Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 5084089 times)

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Offline PIPE

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25000 on: July 25, 2013, 09:22:25 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I've tried, no one wants to talk about it.

I'll play.......whats the new news??? About what Bolsby or whatever the commish said during media days???
Awaiting the inevitable KITN

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25001 on: July 25, 2013, 09:45:56 PM »
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25002 on: July 25, 2013, 09:53:50 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25003 on: July 25, 2013, 10:08:47 PM »
1001 BABY!!!

:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:
3 yrs coming for this, so let's celebrate!!!! :cheers: to all

I NEVER DREAMED WE'D HAVE MORE THAN 1000 PAGES ON THIS THREAD ON THIS BLOG BUT WOW NOW WE HAVE 1001!!!! THIS IS GREAT I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! REMEMBER PAGE 456? THOSE WERE GOOD TIMES! REMEMBER PAGE 764? THAT WAS A GOOD TIME TOO! I WONDER IF WE'LL EVER GET PAST 1001? PROBABLY TOMORROW OR A LITTLE LATER TONIGHT! GO CATS!                                                                                    :lynchmob: :lynchmob: :lynchmob:

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25004 on: July 25, 2013, 10:45:17 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Synchronized power play by the rich to get richer.  Shamelessly doing so in the name of paying (or throwing crumbs to) players.  And only doing that as a preemptive measure to the O'Bannon case.   

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130725/college-sports-braces-for-more-change/?sct=cf_t11_a0

Offline Pete

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Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25005 on: July 26, 2013, 01:42:11 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Synchronized power play by the rich to get richer.  Shamelessly doing so in the name of paying (or throwing crumbs to) players.  And only doing that as a preemptive measure to the O'Bannon case.   

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130725/college-sports-braces-for-more-change/?sct=cf_t11_a0

I like the parts about crap small schools no longer getting a "say" in how the power conferences do things.  I see that as a positive.

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25006 on: July 26, 2013, 02:21:06 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Synchronized power play by the rich to get richer.  Shamelessly doing so in the name of paying (or throwing crumbs to) players.  And only doing that as a preemptive measure to the O'Bannon case.   

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130725/college-sports-braces-for-more-change/?sct=cf_t11_a0

I like the parts about crap small schools no longer getting a "say" in how the power conferences do things.  I see that as a positive.

You mean the greed?

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25007 on: July 26, 2013, 03:27:08 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Synchronized power play by the rich to get richer.  Shamelessly doing so in the name of paying (or throwing crumbs to) players.  And only doing that as a preemptive measure to the O'Bannon case.   

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130725/college-sports-braces-for-more-change/?sct=cf_t11_a0

I like the parts about crap small schools no longer getting a "say" in how the power conferences do things.  I see that as a positive.

I disagree with Thamel that nearly every football conference is coming over.  I think it will be less than that.

I think the other 5 conferences will have internal conversations about who jumps and who doesn't.  I think consolidation will occur from there.  Maybe 80-100 teams ultimately make the jump.  Those that don't will bounce down to FCS.

John Infante had a really good piece out there in 2011. (http://www.ncaa.org/blog/2011/05/what-full-cost-of-attendance-really-means/)  I think what ultimately happens is that most of the non-BCS conferences will move forward, but some may drop a school or two.  But those will probably pick up a school or two that needs a ride to Division 4.

Then some of the more profitable non-football conferences can/will make the jump.

Then we'll just have D1A and D1AA again, and one will pay the COA and one won't.  You expand the NCAA tournament to 96 teams, let teams from both divisions participate, and you can hash out the non-revenue sports however you like.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25008 on: July 26, 2013, 03:32:39 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Synchronized power play by the rich to get richer.  Shamelessly doing so in the name of paying (or throwing crumbs to) players.  And only doing that as a preemptive measure to the O'Bannon case.   

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130725/college-sports-braces-for-more-change/?sct=cf_t11_a0

I like the parts about crap small schools no longer getting a "say" in how the power conferences do things.  I see that as a positive.

You mean the greed?

What purpose do the MAC and Sun Belt really serve today?  They're making money at the highest division of college football, taking beatings in the non-con and siphoning off playoff revenues for which they don't contribute.  I enjoy watching their games, but I'd still enjoy watching them at the FCS level just as much.

This is a reorganization that should help a lot of those schools redefine their athletic mission and be more competitive with similar institutions.  With the acceleration in revenue for the large conferences, this was going to happen at some point.  It is the natural evolution.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25009 on: July 26, 2013, 03:41:15 PM »
There's currently news on this subject and no one is discussing it, which is fitting because people discussed the crap out of this stuff when there was no actual news.

