Is Planned Hamburger more important than the entire good of America?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Do I feel the world would be better if some people were never born? Yes.

Do you think the world would be better if certain people were murdered right now?

No.

Really?  Not even like, someone who was going to rape or murder or do something truly horrible to someone tomorrow?

I'll skip ahead -- obviously the world would be better if certain people were never born, or were murdered.  That's not (or at least shouldn't be) contentious.  But just because saying the world would've been better if Hitler or some future criminal was aborted or murdered isn't a good argument for legalizing abortion or murder in all circumstances.

What he said, exactly.

[steve dave]

Dlew, others, non religious reason to be anti abortion at any point? As opposed to most I'm not looking to trap anyone or do any other stupid crap, just curious what it would be.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Ksu, your argument is flawed in that an aborted fetus will never miss what it never had. Life.

Ok. New exercise. Go up to that kid and say: "Looking at you makes me very sad. I wish you had been aborted. You never would have known the difference." I hope that kid is old enough to punch you in the face, or at least kick you in the balls.

[SdK]

I'm not even talking about that. I'm not even talking about anyone in particular. Some people shouldn't raise kids or have as many as they do. These are the children I feel we would be better of without.

[Trim]

I just don't care how Jane Doe's pregnancy plays out.

[SdK]

Ksu, your argument is flawed in that an aborted fetus will never miss what it never had. Life.

Ok. New exercise. Go up to that kid and say: "Looking at you makes me very sad. I wish you had been aborted. You never would have known the difference." I hope that kid is old enough to punch you in the face, or at least kick you in the balls.

That's a cruel thing to say, man.

[DQ12]

Dlew, others, non religious reason to be anti abortion at any point? As opposed to most I'm not looking to trap anyone or do any other stupid crap, just curious what it would be.

I think if you believe that there's such a thing as "right" or "wrong," it's at least rational to be anti abortion.  At it's heart, it's a pretty simple argument:

1.  I think killing people is wrong.
2.  I think abortion is "killing people."
3.  I think abortion is wrong.

Step 2 is the only part in the general abortion debate that's worth discussing imo.  If step two is true, then, as insensitive as it sounds, I don't really give a crap about women's rights about the subject, or the burden on society.  I will say that there are decent arguments about rape that exist, and in those circumstances, things get very complicated.

That being said, I happen to fall on the side that Step 2 is true.  I understand how people could fall on the other side, and I respect that.  But I think they're wrong, and I think it's important.

[Tobias]

i don't think "why?  i was convinced that thing in my uterus was going to get birf'd and go on to kill millions of jews - you fuckers are welcome" would show up in any meaningful quantity at an abortion clinic exit poll

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I'm not even talking about that. I'm not even talking about anyone in particular. Some people shouldn't raise kids or have as many as they do. These are the children I feel we would be better of without.

And my point is that you don't get to play God in a vacuum. This is not a theoretical thing. The decision to abort a human being ends a human life.

[sys]

Dlew, others, non religious reason to be anti abortion at any point? As opposed to most I'm not looking to trap anyone or do any other stupid crap, just curious what it would be.

whatever your non-religious reasons are for being anti-murder, they pretty much should apply.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Dlew, others, non religious reason to be anti abortion at any point? As opposed to most I'm not looking to trap anyone or do any other stupid crap, just curious what it would be.

whatever your non-religious reasons are for being anti-murder, they pretty much should apply.

Sys - I thought you were pro-choice? You seem to be saying what I'm saying.

[DQ12]

Dlew, others, non religious reason to be anti abortion at any point? As opposed to most I'm not looking to trap anyone or do any other stupid crap, just curious what it would be.

whatever your non-religious reasons are for being anti-murder, they pretty much should apply.

Sys - I thought you were pro-choice? You seem to be saying what I'm saying.

You're allowed to acknowledge that the other side has reasonable arguments, even if you disagree.

[sys]

Sys - I thought you were pro-choice? You seem to be saying what I'm saying.

i place a very high value on personal liberty.  and probably value human life a little less than most people.

[Trim]

[SdK]

I'm not even talking about that. I'm not even talking about anyone in particular. Some people shouldn't raise kids or have as many as they do. These are the children I feel we would be better of without.

And my point is that you don't get to play God in a vacuum. This is not a theoretical thing. The decision to abort a human being ends a human life.

