Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4894791 times)

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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18050 on: February 15, 2012, 11:07:45 AM »
I was really hoping for it to be more like $20 million per.

We probably would have been able to get more had we not found two replacement schools.  However, the liquidated damages probably wouldn't have been that high.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18051 on: February 15, 2012, 11:23:39 AM »
The Sun Belt really isn't any worse than the WAC. It's probably better, actually.

In terms of how good teams are on paper, you're right. In terms of teams that our fans would actually be excited to play, it's not at all. Louisiana Tech/Utah State/San Jose State/NMSU > UL-Lafayette, Florida International, Western Kentucky, and four former Southland Conference schools (the conference we're leaving). The only team that Texas State fans would really give two shits about playing besides UTSA would be North Texas and maybe Arkansas State as long as Malzahn is there. To us, the SBC is basically the Southland Conference except with a bowl bid and no playoffs.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 11:26:14 AM by 42 »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18052 on: February 15, 2012, 11:27:03 AM »
The Sun Belt really isn't any worse than the WAC. It's probably better, actually.

In terms of how good teams are on paper, you're right. In terms of teams that our fans would actually be excited to play, it's not at all. Louisiana Tech/Utah State/San Jose State/NMSU > UL-Lafayette, Florida International, Western Kentucky, and four former Southland Conference schools (the conference we're leaving). The only team that Texas State fans would really give two shits about playing besides UTSA would be North Texas and maybe Arkansas State as long as Malzahn is there.

What makes Louisiana Tech better than Louisiana Lafayette? Troy is also a pretty solid program, as far as non-BCS programs go.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18053 on: February 15, 2012, 11:31:58 AM »
The Sun Belt really isn't any worse than the WAC. It's probably better, actually.

In terms of how good teams are on paper, you're right. In terms of teams that our fans would actually be excited to play, it's not at all. Louisiana Tech/Utah State/San Jose State/NMSU > UL-Lafayette, Florida International, Western Kentucky, and four former Southland Conference schools (the conference we're leaving). The only team that Texas State fans would really give two shits about playing besides UTSA would be North Texas and maybe Arkansas State as long as Malzahn is there.

What makes Louisiana Tech better than Louisiana Lafayette? Troy is also a pretty solid program, as far as non-BCS programs go.

Slightly better prestige/program history/name recognition. More bowl appearances, etc. And yeah, Troy is solid as hell (they would beat our ass regularly when they were in the Southland Conference), but for us that'd be just like playing McNeese like we do now. ULL and Troy both have that "Southland Plus" feel to them.

Personally, I don't think we're too good for the Sun Belt, but I can see why some of our fans aren't excited about it. Not only is the Sun Belt an echo of the Southland, but it's where good/great Southland programs have gone to die. The WAC gave us a chance to distinguish ourselves a bit and play teams from other parts of the country.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18054 on: February 15, 2012, 11:37:11 AM »
The Sun Belt really isn't any worse than the WAC. It's probably better, actually.

In terms of how good teams are on paper, you're right. In terms of teams that our fans would actually be excited to play, it's not at all. Louisiana Tech/Utah State/San Jose State/NMSU > UL-Lafayette, Florida International, Western Kentucky, and four former Southland Conference schools (the conference we're leaving). The only team that Texas State fans would really give two shits about playing besides UTSA would be North Texas and maybe Arkansas State as long as Malzahn is there.

What makes Louisiana Tech better than Louisiana Lafayette? Troy is also a pretty solid program, as far as non-BCS programs go.

Slightly better prestige/program history/name recognition. More bowl appearances, etc. And yeah, Troy is solid as hell (they would beat our ass regularly when they were in the Southland Conference), but for us that'd be just like playing McNeese like we do now. ULL and Troy both have that "Southland Plus" feel to them.

Personally, I don't think we're too good for the Sun Belt, but I can see why some of our fans aren't excited about it. Not only is the Sun Belt an echo of the Southland, but it's where good/great Southland programs have gone to die. The WAC gave us a chance to distinguish ourselves a bit and play teams from other parts of the country.

I think you are looking at it wrong. You should treasure actually having regional rivals that are already established by prior conference affiliation. Nobody, other than the fans of teams in the WAC and Sun Belt, is capable of distinguishing the teams in those conferences anyway. I would think it would be a plus for a school with a small athletic budget to not have to constantly play games on the west coast, especially when those games won't even be televised anyway.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18055 on: February 15, 2012, 11:52:09 AM »
The Sun Belt really isn't any worse than the WAC. It's probably better, actually.

In terms of how good teams are on paper, you're right. In terms of teams that our fans would actually be excited to play, it's not at all. Louisiana Tech/Utah State/San Jose State/NMSU > UL-Lafayette, Florida International, Western Kentucky, and four former Southland Conference schools (the conference we're leaving). The only team that Texas State fans would really give two shits about playing besides UTSA would be North Texas and maybe Arkansas State as long as Malzahn is there.

What makes Louisiana Tech better than Louisiana Lafayette? Troy is also a pretty solid program, as far as non-BCS programs go.

Slightly better prestige/program history/name recognition. More bowl appearances, etc. And yeah, Troy is solid as hell (they would beat our ass regularly when they were in the Southland Conference), but for us that'd be just like playing McNeese like we do now. ULL and Troy both have that "Southland Plus" feel to them.

Personally, I don't think we're too good for the Sun Belt, but I can see why some of our fans aren't excited about it. Not only is the Sun Belt an echo of the Southland, but it's where good/great Southland programs have gone to die. The WAC gave us a chance to distinguish ourselves a bit and play teams from other parts of the country.

