myself if you think the issues you're citing are closely related to my general point. The sexless hand and being unsure of the sexual identity of someone are pretty much irrelevant to me - they were just attempts at understanding where different types of attraction fell on the spectrum and sent us off the rails.

The main point I am trying to convey is that sexual attraction is not binary. I recognize that you are attempting to make it binary in order to define data and can see some value in that. But in order to create a binary data point, you first need to clearly define what constitutes "sexual attraction", and I haven't seen that definition from either you or Fedor. With a clearly defined point of what constitutes "sexual attraction", I think we could understand each other better.
It may be more productive for you to propose your own definition and we can modify as necessary.  I don't relish the thought of chasing your alien hipster brain around trying to find wording that you find acceptable.
I'm just trying to understand your fixed definition of sexual attraction that can be used to classify it in a binary format. There's nothing to approve or reject - creating a fixed definition  helps us understand each other better.

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #211 on: May 09, 2016, 01:17:06 PM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..

Yeah, I've definitely done a poor job explaining myself if you think the issues you're citing are closely related to my general point. The sexless hand and being unsure of the sexual identity of someone are pretty much irrelevant to me - they were just attempts at understanding where different types of attraction fell on the spectrum and sent us off the rails.

The main point I am trying to convey is that sexual attraction is not binary. I recognize that you are attempting to make it binary in order to define data and can see some value in that. But in order to create a binary data point, you first need to clearly define what constitutes "sexual attraction", and I haven't seen that definition from either you or Fedor. With a clearly defined point of what constitutes "sexual attraction", I think we could understand each other better.
It may be more productive for you to propose your own definition and we can modify as necessary.  I don't relish the thought of chasing your alien hipster brain around trying to find wording that you find acceptable.
I'm just trying to understand your fixed definition of sexual attraction that can be used to classify it in a binary format. There's nothing to approve or reject - creating a fixed definition  helps us understand each other better.
There are widely varying definitions all over the internet, but we can start with this one, see where it leads and modify as nec.;
Sexual attraction is an occurence where a person has a desire for sexual contact with a specific other person.

In another post you thought 90% would be closer to the average.  To put this in perspective, a 35-yr old straight person who enters puberty at 15-yrs old would have the equivalent of two years of completely gay sexual attractions, assuming a constant rate of att./yr.  Reasonable?
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #212 on: May 09, 2016, 01:42:38 PM »
I still disagree that this percentage is a percentage of the times you have been attracted to people. I feel like if you have a stronger attraction toward a gender, then your percentage is higher - not necessarily a higher number of times of actually being attracted to that gender. Also, you guys are reading the chart wrong. On one axis is heterosexual and on the other axis is homosexual. So you don't just get a single percentage where % homo + % hetero = 100%. You get a % homo and a % hetero and each of them could be anywhere from 0 to 100%.

Also, I gave that % homo/hetero chart as an example of how to characterize it, but maybe it would be better just to talk about being attracted to the different points on the gender spectrum? Because if you are not 100% male or 100% female then what constitutes homosexuality or heterosexuality might get complicated.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #213 on: May 09, 2016, 02:11:22 PM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..

Yeah, I've definitely done a poor job explaining myself if you think the issues you're citing are closely related to my general point. The sexless hand and being unsure of the sexual identity of someone are pretty much irrelevant to me - they were just attempts at understanding where different types of attraction fell on the spectrum and sent us off the rails.

The main point I am trying to convey is that sexual attraction is not binary. I recognize that you are attempting to make it binary in order to define data and can see some value in that. But in order to create a binary data point, you first need to clearly define what constitutes "sexual attraction", and I haven't seen that definition from either you or Fedor. With a clearly defined point of what constitutes "sexual attraction", I think we could understand each other better.
It may be more productive for you to propose your own definition and we can modify as necessary.  I don't relish the thought of chasing your alien hipster brain around trying to find wording that you find acceptable.
I'm just trying to understand your fixed definition of sexual attraction that can be used to classify it in a binary format. There's nothing to approve or reject - creating a fixed definition  helps us understand each other better.
There are widely varying definitions all over the internet, but we can start with this one, see where it leads and modify as nec.;
Sexual attraction is an occurence where a person has a desire for sexual contact with a specific other person.

In another post you thought 90% would be closer to the average.  To put this in perspective, a 35-yr old straight person who enters puberty at 15-yrs old would have the equivalent of two years of completely gay sexual attractions, assuming a constant rate of att./yr.  Reasonable?

