HOW GREAT WOULD IT BE TO HAVE A LIKABLE BASKETBALL COACH?

[catzacker]

Chum1's not really wrong. I think oscar can sustain a program that gets to the tournament 30-40% of the time, which is probably above average for even a P5 coach, especially when you take out coaches from non-blue bloods.

If you knew nothing about Brad, (including his record), you could safely assume he would be worse than oscar.  I've long subscribed to the thought that a complete unknown is better than a shitty "known", but in oscar's case he is more average than shitty which creates an interesting dilemma. In a way, keeping oscar is a ballsy unconventional way of thinking that is sort of compelling.

I would argue that oscar's record moving forward would be, AT BEST, average - i.e. better than Asbury/wooly/altman but worse than Hartman/Krueger/Martin.  There's not evidence that suggests Brad would be any worse than average - and not acknowledging that is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

[sys]

weber doesn't have to be a bad coach, or even "deserve" to be fired in order to fire him.  there's only one kstate men's bball coach job in the world, and no one is entitled to keep it based on inertia.  underwood is a better fit, a better coach, and a better human.  just as there is only one kstate men's bball coach job, there's only one kstate alum, former successful high-major assistant, current unprecedentedly successful low-major coach in the world.  we cannot afford to let him coach elsewhere.

[michigancat]

Chum1's not really wrong. I think oscar can sustain a program that gets to the tournament 30-40% of the time, which is probably above average for even a P5 coach, especially when you take out coaches from non-blue bloods.

If you knew nothing about Brad, (including his record), you could safely assume he would be worse than oscar.  I've long subscribed to the thought that a complete unknown is better than a shitty "known", but in oscar's case he is more average than shitty which creates an interesting dilemma. In a way, keeping oscar is a ballsy unconventional way of thinking that is sort of compelling.

I would argue that oscar's record moving forward would be, AT BEST, average - i.e. better than Asbury/wooly/altman but worse than Hartman/Krueger/Martin.  There's not evidence that suggests Brad would be any worse than average - and not acknowledging that is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Theoretically, he has a 50% chance of being below average. Most coaches that are elevated to P5 jobs have similar, or even better resumes.

[ksupamplemousse]

chum1 does this every time we talk about oscar, it's best just to ignore him. I understand what he's saying, but think he's being dishonest by way of omission. He says that there is not enough data to judge in this particular case what oscar is going to do, BUT what he doesn't say is that applied to the rest of all the other coaches in the NCAA, that's pretty much true for every other man/woman as well. People don't get second chances at the same level all that often, nor do many tend to move around if they're doing well. To act like oscar is some unknowable enigma by analyzing the stats is fine, but I think there needs to be a disclaimer that he considers ALL prognostication regarding the future results of ANY college coach invalid.

[chum1]

weber doesn't have to be a bad coach, or even "deserve" to be fired in order to fire him.  there's only one kstate men's bball coach job in the world, and no one is entitled to keep it based on inertia.  underwood is a better fit, a better coach, and a better human.  just as there is only one kstate men's bball coach job, there's only one kstate alum, former successful high-major assistant, current unprecedentedly successful low-major coach in the world.  we cannot afford to let him coach elsewhere.

If you're going to do this, your guy should be Lon.

[sys]

If you're going to do this, your guy should be Lon.

don't you dare condescend to me, chum1.

[sys]

Most coaches that are elevated to P5 jobs have similar, or even better resumes.

that's really not true.

[ksupamplemousse]

Most coaches that are elevated to P5 jobs have similar, or even better resumes.

that's really not true.

Yeah, he was like the 2nd winningest coach of all time in his first two years. So, there is at least one qualification that is only really topped by one other candidate, ever.

[tdaver]

Chum1's not really wrong. I think oscar can sustain a program that gets to the tournament 30-40% of the time, which is probably above average for even a P5 coach, especially when you take out coaches from non-blue bloods.

If you knew nothing about Brad, (including his record), you could safely assume he would be worse than oscar.  I've long subscribed to the thought that a complete unknown is better than a shitty "known", but in oscar's case he is more average than shitty which creates an interesting dilemma. In a way, keeping oscar is a ballsy unconventional way of thinking that is sort of compelling.

Average just isn't good enough.  oscar's ceiling is average so fire him and give someone else a shot.  If the next guy can't do better, fire him and try again and again and again until we get a winner and then hold on as long as we can.  If that guy is Brad then great.  Anyone that's okay with average is part of the problem.

[Trim]

Underwood IS a likable coach, and as such, I don't see him selling his soul.

[Pete]

Chum1 seems unwilling to address the consumption value of the head coach's persona.