I don't think we disagree on what an abortion does. We just disagree on if that matters or not. I say it doesnt. There is no human shortage. If I wasn't pulling this pallet jack around, someone else would. There is little that happens in our lives that can only be done by us. We are not snowflakes. A handful of our generation will influence more than a couple generations of our immediate family the rest of us are just biding our e til we die. Some lives are 100 years. Some are 100 seconds. Very little of either really matters. If you didn't marry your wife, someone else would. If I wasn't having rhis conversation with you I'd be having it with someone else. And likewise.

[sys]

 

[Tobias]

holy crap

[Tobias]

is that a real cemetery or an arbitrary cemetery?

[Trim]

is that a real cemetery or an arbitrary cemetery?

I was gonna have some crosses on the little hill too but thought it might be too inflammatory.

[SdK]

and I don't want to have this conversation anymore. TBH the thought of death scares the crap out of me. I'm out.

[star seed 7]

I'm a step 2 false'r

I understand the step 2 truthers, but I think they're wrong.

[star seed 7]

Also probably a little sys mixed in

[star seed 7]

I just wish people were more responsible. Looked at pregnancy and safe sex as a serious matter. I wish there weren't so many pregnancies and I wish there weren't so many abortions. I wish that children were planned for the most part and raised by parents that do the best they can and put their children first. Nothing saddens me more than seeing obese, unclean, uneducated, or impoverished children. In fact, it pisses me off a lot. I guess I comfort myself with thinking that maybe abortion is preventing more children from continuing the cycle. That's probably wrong.

Yes, it's wrong. Try this (not really - it's a rhetorical exercise): Next time you see one of those kids in poverty, walk up and ask them "Gosh, looking at you makes me feel really sad. Would you prefer to have been ripped limb from limb in your mom's belly and discarded as trash or sold for scrap?"

What scope do you look at the world in? In seems very narrow.

If it is narrow-minded to believe that it is wrong to decide a child is better off dead than poor, then consider the blinders firmly on.

The reason I am wrecking so many of these libtarded arguments with such relative ease is that I've actually thought deeply about the issue, considering the arguments both pro and con. It's clear that many here have not.

You know what? The rhetorical exercise didn't work for you, so go ahead and try what I suggested. Report back how that works out for you.

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I just wish people were more responsible. Looked at pregnancy and safe sex as a serious matter. I wish there weren't so many pregnancies and I wish there weren't so many abortions. I wish that children were planned for the most part and raised by parents that do the best they can and put their children first. Nothing saddens me more than seeing obese, unclean, uneducated, or impoverished children. In fact, it pisses me off a lot. I guess I comfort myself with thinking that maybe abortion is preventing more children from continuing the cycle. That's probably wrong.

Yes, it's wrong. Try this (not really - it's a rhetorical exercise): Next time you see one of those kids in poverty, walk up and ask them "Gosh, looking at you makes me feel really sad. Would you prefer to have been ripped limb from limb in your mom's belly and discarded as trash or sold for scrap?"

What scope do you look at the world in? In seems very narrow.

If it is narrow-minded to believe that it is wrong to decide a child is better off dead than poor, then consider the blinders firmly on.

The reason I am wrecking so many of these libtarded arguments with such relative ease is that I've actually thought deeply about the issue, considering the arguments both pro and con. It's clear that many here have not.

You know what? The rhetorical exercise didn't work for you, so go ahead and try what I suggested. Report back how that works out for you.

 

Welp, I can't argue with an You've stumped me.

[michigancat]

Dlew, others, non religious reason to be anti abortion at any point? As opposed to most I'm not looking to trap anyone or do any other stupid crap, just curious what it would be.

I think if you believe that there's such a thing as "right" or "wrong," it's at least rational to be anti abortion.  At it's heart, it's a pretty simple argument:

1.  I think killing people is wrong.
2.  I think abortion is "killing people."
3.  I think abortion is wrong.

Step 2 is the only part in the general abortion debate that's worth discussing imo.  If step two is true, then, as insensitive as it sounds, I don't really give a crap about women's rights about the subject, or the burden on society.  I will say that there are decent arguments about rape that exist, and in those circumstances, things get very complicated.

That being said, I happen to fall on the side that Step 2 is true.  I understand how people could fall on the other side, and I respect that.  But I think they're wrong, and I think it's important.

How can you justify an exception for rape if you truly believe in #2?