firebrucewebernow.com

[michigancat]

I rank oscar's 2019 results above his 2018 results.

[wetwillie]

I rank oscar's 2019 results above his 2018 results.

Yea, that team was much better.   Damn those tiny bones in Dean Wades foot

[ChiComCat]

Wait a damn minute? The rest of the run? The rest of the run was oscar and the boys winning a game against a 9 seed we were underdogs against and most of this insane anti-oscar board thought we would lose. That was followed by beating the team that just beat the #1 team in the country by almost 30 points. That game was in no way looked at like it was a sure thing, this was four years ago, it's real easy to get the receipts on this. And yes, you're right, the Kentucky win was K-State's best tournament win since the Oregon State win in 1981 or whenever it was.

Calling those first two wins trash is hilariously bad, but those things happen when you're painted into the corner of trying to devalue an elite 8 run at Kansas State.

First of all, I'm not trying to devalue anything.  Say all E8s are equal, I don't care. 

If you are going to dissect the runs though, don't pretend that the seeding that 2010 earned is the same as the path 2018 got lucky with.

On the day the brackets were announced UMBC was literally rated as the trashiest trash in the tournament, thus why they were playing Virginia.  We played them instead of the team that was literally rated as the best in the tournament.  Everybody was pumped to play UMBC precisely because they were by far worse than Virginia.  If you think Creighton is a great win, fine, but they are the definition of tournament mediocrity with an 8 seed (we were the 9).  We did earn playing tournament mediocrity in the first round though!

[Trim]

https://www.kstatesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/oscar-weber/1566

What my point revolved around more is, do you think the above bio fairly describes oscar's accomplishments or the oscar experience from a hiring/employing perspective?  Nothing in there is a lie, although we know much more about the context of things than that bio gets into, particularly with respect to the E8 and championships.  It's just like a resume; it obviously puts things in the best light, but the hiring/employing party does more than just accept the resume at face value without digging into it more.

I was actually surprised they were as straight as they were re: the sharing of the championships.

[Shooter Jones]

I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

[chum1]

Plus we need a 2010 kenpom banner.

[ChiComCat]

I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

[cfbandyman]

K-State fans: The 2010 Elite 8 run was so magical. Average seeding we beat was an impressive 9.333!

Also K-State fans: The 2018 Elite 8 run was so flukey. Average seeding we beat was an embarrassing 9.666!

This is a very dumb take

The bottom line is if we're being honest the only difference between those two teams was the guy on the sideline.

Also a very dumb take

29-8 (11-5 2nd), 2 seed, 7 final AP, 6 kenpom
25-12 (10-8 4th), 9 seed, unranked, 42 kenpom

You don't think I knew the accomplishments of those teams when I posted that? When taken into historical context those teams will be looked like the same damn team.
...
For the record the '19 team, with the exact same players as the '18 team, was the best team we've had since the '88 team.

Historical context?  Who cares!  We’re kstate fans talking recent kstate hoops that we all experienced together.  Most of us like 2010 more than the 2018 because they were a much better team.  Period.  But that’s not to say we didn’t enjoy the hell out of that 2018 run as well.

If you want to say 2019 isn’t appreciated enough because of oscar, that’s an argument I can agree with.

But the historical context was the point of what I was saying when I stated that those teams were the same.

God, this conversation is gonna cause me to shine a bright light on a team I liked a lot, but looking back I'm not sure that team was as fun. Honestly, they disappointed us in big moments, more than once. Lost to assy Ole Miss in the Paradise Jam, lost to KU three damn times including in the Big 12 tournament championship, and they beat the holy eff out of us in the piss barn, that embarrassing loss to flood aggie on Senior day that we thought might have cost us Oklahoma City, and of course going out the way we did against Butler. In fact if they didn't get me an incredible weekend with my gE buds in Oklahoma City, it might have been the most disappointing team of our lifetime. That team definitely gets credit in retrospect that they probably didn't earn. That was a classic frank team, some great times marked by frustrating bullshit.

The '11 team was much more fun for me. The Sports Illustrated cover, The CBE, the Valentine's Day massacre, Frankuary, that fat Utah State fan crying in the stands, wild bill? Pullen breaking the scoring record. If not for bitch ass Colorado that would have been the goat team.

Colorado was absolutely infuriating that year. But that to me makes them not even close to all timing it because losing to them 3 times is a bigger head scratcher than losing to ku 3 times.

For the most part I agree, I think 2010 gets so much play cause of Xavier game in the S16 which was an all time game, out Jimmer Fredetteing Jimmer in OKC right after Farokamenish daggered ku, and beating #1 Texas. Losing to ku 3 times was practically ridiculous and that iowa state loss, at home, on senior day, was damn near unforgivable. Def a lot of bad with the good.

[Shooter Jones]

I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

And your hill is that the 2010 Elite 8 is a better accomplishment because they were seeded better going into the tourney?

[ChiComCat]

I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

And your hill is that the 2010 Elite 8 is a better accomplishment because they were seeded better going into the tourney?

My hill is that comparing the average seed of competition they faced is dumb because 2010 earned a weak slate by getting a better seed, whereas the 2018 team was very fortunate.

