How big a deal is a bad year?

[kso_FAN]

if the fan base cares about k-state basketball, then i don't see why they wouldn't continue to support the team through an occasional down year, or even a string of them. my god, it's manhattan, kansas. what else is there to do once or twice a week during the winter?

seth child cinemas? a nice leisurely stroll down poyntz avenue? dinner at harry's?

the sense of entitlement is and always has been hilarious to me. this is a competitive sport and k-state is competing at the highest of levels. again, this year's big 12 is rated the fourth-toughest conference in the last 15 years. every school is trying to hire the best coaches, every school is trying to build better facilities, every school is trying to recruit at the highest level nationally. and k-state, because of its geography, is always going to be at a competitive disadvantage.

winning is hard.

Good points. I agree that often the sense of entitlement is pretty ridiculous, but that's across the board for college sports.

It's not a sense of entitlement. It's wanting to compete for titles and win games. That is what competition is all about.

Yeah, I get that and agree, but its both.

[#LIFE]

What was our HCA like through Asbury and Wooly?

 many fans have an interest in maintaining the momentum that has been built over the last decade.

This is all I ever wanted from oscar. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

[Trim]

What was our HCA like through Asbury and Wooly?

i was only around for the final wooly season, and it was terrible.

i'm not a k-state fan, don't know the history, don't care about the history, and don't have a strong understanding (clearly!) of the fan base. but i've observed that a certain level of pride in k-state hoops has been restored in recent years, and it seems to me that many fans have an interest in maintaining the momentum that has been built over the last decade.

as usual, fans will threaten to stay at home if the team stinks, which would be fine if the school was located in miami or san diego or somewhere else competing for your hard-earned entertainment dollars. but k-state is located in manhattan, quite possibly the most boring place on earth, but nonetheless a town that cares about the local university. there's no excuse for the level of fan apathy that was seen during the asbury and wooly years...and it would be a shame if the same occurs in the future.

You're focusing on attendance, and while that will go down, I think the bigger impact will be on the atmosphere created by those in the fOOD.  The OOD rage was motivated not just by the success of the team, but the style of the program.

And yeah, most of us would pick fOOD over movie given those 2 choices.  But there's also booze.

[j rake]

You're focusing on attendance, and while that will go down, I think the bigger impact will be on the atmosphere created by those in the fOOD.  The OOD rage was motivated not just by the success of the team, but the style of the program.

And yeah, most of us would pick fOOD over movie given those 2 choices.  But there's also booze.

frank lost 12 conference home games in five years against a league that was far less competitive than the big 12 oscar is competing in, and yet, with less talented teams, oscar has lost just four conference home games in three seasons.

i know that the rage and anger was fun for fans, but to the players on the floor, i think noise is noise - and the atmosphere during the oscar era to date has helped provide them with a sufficient amount of on-court energy.

[pissclams]

as you know, the answer to your question is that "how big of a deal" is different in every situation.
i think one of the biggest determinants in understanding how recoverable the program is, is what players are coming in to fix the problems that the current team is experiencing.  i really think this team is a serviceable PG and a big man away having what most would have considered an acceptable season.  PG in the b12 is tough and i don't think it's fair to expect a freshman to lead a team out of a 19 loss season.  we will need to find a juco.  DJamer will be back, hurt will have another year under him.  we will be better next year, no doubt.

our non-con schedule is going to be easier next season too.

These are all good points, although I'm not confident we will be better next year. Our record will certainly be better. I see DJamer mentioned quite a bit and I don't know what people expect of him but I would judge him a success if he averaged 6 and 6. He was 3 and 3 last season and I think there is reason to believe that he won't ever fully recover from his injury. The fact that he couldn't play this season is troubling to me.

i think the biggest impact that DJamer could have had this season is taking the doubles off of gip.  DJamer's not so skilled offensively that he demands a lot of attention but he is active on the boards and teams would pay for not having a man on him all the time.  he and hurt will have to work well together next season.  so i guess, i feel like his impact is more felt in the numbers of his teammates than his own.

[Trim]

Yeah, I can't disagree that maybe oscar has something going with the players where they do better when getting to sleep at home or something that is independent of the in-fOOD atmosphere.

Saturday could be a look into what next year's crowd could be like.

