Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[wetwillie]

The conference pecking order as I see it today

1. Big Ten
2. SEC
3. PAC 14
4. Big 12
5. ACC

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is shrinking and the difference between 4 and 5 is widening.

[CyberToothCat]

According to this the SEC deal is worth 28.6 mil/year. No where near he crazy projections being thrown around.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/5/3/4295242/sec-network-big-ten-network-comparison

SEC Network: Approximated at $28.6 million per season, when combined with the conference's other television deals with CBS and ESPN. None of that will be given directly to the students playing the games, though Slive wants full-cost scholarships.

Big Ten Network: Over $25 million per season and rising, again when paired with its deal with ABC/ESPN. Not only will none of that be given to the students playing the games, but Jim Delany once threatened to take the conference to Division III and blow the entire thing up if someone makes him do it.

I think the SBNation article misunderstands the situation.  Once the SEC Network revenues are added to the total TV revenues for the SEC, each school will get about $28.6 million.

CBSSports.com cited a television source today not directly affiliated with the deal as estimating the SEC's eventual television worth from ESPN and CBS at $400 million annually. That would be $28.6 million per school in TV revenue alone, not counting other payouts, including increased postseason football money.

SEC members averaged $20.4 million from their total conference payout in 2011-12, according to the league's nonprofit filing. The Big Ten, which started a conference TV network in 2007, paid out about $25 million to each member last year, according to published reports.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/04/the_much-anticipated_sec_chann.html

[TheHamburglar]

sbnation has it right in that quote, bws read it wrong.

[eastcat]

According to this the SEC deal is worth 28.6 mil/year. No where near he crazy projections being thrown around.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/5/3/4295242/sec-network-big-ten-network-comparison

SEC Network: Approximated at $28.6 million per season, when combined with the conference's other television deals with CBS and ESPN. None of that will be given directly to the students playing the games, though Slive wants full-cost scholarships.

Big Ten Network: Over $25 million per season and rising, again when paired with its deal with ABC/ESPN. Not only will none of that be given to the students playing the games, but Jim Delany once threatened to take the conference to Division III and blow the entire thing up if someone makes him do it.

I think the SBNation article misunderstands the situation.  Once the SEC Network revenues are added to the total TV revenues for the SEC, each school will get about $28.6 million.

CBSSports.com cited a television source today not directly affiliated with the deal as estimating the SEC's eventual television worth from ESPN and CBS at $400 million annually. That would be $28.6 million per school in TV revenue alone, not counting other payouts, including increased postseason football money.

SEC members averaged $20.4 million from their total conference payout in 2011-12, according to the league's nonprofit filing. The Big Ten, which started a conference TV network in 2007, paid out about $25 million to each member last year, according to published reports.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/04/the_much-anticipated_sec_chann.html

It would be 26.6mil. The Conference office gets a share, all revenue is split 15 ways.

[ednksu]

is it just me or does the big 12 inaction and self aggrandizement really bother anyone else?  I mean UT is pissed about Clemson?  I don't know the academic rankings enough, but I find Clemson to be just as appealing, it not more so than TCU and on par with WVU.  Not only that the benefits of FSU outweigh any negatives of Clemson.  Further adding those 3 sets the conference up so much better for long term health by creating a legitimate path to an east division.  I just see too many good points and not enough negatives, however unlikely, to counter.

Meh. My only beef is/was TCU over Louisville

Oh my god the Louisville debacle doesn't even compare to this.  I mean lonely Cardinal outranks all other questionable decisions made by the big 12 in conference armageddon IMO. 



And Kim you could make an argument that WVU and Clemson are comparable in football and basketball success recently (although much weaker argument for bball).  I was being conservative.  Point being, Big12-ie0 sucks.

[PowercatPat]

The conference pecking order as I see it today

1. Big Ten
2. SEC
3. PAC 14
4. Big 12
5. ACC

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is shrinking and the difference between 4 and 5 is widening.

Who is the Pac 14?