[Shooter Jones]

I've already emailed Gene requesting he make the 2010 Elite 8 Banner bigger than the 2018 one, and also add an * saying that *Some other team beat another team and it had nothing to do with this team but it makes this Elite a fluke* to the 2018 one.

Requested we go back through the Final 4's and adjust any that are kind of flukey as well.

lol - you can just admit your stat was dumb.  This isn't a hill you have to die on.

And your hill is that the 2010 Elite 8 is a better accomplishment because they were seeded better going into the tourney?

My hill is that comparing the average seed of competition they faced is dumb because 2010 earned a weak slate by getting a better seed, whereas the 2018 team was very fortunate.

Nobody earns or deserves anything in the NCAA tourney outside of what's in their control. It's March Madness.

My hill was never the average seeding thing.. My hill was that the 2 Elite 8's have the exact same value for the program. Both seasons the team was no where near winning a conference championship (the 2017-18 team was closer than 2009-10), and finished with an Elite 8 appearance. An Elite 8 can't be a positive for one coach, yet somehow a backhanded accomplishment for oscar.

[SkinnyBenny]

One further frame with which to assess these and which one, if any, is better: how close did the team come to making it to the final four in the actual E8 game? The 2010 team barely lost in the Elite 8 (by 7 points after all the free throws at the end) to Butler, who went on to play for the national championship (and lose only because they missed a last-second shot to Duke).  Meanwhile, in the E8 game for the 2018 team, we got absolutely pasted by 16 the 11 seed Loyola, who would go on to get absolutely rocked by Michigan in the Final Four game.

If you contend that it's a push between the two, look to the game that team lost to knock them out of the tournament, and who they lost it to.

















Also the 2010 team was way better and the tourney run was better and Frank rules and oscar stinks as we've all known since the day he was hired.

[Trim]

I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

[Shooter Jones]

I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

Meh, oscar needs to be fired the second a fiscally responsible plan is presented.

K-State also lost a Final 4 game by something like 30 points. We should definitely make that Final 4 banner smaller than the others.

[DQ12]

Time for oscar to go, but anyone discounting his accomplishments at K-State are idiots and losers imo.  The E8 banner and Dr. Peppers don't give a crap whether you guys think K-State/oscar actually earned them or not.

[Trim]

I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

Meh, oscar needs to be fired the second a fiscally responsible plan is presented.

ChiGene, this is an odd approach to negotiations from oscar’s agent, but the ball is now in your fOOD court.

[Shooter Jones]

I want Shooter and ChiCat to role play an after-season meeting with Shooter playing oscar or oscar’s agent and ChiCat playing gene (or how he’d like gene to be).

Meh, oscar needs to be fired the second a fiscally responsible plan is presented.

ChiGene, this is an odd approach to negotiations from oscar’s agent, but the ball is now in your fOOD court.

Show me the buyout money and we'll announce it as a retirement, cool? One other thing, you have to promise me Lowrey is your first interview for the new position

[Trim]

[Shooter Jones]

I'm at least going to get the Wiki updated soon, so let me know what else we want to cancel because we don't like someone or something.

26 NCAA Tournament Appearances (Removed oscar's 27-31)
17 Conference Championships (oscar's 18th and 19th GTFO)
16 Sweet Sixteens (oscar's 17th? LOL Virginia, doesn't count)
12 Elite Eights (13*, LOL lost by a lot to Sister Jean, so no)
3 Final Fours (4*, but lost by 22)
1 National Championship Appearance

[michigancat]

shooter what are you doing dude

[Shooter Jones]

Lol...bored in quarantine...hate oscar...love Cats basketball and it’s history

[mocat]

out of all of oscar's losses, i am by far still the most mad about LaSalle

[BIG APPLE CAT]

out of all of oscar's losses, i am by far still the most mad about LaSalle

Same. In part because we didn't have a lot of data points so at the time we had no way of knowing that his teams would end up establishing a distinctive pattern of early exits from the NCAA tournament. By the time it happened with UCI it was like well, yeah.

[wetwillie]

out of all of oscar's losses, i am by far still the most mad about LaSalle

I think it hurts so much because he did it to Angel.   

[MakeItRain]

One further frame with which to assess these and which one, if any, is better: how close did the team come to making it to the final four in the actual E8 game? The 2010 team barely lost in the Elite 8 (by 7 points after all the free throws at the end) to Butler, who went on to play for the national championship (and lose only because they missed a last-second shot to Duke).  Meanwhile, in the E8 game for the 2018 team, we got absolutely pasted by 16 the 11 seed Loyola, who would go on to get absolutely rocked by Michigan in the Final Four game.

If you contend that it's a push between the two, look to the game that team lost to knock them out of the tournament, and who they lost it to.

















Also the 2010 team was way better and the tourney run was better and Frank rules and oscar stinks as we've all known since the day he was hired.

I don't care what that margin was, Butler beat our asses. Look at the game flow. We scored 20 first half points, a six point deficit was 12. It's hilarious that we led, one time for 40 seconds, we weren't even tied for that long. That was such a frustrating game to watch, and despite Gordon Hayward I contend they were a trash team who played in the two worst national championship games OAT.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=300862306