I would appreciate it if you posted it, and if you sponsored quality conversation on the subject, friend.

Synchronized power play by the rich to get richer.  Shamelessly doing so in the name of paying (or throwing crumbs to) players.  And only doing that as a preemptive measure to the O'Bannon case.   

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130725/college-sports-braces-for-more-change/?sct=cf_t11_a0

I like the parts about crap small schools no longer getting a "say" in how the power conferences do things.  I see that as a positive.

You mean the greed?

What purpose do the MAC and Sun Belt really serve today?  They're making money at the highest division of college football, taking beatings in the non-con and siphoning off playoff revenues for which they don't contribute.  I enjoy watching their games, but I'd still enjoy watching them at the FCS level just as much.

This is a reorganization that should help a lot of those schools redefine their athletic mission and be more competitive with similar institutions.  With the acceleration in revenue for the large conferences, this was going to happen at some point.  It is the natural evolution.

They allow thousands of kids the opportunity to play football at the highest level against the top schools in America in nonconference play. It's just part of what makes college athletics so great. The playing field is anything but level, but if these schools wish to play at the highest level, they should be allowed to do so. Let's not act like the large schools are doing them some favor by kicking them down to the lower division. If they wanted to be there, they would never have moved up to division 1.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25010 on: July 26, 2013, 03:46:33 PM »
Keep it up boys! Almost 1002!
:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25011 on: July 26, 2013, 04:07:01 PM »
They allow thousands of kids the opportunity to play football at the highest level against the top schools in America in nonconference play. It's just part of what makes college athletics so great. The playing field is anything but level, but if these schools wish to play at the highest level, they should be allowed to do so. Let's not act like the large schools are doing them some favor by kicking them down to the lower division. If they wanted to be there, they would never have moved up to division 1.

They will most likely still get to play against them in non-conference play, and in this reality, they could compete for national titles in FCS in football and compete in the NCAA tournament like they do today.

It's not like we're going to be doing a lot of 2:1 in Toledo with nine game conference schedules going forward.  If anything, there's going to be a lot of 1:1 between the Big 5 and a "buy" game with old MAC and Sun Belt schools.

Not much is really going to change.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25012 on: July 26, 2013, 04:14:30 PM »
If kids really cared about playing for FCS championships, then they would be choosing FCS schools over Sun Belt, MAC, Mountain West, and Big East schools. This does not happen because those kids would rather lose at the highest level than win at a level that is completely irrelevant. You aren't doing those kids a favor by dropping them down to a lower level and then letting them play in some playoff of losers for a "national championship".

Offline scottwildcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25013 on: July 26, 2013, 04:15:13 PM »
If kids really cared about playing for FCS championships, then they would be choosing FCS schools over Sun Belt, MAC, Mountain West, and Big East schools. This does not happen because those kids would rather lose at the highest level than win at a level that is completely irrelevant. You aren't doing those kids a favor by dropping them down to a lower level and then letting them play in some playoff of losers for a "national championship".

BOOM

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25014 on: July 26, 2013, 04:50:53 PM »
If kids really cared about playing for FCS championships, then they would be choosing FCS schools over Sun Belt, MAC, Mountain West, and Big East schools. This does not happen because those kids would rather lose at the highest level than win at a level that is completely irrelevant. You aren't doing those kids a favor by dropping them down to a lower level and then letting them play in some playoff of losers for a "national championship".

But the problem is that D1 is too bloated, and they've made it such a huge umbrella that schools with no business competing at this level are doing so.

Look at the database (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1) and sort by subsidy.  Look at the asinine amount of schools taking millions from the university to fund D1 athletic departments.  Louisville was/is the most successful non-Power 5 school (at this moment), and they take an 11.5% subsidy.  After them?  UConn.  Then, at third, Fresno St. pops in with a 27.8% subsidy.  Boise St. is right after them.

To compete at this "highest level" public schools are passing millions over to athletic departments just to compete at the mid-major level.  We've reached a point, right or wrong, where we're reaching a critical mass between these subsidies and secondary education funding.  The cat is out of the bag, and there's no turning back now.

At this point, honestly, the best thing is for those schools that can sustain this kind of level be allowed to do so, and those that can't should be relegated down to a division where they aren't forcing public universities to send millions to the AD to support an unsustainable athletic department.  For example, in 2011, UMKC made about $1.5 million in ticket sales, donations, conference distribution, and licensing.  They spent over $11 million dollars. Even though they took over $7.2 million in student fees and university money that year, they still had a $2 million shortfall.  There is absolutely no reason why UMKC should be in the same NCAA division as KSU.  Hell, we took almost $5 million LESS from students and the university than they did.  And we have a BCS football program for Christ's sakes.