[MakeItRain]

as you know, the answer to your question is that "how big of a deal" is different in every situation.
i think one of the biggest determinants in understanding how recoverable the program is, is what players are coming in to fix the problems that the current team is experiencing.  i really think this team is a serviceable PG and a big man away having what most would have considered an acceptable season.  PG in the b12 is tough and i don't think it's fair to expect a freshman to lead a team out of a 19 loss season.  we will need to find a juco.  DJamer will be back, hurt will have another year under him.  we will be better next year, no doubt.

our non-con schedule is going to be easier next season too.

These are all good points, although I'm not confident we will be better next year. Our record will certainly be better. I see DJamer mentioned quite a bit and I don't know what people expect of him but I would judge him a success if he averaged 6 and 6. He was 3 and 3 last season and I think there is reason to believe that he won't ever fully recover from his injury. The fact that he couldn't play this season is troubling to me.

i think the biggest impact that DJamer could have had this season is taking the doubles off of gip.  DJamer's not so skilled offensively that he demands a lot of attention but he is active on the boards and teams would pay for not having a man on him all the time.  he and hurt will have to work well together next season.  so i guess, i feel like his impact is more felt in the numbers of his teammates than his own.

I don't think they will see the floor together. oscar didn't play DJamer on the floor with Gip or JO his first two years, just as he refuses to play Bolden with Gip and Hurt this year.

[MakeItRain]

k-state's equalizer is its home court, which ranks top 3 in the league. not only has oscar only lost four big 12 games at home in three seasons, he's exceeded expectations in 16 of 25 of them (covering the spread is an objective measure of expectations).

it's clear that oscar's teams reach their motivational ceiling fairly consistently at home. if he can ever figure out how to get players to perform with the same intensity on the road, this program has a chance to hold its own in a league where they'll rarely have a talent advantage.

Are you presuming the HCA will stay as is through the program's decline?

if the fan base cares about k-state basketball, then i don't see why they wouldn't continue to support the team through an occasional down year, or even a string of them. my god, it's manhattan, kansas. what else is there to do once or twice a week during the winter?

seth child cinemas? a nice leisurely stroll down poyntz avenue? dinner at harry's?

the sense of entitlement is and always has been hilarious to me. this is a competitive sport and k-state is competing at the highest of levels. again, this year's big 12 is rated the fourth-toughest conference in the last 15 years. every school is trying to hire the best coaches, every school is trying to build better facilities, every school is trying to recruit at the highest level nationally. and k-state, because of its geography, is always going to be at a competitive disadvantage.

winning is hard.

GTFO, we're competing against Morgantown, Ames, Lawrence, Stillwater, Lubbock, and Waco; give me a break with this crap. And sense of entitlement is also a load of crap, there is no such thing as having unrealistic expectations. Fan bases that expect more from their programs are ALWAYS better and more attractive to coaches than the alternative. Every single successful long term college program in every single sport have one thing in common, the fans and boosters absolutely refuse to accept mediocrity. There is no reason for Alabama football, Oklahoma football, Kentucky basketball, UCLA basketball, UNC basketball etc to be as good as they are, they have no built in advantage over their peers. At some point a coach taught them how to win and the fans, boosters, and administration did not accept anything less. All of those programs had points where they fell and they all spared no expenses in fixing it and got them fixed. A sense of entitlement is wanting results but to not be willing to do what it takes to get those results. Bitching about oscar Weber and then supporting the program financially is not doing what it takes to correct the situation.

[Mr Bread]

as you know, the answer to your question is that "how big of a deal" is different in every situation.
i think one of the biggest determinants in understanding how recoverable the program is, is what players are coming in to fix the problems that the current team is experiencing.  i really think this team is a serviceable PG and a big man away having what most would have considered an acceptable season.  PG in the b12 is tough and i don't think it's fair to expect a freshman to lead a team out of a 19 loss season.  we will need to find a juco.  DJamer will be back, hurt will have another year under him.  we will be better next year, no doubt.

our non-con schedule is going to be easier next season too.

These are all good points, although I'm not confident we will be better next year. Our record will certainly be better. I see DJamer mentioned quite a bit and I don't know what people expect of him but I would judge him a success if he averaged 6 and 6. He was 3 and 3 last season and I think there is reason to believe that he won't ever fully recover from his injury. The fact that he couldn't play this season is troubling to me.

i think the biggest impact that DJamer could have had this season is taking the doubles off of gip.  DJamer's not so skilled offensively that he demands a lot of attention but he is active on the boards and teams would pay for not having a man on him all the time.  he and hurt will have to work well together next season.  so i guess, i feel like his impact is more felt in the numbers of his teammates than his own.