I don't think that's a good definition, because there are a great deal of people I would consider sexually attractive but that I would have zero desire to have sexual contact with. But yeah, if that's the definition you choose to use, I think "90% hetero, 10% homo" would be way low for heterosexual males in that case.

However, like mrs. Gooch said, I think we've been misinterpreting the spectrum chart she posted:



The chart is kind of confusing - is the percentage based on how strongly you are attracted to a gender or how many times you are attracted to a particular gender divided by the number of interactions with a particular gender? Or in your example, is it based on the amount of time you spent being attracted to a specific gender?

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #214 on: May 09, 2016, 02:20:05 PM »
My opinion is that it is how strongly you are attracted to that gender.

Here's the article that the spectrum came from. It says that most "heterosexual" or "homosexual" people are at around 70 or higher on their respective scale.

https://sites.google.com/site/alexisbrookex/sexual-orientation-spectrum

Quote
To determine your own sexual orientation, simply rate your attraction to the same sex and the opposite sex with a value from 1 to 99.

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #215 on: May 09, 2016, 02:43:41 PM »
mcat, i honestly don't know if you're intentionally searching for ambiguity to support some mysteriously hipster ideology, irredentially (not a word, i know, don't argue about it, you know what it means) contrarian or simply an alien life form that shares so little in common with normal humans that communication difficulties are inevitable.

some of my thought process is based in studies i've seen, papers i've read, etc.  but inevitably it's chiefly based on my own personal experience.  and i can not recall an instance where i've been in doubt regarding the sexual identity of a person i've been attracted to.  it's possible, even probable, that i've been incorrect in my assumption of their sexual identity, but i cannot recall a single occasion where i've been in doubt at the time of attraction.  like your example with the anonymous, sexless hands jacking you off.  i may have led a very boring life, but that's never happened to me.  if it had, i'm almost positive i'd have no more doubt about whether i'd been attracted to those hands or merely been stimulated like a prized ropinfeet bull hauled in for harvest than i have regarding the action of gravity upon an apple.

i simply don't comprehend your professed lack of comprehension..

Yeah, I've definitely done a poor job explaining myself if you think the issues you're citing are closely related to my general point. The sexless hand and being unsure of the sexual identity of someone are pretty much irrelevant to me - they were just attempts at understanding where different types of attraction fell on the spectrum and sent us off the rails.

The main point I am trying to convey is that sexual attraction is not binary. I recognize that you are attempting to make it binary in order to define data and can see some value in that. But in order to create a binary data point, you first need to clearly define what constitutes "sexual attraction", and I haven't seen that definition from either you or Fedor. With a clearly defined point of what constitutes "sexual attraction", I think we could understand each other better.
It may be more productive for you to propose your own definition and we can modify as necessary.  I don't relish the thought of chasing your alien hipster brain around trying to find wording that you find acceptable.
I'm just trying to understand your fixed definition of sexual attraction that can be used to classify it in a binary format. There's nothing to approve or reject - creating a fixed definition  helps us understand each other better.
There are widely varying definitions all over the internet, but we can start with this one, see where it leads and modify as nec.;
Sexual attraction is an occurence where a person has a desire for sexual contact with a specific other person.

In another post you thought 90% would be closer to the average.  To put this in perspective, a 35-yr old straight person who enters puberty at 15-yrs old would have the equivalent of two years of completely gay sexual attractions, assuming a constant rate of att./yr.  Reasonable?

I don't think that's a good definition, because there are a great deal of people I would consider sexually attractive but that I would have zero desire to have sexual contact with. But yeah, if that's the definition you choose to use, I think "90% hetero, 10% homo" would be way low for heterosexual males in that case.

However, like mrs. Gooch said, I think we've been misinterpreting the spectrum chart she posted:



The chart is kind of confusing - is the percentage based on how strongly you are attracted to a gender or how many times you are attracted to a particular gender divided by the number of interactions with a particular gender? Or in your example, is it based on the amount of time you spent being attracted to a specific gender?
You are finding them aesthetically pleasing, not sexually attractive.  If you do not want to have sexual contact you are by definition not sexually attracted. 
Examples; "Bro! That dude is ripped!"
               "Look at her, Becky, she is so beautiful.  I hate her"
               "Leo DiCaprio is an extremely handsome man."

Don't get too hung up on the graphic, I left that behind long ago.  It does not  have anything to do with the hypothesis or the method to test it except that it obscures where the majority of the population falls.  But yes I agree with your assessment, it is a degree of attractiveness, not # of times or % of time spent being attracted to a gender.