For example, I regard oscar as a turd.  This provides a negative consumption value for me, which when added to his average (AT BEST) coaching chops, leaves me with a well below average evaluation of oscar relative to available alternatives.  For me. 

So, you can correlate this and that or not or whatever.  oscar is dog crap, bro.

[Tobias]

pete, you're worth five (5) data points to me

[michigancat]

Chum1's not really wrong. I think oscar can sustain a program that gets to the tournament 30-40% of the time, which is probably above average for even a P5 coach, especially when you take out coaches from non-blue bloods.

If you knew nothing about Brad, (including his record), you could safely assume he would be worse than oscar.  I've long subscribed to the thought that a complete unknown is better than a shitty "known", but in oscar's case he is more average than shitty which creates an interesting dilemma. In a way, keeping oscar is a ballsy unconventional way of thinking that is sort of compelling.

Average just isn't good enough.  oscar's ceiling is average so fire him and give someone else a shot.  If the next guy can't do better, fire him and try again and again and again until we get a winner and then hold on as long as we can.  If that guy is Brad then great.  Anyone that's okay with average is part of the problem.

Well, this is the conventional way AD's operate. However, if you want stable cash flow and a clean image, well, oscar can give you that.

[pissclams]

oscar factoid: oscar has led his team to the ncaa tournament 11 times in 18 chances as a head coach

[michigancat]

Most coaches that are elevated to P5 jobs have similar, or even better resumes.

that's really not true.

Yeah, he was like the 2nd winningest coach of all time in his first two years. So, there is at least one qualification that is only really topped by one other candidate, ever.

He's at a much lower level than most people who jump to p5 conferences. He also took over a better situation than most. So it's not a stretch to assume he's an average candidate.

[chum1]

I'm pretty neutral on oscar's persona. I definitely lean toward being positive about it, though. For me, boring is bad. He's often boring, but not always. It's awesome that he'll say crap like we'd be in the tournament if we were in a different league. Brucecuses are amusing because of how people get genuinely offended by them. That's about all that comes to mind right now.

[michigancat]

I enjoy that I don't think he ever really wanted to be a basketball coach and somehow goofed his way to the top.

I think his brand of basketball is pretty boring though.

[ksupamplemousse]

Most coaches that are elevated to P5 jobs have similar, or even better resumes.

that's really not true.

Yeah, he was like the 2nd winningest coach of all time in his first two years. So, there is at least one qualification that is only really topped by one other candidate, ever.

He's at a much lower level than most people who jump to p5 conferences. He also took over a better situation than most. So it's not a stretch to assume he's an average candidate.

I agree, just trying to present a counterpoint.

[sys]

i don't think there's anything reasonable in assuming it's easier to win at sfa than it is at george mason, siena or pepperdine.

[michigancat]

i don't think there's anything reasonable in assuming it's easier to win at sfa than it is at george mason, siena or pepperdine.

That's fair, there's a ton of variability at play. However, you also can't assume that a coach winning 98% of conference games in three years will perform better at a high major than a coach who won 78% of conference games over six years at Pepperdine. Again, too much variability.

[pissclams]

oscar factoid: oscar has led his team to the ncaa tournament 11 times in 18 chances as a head coach

Northwestern should really aggressively go after oscar.

i would think that going to the ncaa tournament 60% of the time would be more than acceptable by most cats fan's standards versus hiring a guy who has never coached at this level and potentially setting our program back to the stone age.

[ksupamplemousse]

oscar factoid: oscar has led his team to the ncaa tournament 11 times in 18 chances as a head coach

Northwestern should really aggressively go after oscar.

i would think that going to the ncaa tournament 60% of the time would be more than acceptable by most cats fan's standards versus hiring a guy who has never coached at this level and potentially setting our program back to the stone age.

What if I told you that oscar won't make it to the tournament 60% of the time, it'd be more like 40%?

[pissclams]

oscar factoid: oscar has led his team to the ncaa tournament 11 times in 18 chances as a head coach

Northwestern should really aggressively go after oscar.

i would think that going to the ncaa tournament 60% of the time would be more than acceptable by most cats fan's standards versus hiring a guy who has never coached at this level and potentially setting our program back to the stone age.

What if I told you that oscar won't make it to the tournament 60% of the time, it'd be more like 40%?

well i guess if you're going to ignore the data points and stuff that's your prerogative

[kso_FAN]

Data. Do with it what you want.

[ksupamplemousse]

Data. Do with it what you want.

60% is pretty conspicuously missing from that table. The traject-o-meter could not be more clear. oscar is losing his edge at being mediocre.