Author Topic: firebrucewebernow.com  (Read 102677 times)

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2016, 10:02:09 AM »
i don't want to be in a place defending oscar because i hate him but when the riptide that is goEMAW decides to throw their collective weight behind someone whom i don't believe can at least deliver the success that oscar can, we need to start objectively examining the frying pan that we find ourselves in.  and that's not what's going on here lately.

if you think so little of our program today that you feel that brad underwood is our best option over a coach who delivers ncaa bids at a near 60% rate, what do you think the perception of the program will be after pushing oscar out in short order, and then brad if he fails?  because odds are very high that he won't have the success that oscar had.

so in a period of 12-14 years we will have churned huggs, frank, oscar and brad.  if i'm an up and coming coaching prospect, i'm looking for stability and k-state isn't it.

But what is K-State basketball now? Isn't that pretty much it?

Since Hartman we've had 7 coaches in 30 years. No coach has been here longer than 6 years. Its not like we're showing to be some destination job anyway.

I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

JMHO.

Offline Trim

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2016, 10:10:02 AM »
Huggs and Frank did fine here and are doing fine elsewhere now. I don't buy that other coaches think oscar is a great coach, no matter how much they sling that crap to the media. I don't see anyone saying, "oh no, they fired the great oscar weber I better stay away from there"

This is a part of why I don't want oscar to be fired.  Right now, the perception and reality of KSU's hoops problem is that they mumped up in running frank and hiring 2012 national laughingstock oscar.  So of course this is happening and that's just what KSU gets for that one incredibly dumb series of events in 2012.  If oscar gets run and currie hires greenberg or whoever he'd find willing to fill the oscar role and keep sucking, eventually perception will solidify that the KSU job was, is and always will be mumped and that frank was an anomaly.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2016, 10:15:24 AM »
Well, you are in the minority that doesn't want what's best for K-State. So there's that. You'd rather feel good about a grievance of a "I told you so" than have the cats be good at sports. You follow around transfer players like you know them. it's kinda weird.

Offline pissclams

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2016, 10:34:23 AM »
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys


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Offline The Whale

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2016, 11:05:00 AM »
I don't like watching cat games and hearing the broadcasters beginning to use "It's hard to win in / recruit to Manhattan" again.

Offline Trim

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #80 on: March 02, 2016, 11:08:53 AM »
I don't like watching cat games and hearing the broadcasters beginning to use "It's hard to win in / recruit to Manhattan" again.

That's just simpleton media types.  I don't believe confident coaching prospects think that.  It was all within the last decade that they saw that's an absurd statement, and now KSU theoretically has even more tools for someone good to recruit with.

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #81 on: March 02, 2016, 11:12:35 AM »
LOL at including the ncaa tourney appearances [or lack thereof] for the portions of their coaching careers outside the P5. Or Baylor's probation.

Jesus. Illinois had missed the the ncaa's twice in the previous 11 years before oscar got there and missed the postseason entirely only once in that time. Then oscar gets there and in 9yrs missed the ncaa's 3 times and the postseason twice.

KSU's shitty program hadn't missed a postseason in the previous 6 years, missed the ncaa twice.....and within 4 rough ridin' years oscar has missed the ncaa's twice and probably the postseason twice.

For eff sake.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #82 on: March 02, 2016, 11:14:08 AM »
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys

oscar is probably ahead of Johnson and even with Ford right now on my ranking of Big 12 coaches. Everyone else is ahead of him. The guy he's even with will likely get fired this year. The last 10 years is what oscar is at this level. I will give him credit for building Southern Illinois back up, but he inherited an ideal situation with his roster at Illinois. Since then, he's been a mediocre P5  (not terrible) coach, but the face he makes for a program is subpar at best.

As a result, I'm willing to take a chance on Brad. I think he can win here.

FWIW, I will admit that Brad isn't my first choice. If Currie could hire any realistic candidate I would want him to hire Sampson.

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #83 on: March 02, 2016, 11:15:56 AM »
If Brad sucks, we just fire him, too. We are only as good as the coach we accept.

Offline pissclams

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #84 on: March 02, 2016, 11:16:14 AM »
I don't like watching cat games and hearing the broadcasters beginning to use "It's hard to win in / recruit to Manhattan" again.

the bigger issue we may have is coaches trusting in their boss
there's no doubt curr-dog threw frank and his players under the bus then threw romero under the bus and it's not a good look. 


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Offline pissclams

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #85 on: March 02, 2016, 11:19:32 AM »
If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

it's pretty amazing that you believe that.

scott drew, 14 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 36%, 0 b12 champys
bill self, 23 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 77%, 12 big 12 champys
shaka, 6 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 83%, 0 b12 champys
lon, 29 years, 16 ncaa appearances, 55%, 0 b12 champys
travis ford, 16 years, 6 ncaa appearances, 38%, 0 b12 champys
prohm, 4 years, 1 ncaa appearance, 25%, 0 b12 champys
tubby, 25 years, 17 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys
trent johnson, 17 years, 5 ncaa appearances, 29%, 0 b12 champys
huggs, 31 years, 21 ncaa appearances, 68%, 0 b12 champys

oscar is probably ahead of Johnson and even with Ford right now on my ranking of Big 12 coaches. Everyone else is ahead of him. The guy he's even with will likely get fired this year. The last 10 years is what oscar is at this level. I will give him credit for building Southern Illinois back up, but he inherited an ideal situation with his roster at Illinois. Since then, he's been a mediocre P5  (not terrible) coach, but the face he makes for a program is subpar at best.