I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #216 on: May 09, 2016, 02:52:13 PM »
You are finding them aesthetically pleasing, not sexually attractive.  If you do not want to have sexual contact you are by definition not sexually attracted. 
Examples; "Bro! That dude is ripped!"
               "Look at her, Becky, she is so beautiful.  I hate her"
               "Leo DiCaprio is an extremely handsome man."

Those are all poor examples. I'm in a monogamous heterosexual relationship with no interest in pursuing sexual activity outside of that relationship. By your definition, if you showed me 100 pictures of anonymous humans I would find them all sexually unattractive and would be considered asexual on the spectrum.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #217 on: May 09, 2016, 03:00:59 PM »
Those are all poor examples. I'm in a monogamous heterosexual relationship with no interest in pursuing sexual activity outside of that relationship. By your definition, if you showed me 100 pictures of anonymous humans I would find them all sexually unattractive and would be considered asexual on the spectrum.

you really do either belong to a different species or not understand what sexual attraction is.  amazing.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #218 on: May 09, 2016, 03:02:18 PM »
you don't just get a single percentage where % homo + % hetero = 100%. You get a % homo and a % hetero and each of them could be anywhere from 0 to 100%.

the system i proposed is much better.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #219 on: May 09, 2016, 03:08:30 PM »
you don't just get a single percentage where % homo + % hetero = 100%. You get a % homo and a % hetero and each of them could be anywhere from 0 to 100%.

the system i proposed is much better.

What does an asexual person get on your scale?

Offline michigancat

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #220 on: May 09, 2016, 03:10:17 PM »
Those are all poor examples. I'm in a monogamous heterosexual relationship with no interest in pursuing sexual activity outside of that relationship. By your definition, if you showed me 100 pictures of anonymous humans I would find them all sexually unattractive and would be considered asexual on the spectrum.

you really do either belong to a different species or not understand what sexual attraction is.  amazing.

I am working off of Fedor's definition of sexual attraction. I think I'm close to understanding his definition, but there's still some grey area I'm trying to eliminate.

I don't understand your definition of sexual attraction because you haven't defined it. You insinuate that sexual attraction is a simple yes/no classification that is universal for all humans, so it seems like that should be pretty simple for you to define. Yet you haven't.

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #221 on: May 09, 2016, 03:13:46 PM »
What does an asexual person get on your scale?

no data.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #222 on: May 09, 2016, 03:17:22 PM »
Those are all poor examples. I'm in a monogamous heterosexual relationship with no interest in pursuing sexual activity outside of that relationship. By your definition, if you showed me 100 pictures of anonymous humans I would find them all sexually unattractive and would be considered asexual on the spectrum.

you really do either belong to a different species or not understand what sexual attraction is.  amazing.

I am working off of Fedor's definition of sexual attraction. I think I'm close to understanding his definition, but there's still some grey area I'm trying to eliminate.

I don't understand your definition of sexual attraction because you haven't defined it. You insinuate that sexual attraction is a simple yes/no classification that is universal for all humans, so it seems like that should be pretty simple for you to define. Yet you haven't.
Weren't you the person in this thread that said attraction is involuntary?

I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14

Offline sys

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #223 on: May 09, 2016, 03:20:35 PM »
I am working off of Fedor's definition of sexual attraction.

his definition is fine.  i'm not looking to redefine the term, any mainstream definition will do.


perhaps you're assuming a degree of intensity that is not implicit in the definition.  like you, i'm monogamous and have no intention or desire to engage in an extra-monogamous sexual encounter.  yet you estimate you experience 0/100 instances of sexual attraction.  i see people constantly that i find sexually attractive.  probably dozens/day, more if i'm in a city.

to what would you ascribe the difference?

"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Fedor

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Re: Gender Issues
« Reply #224 on: May 09, 2016, 03:20:43 PM »
You are finding them aesthetically pleasing, not sexually attractive.  If you do not want to have sexual contact you are by definition not sexually attracted. 
Examples; "Bro! That dude is ripped!"
               "Look at her, Becky, she is so beautiful.  I hate her"
               "Leo DiCaprio is an extremely handsome man."

Those are all poor examples. I'm in a monogamous heterosexual relationship with no interest in pursuing sexual activity outside of that relationship. By your definition, if you showed me 100 pictures of anonymous humans I would find them all sexually unattractive and would be considered asexual on the spectrum.
To be clear those are examples of aesthetic attraction not sexual attraction.
I was wrong and I apologize. - michigancat 8/22/14