Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?

[8manpick]

I'm not even talking about that. I'm not even talking about anyone in particular. Some people shouldn't raise kids or have as many as they do. These are the children I feel we would be better of without.

And my point is that you don't get to play God in a vacuum. This is not a theoretical thing. The decision to abort a human being ends a human life.

I don't think we disagree on what an abortion does. We just disagree on if that matters or not. I say it doesnt. There is no human shortage. If I wasn't pulling this pallet jack around, someone else would. There is little that happens in our lives that can only be done by us. We are not snowflakes. A handful of our generation will influence more than a couple generations of our immediate family the rest of us are just biding our e til we die. Some lives are 100 years. Some are 100 seconds. Very little of either really matters. If you didn't marry your wife, someone else would. If I wasn't having rhis conversation with you I'd be having it with someone else. And likewise.

I'm kind of with SdK here. Even under the thought experiment (that I don't agree with, but understand) that an X week old fetus is a "person", I'm totally fine with that "person's" parents decision to prevent it from living.  I'm comfortable saying I don't value all lives equally.  I don't remember being a fetus, I don't think anyone really does, and I don't think there is any knowledge of loss on the fetuses part.  The only knowledge of loss of any consequence is by the parent(s) who made the decision.  The world doesn't care. It doesn't change anything. It gets weird for me since I don't have memories of being a baby, but I'm fine with drawing the line at birth, or even a little bit earlier if you want to get conservative about it.

[slobber]

I gave up on trying to read the last 200 plus comments.
My thoughts (if you give a crap):
In my case, I can tell you that I felt like there was another human the second my wife told me she thought she was pregnant. Yes, I was sad the times she told me that she wasn't. Or the time she miscarried. Was I distraught? No. A strong relationship with the baby and/or not fully knowing whether or not she was pregnant prevented me from being overly distraught. I was sad.
For those of you saying "what harm is it doing me?" Or "let people do what they want and then let God decide", my response is "whatever you do to the least, you do to me".
I am pro-life. I believe in God. I know some of you are 100% different than me in those two points, but it is part of who I am.
Go Royals!
(FTR, I have not watched the videos.)


Gonna win 'em all!

[Trim]

For those of you saying "what harm is it doing me?" Or "let people do what they want and then let God decide", my response is "whatever you do to the least, you do to me".

What are pro-choice'rs doing to whom?

I'm cool with you not having an abortion, slobber.

[slobber]

For those of you saying "what harm is it doing me?" Or "let people do what they want and then let God decide", my response is "whatever you do to the least, you do to me".

What are pro-choice'rs doing to whom?

I'm cool with you not having an abortion, slobber.

Somebody said about 300 comments ago that "somebody else having an abortion has no impact on my life so Trim3:16. "



Gonna win 'em all!

[star seed 7]

I don't get it either. So if someone you don't know is having an abortion, they are aborting you?

[Trim]

For those of you saying "what harm is it doing me?" Or "let people do what they want and then let God decide", my response is "whatever you do to the least, you do to me".

What are pro-choice'rs doing to whom?

I'm cool with you not having an abortion, slobber.

Somebody said about 300 comments ago that "somebody else having an abortion has no impact on my life so Trim3:16. "

I know that somebody said that.  I would've.  But who are the doers and "least" in your response to that and what are they "doing?"

[Yard Dog]

It's a bible quote:

Whatever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.

[Mrs. Gooch]

I gave up on trying to read the last 200 plus comments.
My thoughts (if you give a crap):
In my case, I can tell you that I felt like there was another human the second my wife told me she thought she was pregnant. Yes, I was sad the times she told me that she wasn't. Or the time she miscarried. Was I distraught? No. A strong relationship with the baby and/or not fully knowing whether or not she was pregnant prevented me from being overly distraught. I was sad.
For those of you saying "what harm is it doing me?" Or "let people do what they want and then let God decide", my response is "whatever you do to the least, you do to me".
I am pro-life. I believe in God. I know some of you are 100% different than me in those two points, but it is part of who I am.
Go Royals!
(FTR, I have not watched the videos.)


Gonna win 'em all!

Can you rephrase without quoting the bible?

[DQ12]

For those actually interested in the violinist thing, here's the he paper it came from.  It's a very famous paper in the larger abortion debate:

http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

[Mrs. Gooch]

I don't get it either. So if someone you don't know is having an abortion, they are aborting you?

No, if you abort a fetus, you are aborting Jesus.

[slobber]

I am a dumbass. That is what I am saying.


Gonna win 'em all!