As a result, I'm willing to take a chance on Brad. I think he can win here.

FWIW, I will admit that Brad isn't my first choice. If Currie could hire any realistic candidate I would want him to hire Sampson.

for a stats guy it's just weird that you've chosen to ignore the data that says differently.
essentially you're saying that you believe brad will be a HOF coach, because lon, seff, huggs, and tubby will all be there.


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Offline captaincrap

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #86 on: March 02, 2016, 11:20:07 AM »
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #87 on: March 02, 2016, 11:21:24 AM »
for a stats guy it's just weird that you've chosen to ignore the data that says differently.
essentially you're saying that you believe brad will be a HOF coach, because lon, seff, huggs, and tubby will all be there.

I don't remember saying that.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2016, 11:22:15 AM »
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?
Just oscar. CC is going to slam Mittie in your fat face, Rage!

Offline pissclams

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #89 on: March 02, 2016, 11:23:30 AM »
for a stats guy it's just weird that you've chosen to ignore the data that says differently.
essentially you're saying that you believe brad will be a HOF coach, because lon, seff, huggs, and tubby will all be there.

I don't remember saying that.

you said brad would do at least as good as oscar.  the coaches who've had greater success than oscar are all going to be in the hof.  ya, i'm extrapolating but


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Offline ednksu

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2016, 11:24:08 AM »
i don't want to be in a place defending oscar because i hate him but when the riptide that is goEMAW decides to throw their collective weight behind someone whom i don't believe can at least deliver the success that oscar can, we need to start objectively examining the frying pan that we find ourselves in.  and that's not what's going on here lately.

if you think so little of our program today that you feel that brad underwood is our best option over a coach who delivers ncaa bids at a near 60% rate, what do you think the perception of the program will be after pushing oscar out in short order, and then brad if he fails?  because odds are very high that he won't have the success that oscar had.

so in a period of 12-14 years we will have churned huggs, frank, oscar and brad.  if i'm an up and coming coaching prospect, i'm looking for stability and k-state isn't it.

But what is K-State basketball now? Isn't that pretty much it?

Since Hartman we've had 7 coaches in 30 years. No coach has been here longer than 6 years. Its not like we're showing to be some destination job anyway.

I'm willing to go after Brad because he has been really successful where he's at (I fully realize its in a low major conference), he has been here as an assistant recently while we were winning at a high level, AND he's got K-State ties. If he just had 2 of those 3, I wouldn't want to take a chance on him, but that given that combo I think he can have at least the same level of success as oscar can.

JMHO.
I was just thinking in response to Piss that K-State actually looks better because we wait longer than we should on coaching changes, in fact it's too stable.  I don't know enough about the years before Wooly like you two.  We know for sure Wooly was given an extra year on a hail mary.  Arguably he got 2 extra.  Huggs said he would have stayed here to retire if WVU hadn't called, if you can believe that.  Frank was long term and the exception to my point because it wasn't a stable relationship.  But that again can be directed towards something other than K-State not being a good job since he arguably took a step down to leave.  Also if fan support brings in a coach, like Underwood, it would be hard for Currie to fire him (also a bitch to hire him admittedly).  Weber is another example of a coach being here at least a year too long because fans are valuing stability and vanilla over wins and success, a recipe for mediocre success and stability.
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Offline captaincrap

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2016, 11:24:21 AM »
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2016, 11:26:03 AM »
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?
:bwpopcorn:

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2016, 11:27:02 AM »
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?

One. Firing oscar would give the opportunity for two. How often does an AD get to make more than two failed hires in a revenue-generating sport?

Offline pissclams

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #94 on: March 02, 2016, 11:27:29 AM »
P clams, just how big of a pickle is cats bball in?
no one really knows right now. 
oscar is polarizing.  his stupid crap gets forgotten when we do well, it's exemplified when we suck (the same is true about all coaches, oscar just has a larger sample size of stupid crap to pick from).


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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #95 on: March 02, 2016, 11:29:54 AM »
This will lead to Seth Greenberg.

Currie can only make so many shitty hires before he gets fired, right?

How many does he have so far?

One. Firing oscar would give the opportunity for two. How often does an AD get to make more than two failed hires in a revenue-generating sport?
Ask Missouri.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2016, 11:34:31 AM »
Saying an AD should be fired for one bad hire is rough ridin' stupid and I don't care how bad the AD is. BTW, he's definitely not a bad AD.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2016, 11:39:06 AM »
Also, I want oscar gone, but I appreciate that our AD just doesn't fire coaches left and right, like KU football, to the point where no coach wants to pick up the phone.

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #98 on: March 02, 2016, 11:41:54 AM »
The endgame of this cause if for currie to fire oscar and conduct another coaching search?

absolutely

:flush:

Could you cliffnotes your reasoning for wanting Currie fired?

No.  Cliffnotes are for cheaters.  You'll be tested on the original material.

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Offline EMAWican

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Re: firebrucewebernow.com
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2016, 11:45:10 AM »
The average worker stays at their job 4.4 years according to the BLS. So in 2 months time oscar's stay here is above average.