I don't think they will see the floor together. oscar didn't play DJamer on the floor with Gip or JO his first two years, just as he refuses to play Bolden with Gip and Hurt this year.

Yeah, last season DJamer exclusively spelled Gip, particularly at the end of the season.

[j rake]

And sense of entitlement is also a load of crap, there is no such thing as having unrealistic expectations. Fan bases that expect more from their programs are ALWAYS better and more attractive to coaches than the alternative. Every single successful long term college program in every single sport have one thing in common, the fans and boosters absolutely refuse to accept mediocrity.

http://es.pn/1AmwCVw

[pissclams]

as you know, the answer to your question is that "how big of a deal" is different in every situation.
i think one of the biggest determinants in understanding how recoverable the program is, is what players are coming in to fix the problems that the current team is experiencing.  i really think this team is a serviceable PG and a big man away having what most would have considered an acceptable season.  PG in the b12 is tough and i don't think it's fair to expect a freshman to lead a team out of a 19 loss season.  we will need to find a juco.  DJamer will be back, hurt will have another year under him.  we will be better next year, no doubt.

our non-con schedule is going to be easier next season too.

These are all good points, although I'm not confident we will be better next year. Our record will certainly be better. I see DJamer mentioned quite a bit and I don't know what people expect of him but I would judge him a success if he averaged 6 and 6. He was 3 and 3 last season and I think there is reason to believe that he won't ever fully recover from his injury. The fact that he couldn't play this season is troubling to me.

i think the biggest impact that DJamer could have had this season is taking the doubles off of gip.  DJamer's not so skilled offensively that he demands a lot of attention but he is active on the boards and teams would pay for not having a man on him all the time.  he and hurt will have to work well together next season.  so i guess, i feel like his impact is more felt in the numbers of his teammates than his own.

I don't think they will see the floor together. oscar didn't play DJamer on the floor with Gip or JO his first two years, just as he refuses to play Bolden with Gip and Hurt this year.

Yeah, last season DJamer exclusively spelled Gip, particularly at the end of the season.

gip had shane last season.  the double teams have killed our inside game this season, it's not unreasonable to think King DeBruce would utilize DJamer in an effort to increase gips production.

[Mr Bread]

I don't think DJamer would have had the same effect that Shane did for a variety of reasons.  DJamer can only exist in the lane.  So he's parked there 24/7/365 along with his man further clogging up the lane.  I don't see that assisting Gip and his double-team issues. 

I mean there are two more big guys standing around right where he wants to do his stuff.  That's not helpful. 

[MakeItRain]

And sense of entitlement is also a load of crap, there is no such thing as having unrealistic expectations. Fan bases that expect more from their programs are ALWAYS better and more attractive to coaches than the alternative. Every single successful long term college program in every single sport have one thing in common, the fans and boosters absolutely refuse to accept mediocrity.

http://es.pn/1AmwCVw

That kind of proves my point. Nebraska settled for something less than what they were accustomed to and they ended up with Mike Riley, they should have crap canned Bo long before they did and if they didn't switch conferences they may have. I do think they should have fired Solich, it was obvious that he fell behind K-State and Texas and if he didn't fall behind Mizzou it was very close to happening. Although the standard at Nebraska is lower, there is absolutely no way that Mike Riley will get the rope that Bo did.

[kso_FAN]

DJamer would have had more impact on the defensive end than offense and he would have helped this team.

[j rake]

That kind of proves my point. Nebraska settled for something less than what they were accustomed to and they ended up with Mike Riley, they should have crap canned Bo long before they did and if they didn't switch conferences they may have. I do think they should have fired Solich, it was obvious that he fell behind K-State and Texas and if he didn't fall behind Mizzou it was very close to happening. Although the standard at Nebraska is lower, there is absolutely no way that Mike Riley will get the rope that Bo did.

what good coach expressed interest in the nebraska job, before or after bo pelini?

also, why is steve "NIT" alford the coach at ucla?

[0.42]

Jesus. One bad season and some of the elites start re-accepting the "can't recruit to/win in Manhattan" meme as if Ames, Stillwater, Lubbock, and Waco don't rough ridin' exist.

[kso_FAN]

Jesus. One bad season and some of the elites start re-accepting the "can't recruit to/win in Manhattan" meme as if Ames, Stillwater, and Waco don't rough ridin' exist.