[Panjandrum]

The conference pecking order as I see it today

1. Big Ten
2. SEC
3. PAC 14
4. Big 12
5. ACC

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is shrinking and the difference between 4 and 5 is widening.

Who is the Pac 14?

The Big 12 has the potential to be almost dead even with the Pac-12 as time goes by.

Just because they have a network, it doesn't mean it's going to do as well as the others.  It doesn't have the backing of ESPN or Fox.  It's also set up with a regional flavor similar to FSN.

Also, no one east of the Rockies cares about Pac-12 anything.  It's why Larry Scott was so desperate to raid the Big 12 and then align more and more with the Big Ten.  They need exposure out East.  At this point, though, no one seems to really be interested in it.  The ACC, Big 12, and SEC seem to be getting into bed with each other, and the Big Ten shot down an alliance a while back.  They're out on an island more than they've ever been.

[eastcat]

Meh, the Big-12 is always going to be playing a man down. We need another major brand (ala Nebraska) to balance the power and make our schedules more viable for mainstream tv.

[Stevesie60]

The conference pecking order as I see it today

1. Big Ten
2. SEC
3. PAC 14
4. Big 12
5. ACC

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is shrinking and the difference between 4 and 5 is widening.

Who is the Pac 14?

The Big 12 has the potential to be almost dead even with the Pac-12 as time goes by.

Just because they have a network, it doesn't mean it's going to do as well as the others.  It doesn't have the backing of ESPN or Fox.  It's also set up with a regional flavor similar to FSN.

Also, no one east of the Rockies cares about Pac-12 anything.  It's why Larry Scott was so desperate to raid the Big 12 and then align more and more with the Big Ten.  They need exposure out East.  At this point, though, no one seems to really be interested in it.  The ACC, Big 12, and SEC seem to be getting into bed with each other, and the Big Ten shot down an alliance a while back.  They're out on an island more than they've ever been.

Yeah, I think the biggest factor in this is that the two most popular states (by name/reputation, not by population) are California and Colorado. Well, California only cares about NFL and NBA teams, and Colorado only cares about weed and outdoor adventures. No one's crowding around a TV in a bar to watch their favorite college team face off against their favorite rival.

[Stevesie60]

The conference pecking order as I see it today

1. Big Ten
2. SEC
3. PAC 14
4. Big 12
5. ACC

I think the difference between 3 and 4 is shrinking and the difference between 4 and 5 is widening.

Who is the Pac 14?

The Big 12 has the potential to be almost dead even with the Pac-12 as time goes by.

Just because they have a network, it doesn't mean it's going to do as well as the others.  It doesn't have the backing of ESPN or Fox.  It's also set up with a regional flavor similar to FSN.

Also, no one east of the Rockies cares about Pac-12 anything.  It's why Larry Scott was so desperate to raid the Big 12 and then align more and more with the Big Ten.  They need exposure out East.  At this point, though, no one seems to really be interested in it.  The ACC, Big 12, and SEC seem to be getting into bed with each other, and the Big Ten shot down an alliance a while back.  They're out on an island more than they've ever been.

Yeah, I think the biggest factor in this is that the two most popular states (by name/reputation, not by population) are California and Colorado. Well, California only cares about NFL and NBA teams, and Colorado only cares about weed and outdoor adventures. No one's crowding around a TV in a bar to watch their favorite college team face off against their favorite rival.

Can confirm.

[Panjandrum]

The other big thing is that 14, while good to inflate win totals for a few schools, is an awful number for conference membership. Scheduling is horrible. Inequities are all over the place. 10-12 years of that isn't going to go over well.  It's going to things interesting in 12 years.

[deputy dawg]

Sorry to go off topic, but had a beer with a couple of ku alums the other night.  They tell me that the big 10 is interested in ku for its basketball program.  Their argument is that basketball gets more eyeballs, over the course of a season, than football, due to the higher number of games and multiple games per week.  I can understand why they want this to be true, but don't know if it is true.

Earlier in the thread, Dax provided some info on basketball revenue as a % of conference revenue, but it seemed like the NCAA's take on the basketball revenue impaired basketball as being as consistent as a revenue generator as football.   