Look, I get that people take issue with college athletics losing it's soul to the almighty dollar.  But so many of these schools can't pay their bills.  For those that can, they need to be allowed to govern themselves and write rules that are best for their institutions, and those that can't afford to keep up with them need to be creating associations and making decisions based on their ability to properly fund athletics.

Offline Dub

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25015 on: July 26, 2013, 05:36:14 PM »
College football is great because of the violent, competitive, man-child vs man-child, larger than life teams going up against each other in games that matter, not because it gives a lot of players a chance to play at the top level.

Reality sucks, and so do players at small confy's.  Send them packing down.  Is it doing them a favor?  Who cares?

I want the football I watch to be big time players, at big time schools, playing big time games every single week.

Who cares if its about the money?  That's America.  I say pay all players equally throughout the big confy's, make 4 years mandatory, and then sit back and watch fantastic football games every single week leading up a playoff of behemoth proportions.

Offline wiley

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25016 on: July 26, 2013, 05:40:06 PM »
The fact that South Alabama, can go from no program to having a program and 2 years later competing at a D1 level will forever boggle my mind.  When i lived in Mobile i heard rumors but thought it was nothing more than "what if".  Now its basically something for the locals to do when Bama and Auburn are out of the region or on bye weeks.
it's easy to be emaw when EMAW is at your doorstep - FFF

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25017 on: July 26, 2013, 06:43:58 PM »
If kids really cared about playing for FCS championships, then they would be choosing FCS schools over Sun Belt, MAC, Mountain West, and Big East schools. This does not happen because those kids would rather lose at the highest level than win at a level that is completely irrelevant. You aren't doing those kids a favor by dropping them down to a lower level and then letting them play in some playoff of losers for a "national championship".

But the problem is that D1 is too bloated, and they've made it such a huge umbrella that schools with no business competing at this level are doing so.

Look at the database (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1) and sort by subsidy.  Look at the asinine amount of schools taking millions from the university to fund D1 athletic departments.  Louisville was/is the most successful non-Power 5 school (at this moment), and they take an 11.5% subsidy.  After them?  UConn.  Then, at third, Fresno St. pops in with a 27.8% subsidy.  Boise St. is right after them.

To compete at this "highest level" public schools are passing millions over to athletic departments just to compete at the mid-major level.  We've reached a point, right or wrong, where we're reaching a critical mass between these subsidies and secondary education funding.  The cat is out of the bag, and there's no turning back now.

At this point, honestly, the best thing is for those schools that can sustain this kind of level be allowed to do so, and those that can't should be relegated down to a division where they aren't forcing public universities to send millions to the AD to support an unsustainable athletic department.  For example, in 2011, UMKC made about $1.5 million in ticket sales, donations, conference distribution, and licensing.  They spent over $11 million dollars. Even though they took over $7.2 million in student fees and university money that year, they still had a $2 million shortfall.  There is absolutely no reason why UMKC should be in the same NCAA division as KSU.  Hell, we took almost $5 million LESS from students and the university than they did.  And we have a BCS football program for Christ's sakes.

Look, I get that people take issue with college athletics losing it's soul to the almighty dollar.  But so many of these schools can't pay their bills.  For those that can, they need to be allowed to govern themselves and write rules that are best for their institutions, and those that can't afford to keep up with them need to be creating associations and making decisions based on their ability to properly fund athletics.

I think that Boise State as an academic institution probably benefits greatly from having a successful football team at the Division 1 level and that the money they are using to subsidize football is probably a very good investment on their part. Why demonize them? If they want to play D1 football, and they come up with the funding to do so, who cares where the money comes from? That is their business.

There are no current rules that are unfair to big programs in BCS conferences. Those conferences just want to change the rules so that they can push the best midmajor programs out of the postseason and we, the fans, in turn get cheated by not getting to watch the best teams play.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25018 on: July 26, 2013, 06:46:37 PM »
College football is great because of the violent, competitive, man-child vs man-child, larger than life teams going up against each other in games that matter, not because it gives a lot of players a chance to play at the top level.

Reality sucks, and so do players at small confy's.  Send them packing down.  Is it doing them a favor?  Who cares?

I want the football I watch to be big time players, at big time schools, playing big time games every single week.

Who cares if its about the money?  That's America.  I say pay all players equally throughout the big confy's, make 4 years mandatory, and then sit back and watch fantastic football games every single week leading up a playoff of behemoth proportions.