[Trim]

Are anti-abortionists all running homeless shelters out of their homes and sending food to 3rd-world countries on the reg to make sure all those tangible people don't die too?

[MakeItRain]

Are anti-abortionists all running homeless shelters out of their homes and sending food to 3rd-world countries on the reg to make sure all those tangible people don't die too?

There's no money to be made from the conservative agenda setters in doing that.

[DQ12]

Are anti-abortionists all running homeless shelters out of their homes and sending food to 3rd-world countries on the reg to make sure all those tangible people don't die too?

There's no money to be made from the conservative agenda setters in doing that.

You keep alluding to this.  Care to explain?

[Dugout DickStone]

i don't see how the rape baby has any less right to appropriate the woman's body than the love baby does.

What about an "I like her okay" baby?

[star seed 7]

I don't get it either. So if someone you don't know is having an abortion, they are aborting you?

No, if you abort a fetus, you are aborting Jesus.

The Jews already did that

[slobber]

We are all God's people and if you treat somebody poorly, you are treating God poorly.


Gonna win 'em all!

[sys]

For those actually interested in the violinist thing, here's the he paper it came from.  It's a very famous paper in the larger abortion debate:

http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

i don't see how you came out of that with a rape exception.  in fact, the author specifically outlines the illogic of rape exceptions.


i like his chocolate discussion.  it fits my own preferences very well - i can view the abortion woman as thoughtless, careless, stupid, uncaring, immoral and unethical and righteously disdain her choice, but it does not follow that i have either the right or obligation to force her to choose otherwise.

[slobber]

I love the questions that are asked by differing view points in this thread. Mostly they are asked in a "by the way, you are a dumbass" sort of way. (By people from both sides of any argument.)


Gonna win 'em all!

[sys]

i don't see how the rape baby has any less right to appropriate the woman's body than the love baby does.

What about an "I like her okay" baby?

sorry, lust baby, you have no right to use that woman's body.

[sys]

We are all God's people and if you treat somebody poorly, you are treating God poorly.

fortunately, when you mistreat god, the least of us suffer not a whit.

[Trim]

For those actually interested in the violinist thing, here's the he paper it came from.  It's a very famous paper in the larger abortion debate:

http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

i don't see how you came out of that with a rape exception.  in fact, the author specifically outlines the illogic of rape exceptions.

I only read the wikipedia entry about it and took away that a rape exception is what anti-abortion readers say is the only thing that the violinist example can support, because it's that the violinist and/or the other guy had something bad done to him unwillingly.

[Trim]

Man, there's gonna be a lot of crap to be talked on this blog when we're all dead.

[slobber]

For those of you saying "what harm is it doing me?" Or "let people do what they want and then let God decide", my response is "whatever you do to the least, you do to me".

What are pro-choice'rs doing to whom?

I'm cool with you not having an abortion, slobber.

Somebody said about 300 comments ago that "somebody else having an abortion has no impact on my life so Trim3:16. "

I know that somebody said that.  I would've.  But who are the doers and "least" in your response to that and what are they "doing?"

I am sure you must have a point to this, but I will :takethebait:
Using the relevant example of not standing up for an unborn baby when somebody else chooses to have an abortion: the unborn baby would be the least, in that they are not able to speak for themselves or defend themselves. Me, by being a 3rd party person, should try to help the baby. I am not the person that is with child.


Gonna win 'em all!

[DQ12]

For those actually interested in the violinist thing, here's the he paper it came from.  It's a very famous paper in the larger abortion debate:

http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

i don't see how you came out of that with a rape exception.  in fact, the author specifically outlines the illogic of rape exceptions.


i like his chocolate discussion.  it fits my own preferences very well - i can view the abortion woman as thoughtless, careless, stupid, uncaring, immoral and unethical and righteously disdain her choice, but it does not follow that i have either the right or obligation to force her to choose otherwise.

Again, a couple things:  first, I didn't come out of it with a rape exception. I said that a paper I read years ago posited a pretty good argument based on that hypothetical. 

Second, I think she factors rape into the wrong side of the moral calculus.  I don't think a fetus that is a product of rape is inherently any less valuable.  But I think that there's something to be said for the idea that when a person is raped (Or "kidnapped" in the hypothetical) then the situation they're out into is due to no fault of their own, therefore increasing their moral position (relative to someone who voluntarily has sex).  Like I said, I don't think it tilts the scale in favor of the woman's rights (compared to the fetus), but I think it's closer.  This is what I meant when I said rape complicates things.