So, is basketball a make or break factor in conference realignment?  If so, ku is sitting pretty.

[ben ji]

Sorry to go off topic, but had a beer with a couple of ku alums the other night.  They tell me that the big 10 is interested in ku for its basketball program.  Their argument is that basketball gets more eyeballs, over the course of a season, than football, due to the higher number of games and multiple games per week.  I can understand why they want this to be true, but don't know if it is true.

Earlier in the thread, Dax provided some info on basketball revenue as a % of conference revenue, but it seemed like the NCAA's take on the basketball revenue impaired basketball as being as consistent as a revenue generator as football.   

So, is basketball a make or break factor in conference realignment?  If so, ku is sitting pretty.

Teams have moved conferences for 1 of 2 reasons. 1. They had a brand name football team(Nebraska) 2. They were in a large market(Everyone Else).

KU fits neither.

[TheHamburglar]

So, is basketball a make or break factor in conference realignment? 

In the recent ACC/ESPN TV deal BB is worth 20%.  That is for a conference that has Duke and UNC.  The highest BB split I've seen was in the Big East deal that ended 2 years ago.  It had BB worth about 30% of the money paid to schools that played both FB and BB, and that was in the worst power 6 FB and arguably best BB conference.  This refutes the "more eyeballs, thus worth more" argument.

Don't get fooled into the basketball is the biggest money maker for the NCAA talking point.  Yes, it is the biggest money maker for the NCAA offices since they receive the $750MM check directly and never see a dime FBS football money.  That does not mean it's the biggest money maker for the conferences.  The way that money gets back to the conferences is thru "units" earned the previous 6 seasons.  Based on that, KU BB earned the conference $6.13MM of NCAA money based on the previous 6 years.  There are a couple of ways to look at how that translates to the BigTen.  This year the BigTen payout will be just over $25MM per team.  The KU NCAA BB money doesn't come close to paying back their share.  Also, that's an additional $383K per team.  No school is going to push to add KU for an additional $383K in NCAA money so they can then turn around and cut out $1.7MM of their share to help cover KU's additional share. 

Also, looking at the CBS deal, it's current deal through 2017 for 24 BB games, plus the conference semifinals and finals is worth $12MM per year.  Marquee BigTen basketball as a whole is worth $12MM per year.  Adding KU to the BigTen would cost the conference a minimum of $25MM per year.  Adding KU BB wouldn't even come close to being a financial gain for the BigTen.   

[deputy dawg]

So, as earnest as my friends from ku are, they are misinformed?  Could it be true that ku fans, in sharing information about their alma mater about themselves, would exchange faulty info?  Color me surprised.

Their point does mesh with a talking point, espoused on these boards by Beems, that football is going away, and will be replaced as the dominant collegiate sport with basketball.  This will therefore make ku, the inventor of basketball and the most famous basketball team the world, the most coveted university in conference realignment.  Just want to make sure I understand their perspective properly.

Thanks for the rational answer. 

[KITNfury]

The "more eyeballs" argument is misleading. For basketball, it's the same eyeballs being counted twice. So for arguments sake let's say a football game gets 2 million viewers while basketball gets 1 million but plays two games per week. Should be the same money right? Well the football game gets 2 million individual viewers and bball would have heavy overlap. Showing an ads twice to the same people won't have the same value as  showing more people once.

[Panjandrum]

So, as earnest as my friends from ku are, they are misinformed?  Could it be true that ku fans, in sharing information about their alma mater about themselves, would exchange faulty info?  Color me surprised.

Their point does mesh with a talking point, espoused on these boards by Beems, that football is going away, and will be replaced as the dominant collegiate sport with basketball.  This will therefore make ku, the inventor of basketball and the most famous basketball team the world, the most coveted university in conference realignment.  Just want to make sure I understand their perspective properly.

Thanks for the rational answer.

KU would be a Big Ten candidate because they're an AAU school in the contiguous footprint.  No more, no less.