Who is accepting that?

[Rage Against the McKee]

That kind of proves my point. Nebraska settled for something less than what they were accustomed to and they ended up with Mike Riley, they should have crap canned Bo long before they did and if they didn't switch conferences they may have. I do think they should have fired Solich, it was obvious that he fell behind K-State and Texas and if he didn't fall behind Mizzou it was very close to happening. Although the standard at Nebraska is lower, there is absolutely no way that Mike Riley will get the rope that Bo did.

what good coach expressed interest in the nebraska job, before or after bo pelini?

also, why is steve "NIT" alford the coach at ucla?

Nebraska would have had no trouble hiring Scott Frost or Jim Tressel. They just have too many fans with the same mindset you have, leading them to keep Bo for far too long and embrace the Riley hire.

[Mr Bread]

DJamer would have had more impact on the defensive end than offense and he would have helped this team.

Definitely.  Do you think he would have played with Gip and would have helped Gip on offense?

[kso_FAN]

DJamer would have had more impact on the defensive end than offense and he would have helped this team.

Definitely.  Do you think he would have played with Gip and would have helped Gip on offense?

Yes. I don't think oscar is that dumb.

[MakeItRain]

That kind of proves my point. Nebraska settled for something less than what they were accustomed to and they ended up with Mike Riley, they should have crap canned Bo long before they did and if they didn't switch conferences they may have. I do think they should have fired Solich, it was obvious that he fell behind K-State and Texas and if he didn't fall behind Mizzou it was very close to happening. Although the standard at Nebraska is lower, there is absolutely no way that Mike Riley will get the rope that Bo did.

what good coach expressed interest in the nebraska job, before or after bo pelini?

also, why is steve "NIT" alford the coach at ucla?

How much longer do you think Steve Alford will be at UCLA? They all hate him there and no one goes to games, he was on the hot seat the second he was hired. Do you even remember what your original point was? I didn't say these schools don't miss, I said they just don't say "oh well everyone loses, go team" when they do.

http://www.nbcsports.com/college-basketball/alfords-already-hot-seat-ucla

[Mr Bread]

DJamer would have had more impact on the defensive end than offense and he would have helped this team.

Definitely.  Do you think he would have played with Gip and would have helped Gip on offense?

Yes. I don't think oscar is that dumb.

How does DJamer help Gip on offense exactly?  I don't see it.  I'm that dumb.  It seems obvious to me he wouldn't. 

Can't shoot, doesn't have post-moves.  Must be in the paint.  Him rebounding Gip's misses is helping Gip on offense?  Is that it?

[Mr Bread]

DJamer would have had more impact on the defensive end than offense and he would have helped this team.

Definitely.  Do you think he would have played with Gip and would have helped Gip on offense?

Yes. I don't think oscar is that dumb.

How does DJamer help Gip on offense exactly?  I don't see it.  I'm that dumb.  It seems obvious to me he wouldn't. 

Can't shoot, doesn't have post-moves.  Must be in the paint.  Him rebounding Gip's misses is helping Gip on offense?  Is that it?

Also, I don't believe oscar has ever played two post-players together that were bruisers who couldn't shoot.  Literally. 

[j rake]

Nebraska would have had no trouble hiring Scott Frost or Jim Tressel. They just have too many fans with the same mindset you have, leading them to keep Bo for far too long and embrace the Riley hire.

well, tressel has a five-year show-cause, and frost interviewed for the tulsa job (and didn't get it), but if you say so.

again, i'm all for k-state fans having high expectations. but for now, k-state hoops is probably the 35th best job in the country, meaning the top 34 coaches...all things being equal...would probably prefer to be elsewhere; and the up-and-coming coaches with aspirations of becoming great coaches will likely use k-state as a stepping stone to better jobs in better locations.

[Mr Bread]

Nebraska would have had no trouble hiring Scott Frost or Jim Tressel. They just have too many fans with the same mindset you have, leading them to keep Bo for far too long and embrace the Riley hire.

well, tressel has a five-year show-cause, and frost interviewed for the tulsa job (and didn't get it), but if you say so.

again, i'm all for k-state fans having high expectations. but for now, k-state hoops is probably the 45th best job in the country, meaning the top 44 coaches...all things being equal...would probably prefer to be elsewhere; and the up-and-coming coaches with aspirations of becoming great coaches will likely use k-state as a stepping stone to better jobs in better locations.

How did you reach that number?