If this had been done 10 years ago, there would be no Boise State over OU, no Utah over Alabama, no TCU over Wisconsin . . .

We would have been stuck watching worse teams in BCS bowl games.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25019 on: July 26, 2013, 08:04:48 PM »
I am totally OK with universities having NO sports, and no scholarships for sports.  Why on earth should athletes get scholarships over people who are smart and who actually use the university for its intended purpose?

However, we do have sports, and I do enjoy them.  So, as long as we have them, lets win, because that is more fun.


What I like about separating the big schools and conferences from the small is that the decision rights.  The small schools should not get the same vote as the big schools.  The small schools should not be influencing policy simply because they out number the big schools.  Sports are not a democracy.  They are sports.  It's a rough ridin' entertainment engine, nothing more.






Offline meSACKwilliams

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25020 on: July 26, 2013, 08:38:47 PM »
It has little to do with the university and more with the media. Who's to say that the BCS is better than FCS? Who's to say that an FCS team isnt better than a BCS team? Who's job is it to declare that the SEC is the absolute BEST conferences at the FBS level with the ABSOLUTE best teams?  Its the freakin media. The university has the power and should be able to do whatever they want with their athletic program weather it be raising or dropping it a division and what not. They could be a contender at the BCS level and then drop down a division, they will still be the same caliber team, but will not get any coverage other than regional coverage at most.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25021 on: July 26, 2013, 08:44:35 PM »
I am totally OK with universities having NO sports, and no scholarships for sports.  Why on earth should athletes get scholarships over people who are smart and who actually use the university for its intended purpose?

However, we do have sports, and I do enjoy them.  So, as long as we have them, lets win, because that is more fun.


What I like about separating the big schools and conferences from the small is that the decision rights.  The small schools should not get the same vote as the big schools.  The small schools should not be influencing policy simply because they out number the big schools.  Sports are not a democracy.  They are sports.  It's a rough ridin' entertainment engine, nothing more.

look pete, i like you and i'm gonna agree with you for now. but i hold the right to disagree if we are ever on the outside looking in and there's nothing we can do about it.

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25022 on: July 26, 2013, 08:55:15 PM »
1001 BABY!!!

:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:
3 yrs coming for this, so let's celebrate!!!! :cheers: to all

I NEVER DREAMED WE'D HAVE MORE THAN 1000 PAGES ON THIS THREAD ON THIS BLOG BUT WOW NOW WE HAVE 1001!!!! THIS IS GREAT I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! REMEMBER PAGE 456? THOSE WERE GOOD TIMES! REMEMBER PAGE 764? THAT WAS A GOOD TIME TOO! I WONDER IF WE'LL EVER GET PAST 1001? PROBABLY TOMORROW OR A LITTLE LATER TONIGHT! GO CATS!                                                                                    :lynchmob: :lynchmob: :lynchmob:  :thumbsup:  :thumbs: :crossfingers:
1002 BABY!!!     :driving: :ksu:  :drink:  :cheers:  :love:  :dance:
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 08:59:23 PM by Katdaddy »
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25023 on: July 26, 2013, 09:17:36 PM »
I am totally OK with universities having NO sports, and no scholarships for sports.  Why on earth should athletes get scholarships over people who are smart and who actually use the university for its intended purpose?

However, we do have sports, and I do enjoy them.  So, as long as we have them, lets win, because that is more fun.


What I like about separating the big schools and conferences from the small is that the decision rights.  The small schools should not get the same vote as the big schools.  The small schools should not be influencing policy simply because they out number the big schools.  Sports are not a democracy.  They are sports.  It's a rough ridin' entertainment engine, nothing more.

I agree. However, I simply can't see 100+ "small" schools (and their alumni and their local congressmen and senators) just sitting back and going "oh, yeah, we'll take the coach seat". 

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #25024 on: July 26, 2013, 09:31:38 PM »
Why can't there be a new level/division in college sports.  Right now we have around 120 FBS teams.  Those schools that want football at the highest level should have it, if they can afford it.  The left over FBS schools could still have the NCAA govern themselves.  The D4$ schools would have their own authority over them and not have NCAA control over them.  While the new D4$ schools would be football oriented, the FBS schools would be more basketball oriented.  Lets face it, there are BCS schools that value BB over football.  The two divisions would be known for what sport they excel in, one being the FOOTBALL league and the other the BASKETBALL league.  This would make it easier for the split to happen.  Just think, one would be funded by the CF Champions payoffs and upper tier Bowls; the other by the NCAA BB Tournament.   
Hot time in Kat town tonight.