[HerrSonntag]

So, as earnest as my friends from ku are, they are misinformed?  Could it be true that ku fans, in sharing information about their alma mater about themselves, would exchange faulty info?  Color me surprised.

Their point does mesh with a talking point, espoused on these boards by Beems, that football is going away, and will be replaced as the dominant collegiate sport with basketball.  This will therefore make ku, the inventor of basketball and the most famous basketball team the world, the most coveted university in conference realignment.  Just want to make sure I understand their perspective properly.

Thanks for the rational answer.

KU would be a Big Ten candidate because they're an AAU school in the contiguous footprint.  No more, no less.

So we should be worrying about the wandering eyes of iowa state?   

[Skipper44]

So, as earnest as my friends from ku are, they are misinformed?  Could it be true that ku fans, in sharing information about their alma mater about themselves, would exchange faulty info?  Color me surprised.

Their point does mesh with a talking point, espoused on these boards by Beems, that football is going away, and will be replaced as the dominant collegiate sport with basketball.  This will therefore make ku, the inventor of basketball and the most famous basketball team the world, the most coveted university in conference realignment.  Just want to make sure I understand their perspective properly.

Thanks for the rational answer.

If you really want to play in fantasy land with your ku buds, bring up the theory of KU hoops helping market penetration for the Big 10 network.  Talk up the "huge" fan base in the DFW and Denver that will demand the Big 10 network be placed on basic cable packages. 

I will take my tongue out of my cheek for moment and say I do believe the SEC may use the above rationalization to take Duke with the thinking it may help the SEC Network in the Northeast.

[deputy dawg]

Talk up the "huge" fan base in the DFW and Denver that will demand the Big 10 network be placed on basic cable packages. 

It's as though you were in the room.  Have heard these talking points numerous times.

[deputy dawg]

Relative influence of Bowlsby among conference commissioners:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1630229-power-ranking-the-most-influential-conference-commissioners

[steve dave]

Relative influence of Bowlsby among conference commissioners:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1630229-power-ranking-the-most-influential-conference-commissioners

bleacherreport, did not click

[Panjandrum]

Relative influence of Bowlsby among conference commissioners:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1630229-power-ranking-the-most-influential-conference-commissioners

bleacherreport, did not click

Here's what I got from this slideshow:

Bob Bowlsby kept the Big 12 together and made us all a crap ton of money, but there are rumors Dodds is really the boss, so, #5.

John Swofford isn't that great of a commissioner, but the ACC has more teams, so #4.

Larry Scott has big ideas, totally failed at nearly all of them, but he'll have more ideas later, so #3.

Bleacher Report is so stupid.

[ednksu]

So, as earnest as my friends from ku are, they are misinformed?  Could it be true that ku fans, in sharing information about their alma mater about themselves, would exchange faulty info?  Color me surprised.

Their point does mesh with a talking point, espoused on these boards by Beems, that football is going away, and will be replaced as the dominant collegiate sport with basketball.  This will therefore make ku, the inventor of basketball and the most famous basketball team the world, the most coveted university in conference realignment.  Just want to make sure I understand their perspective properly.

Thanks for the rational answer.

I believe part of the issue KU fans face is that they make false equivalencies between their own university's revenue streams and conference revenue streams.  Go figure KU fans have blinders on to the way things work in the real world. 

[CyberToothCat]

Based on the FY2013 budget on the K-State website, we projected $18.9 million distribution from Big 12. (FY13 ends 6/30/13)
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ksu/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/KSA-FY13-Budget.pdf


Based on this article from CBS sports.com, the Big 12 is looking at $22-$25 million per school this year.  Cha-ching! Can you say profit?
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22225933/big-12-schools-eyeing-2225-million-in-conference-revenue-payout


Meanwhile in Boulder, the Buffies are stuck with their 2nd consecutive year in the red. Last year was expected as they had to buy out of the Big 12.  This year's loss... not so much...
http://www.buffzone.com/cu-news/ci_23194898/football-cu-buffs-athletic-department-suffers-financial-loss