I think you are looking at it wrong. You should treasure actually having regional rivals that are already established by prior conference affiliation. Nobody, other than the fans of teams in the WAC and Sun Belt, is capable of distinguishing the teams in those conferences anyway. I would think it would be a plus for a school with a small athletic budget to not have to constantly play games on the west coast, especially when those games won't even be televised anyway.

You're right about all of this, and I hope that our fanbase sees over time that a Sun Belt bid would be better for us in the long run (because it would be). It's just that the WAC had this new car smell (even though the new car is a Daewoo) and the Sun Belt is more like a used Hyundai. I'll get over my disgust fairly easily IF we stay in FBS play by getting an SBC bid, but I dunno if our fanbase will. We're somewhat snobby like our burnt orange neighbors and we'd rather play low-end teams from California and Utah than low-end teams from Louisiana and Alabama, some of whom didn't like us all that much anyway.

Moving on...

$16 million per... will take I guess

Laser PAKheads installed on the new pressbox? :dunno:

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18056 on: February 15, 2012, 12:23:32 PM »
Quote
Chip Brown @ChipBrownOB

A source in the Big 12 tells Orangebloods.com the combined exit fees of Missouri and Texas A&M will total between $31 mil and $34 mil.

 :kstategrad:
+1  :kstategrad:
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Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18057 on: February 15, 2012, 12:29:34 PM »
Should be $40M imo. Make the SEC pay through the nose.   :eek:
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Florida State and Clemson to the BIG 12?
« Reply #18058 on: February 15, 2012, 12:33:05 PM »
Oh my gosh Clemson and Florida State . . .  :driving:
We could use some of the exit fee money to entice these ACC schools, since their buyout out is 20 mil each.  :pray:
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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18059 on: February 15, 2012, 01:17:35 PM »
Should be $40M imo. Make the SEC pay through the nose.   :eek:

Lawyery types have told me that we can only make them pay what a court would define as liquidated damages.

Therefore, some sort of analysis has probably been done, and legally, we can only charge this amount of money and have some form of arbitrator or judge agree to the amount.

Again, an actual lawyer can correct me on this, but that's my high level understanding.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18060 on: February 15, 2012, 01:33:30 PM »
a billion people can do analysis all day for a year and no two would come to the same figure.  if they entered into binding arb they both gave their argument to the arbitration panel and the arbitrator gave them a figure that was in the middle of both of their figures and they both were stuck with it.  there are a lot of interesting arbitrations you can enter into.  baseball arbitration has both sides give their figure and the arbitrator has to choose one of those figures (not their own number) so both sides are under a lot of pressure to make their figure very reasonable.  sometimes there is little difference in the figures when they present them to the arbitrator.  another is each side gives the arbitrator 3 figures and the arbitrator takes the first (highest/lowest depending on which side) figures, then second, then third and if any of the figures cross that is the accepted settlement.  when your first figure crosses their first figure you both say "WTF" and both sides stress that they missed something important.  You can enter into high/low arbitration where both sides agree to a max figure and a min. figure and then agree to let an arbitrator pick a number between the two.  But, I doubt they entered into binding arbitraiton.  They did mediate the case awhile back but that's just them sitting their attorneys in a room and throwing numbers back and forth.  They both needed to move on ASAP and this is just the number they agreed on (would be my guess)

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Offline Creepy Cat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18061 on: February 15, 2012, 02:27:18 PM »
a billion people can do analysis all day for a year and no two would come to the same figure.  if they entered into binding arb they both gave their argument to the arbitration panel and the arbitrator gave them a figure that was in the middle of both of their figures and they both were stuck with it.  there are a lot of interesting arbitrations you can enter into.  baseball arbitration has both sides give their figure and the arbitrator has to choose one of those figures (not their own number) so both sides are under a lot of pressure to make their figure very reasonable.  sometimes there is little difference in the figures when they present them to the arbitrator.  another is each side gives the arbitrator 3 figures and the arbitrator takes the first (highest/lowest depending on which side) figures, then second, then third and if any of the figures cross that is the accepted settlement.  when your first figure crosses their first figure you both say "WTF" and both sides stress that they missed something important.  You can enter into high/low arbitration where both sides agree to a max figure and a min. figure and then agree to let an arbitrator pick a number between the two.  But, I doubt they entered into binding arbitraiton.  They did mediate the case awhile back but that's just them sitting their attorneys in a room and throwing numbers back and forth.  They both needed to move on ASAP and this is just the number they agreed on (would be my guess)

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laurin?

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18062 on: February 15, 2012, 04:50:10 PM »
a billion people can do analysis all day for a year and no two would come to the same figure.  if they entered into binding arb they both gave their argument to the arbitration panel and the arbitrator gave them a figure that was in the middle of both of their figures and they both were stuck with it.  there are a lot of interesting arbitrations you can enter into.  baseball arbitration has both sides give their figure and the arbitrator has to choose one of those figures (not their own number) so both sides are under a lot of pressure to make their figure very reasonable.  sometimes there is little difference in the figures when they present them to the arbitrator.  another is each side gives the arbitrator 3 figures and the arbitrator takes the first (highest/lowest depending on which side) figures, then second, then third and if any of the figures cross that is the accepted settlement.  when your first figure crosses their first figure you both say "WTF" and both sides stress that they missed something important.  You can enter into high/low arbitration where both sides agree to a max figure and a min. figure and then agree to let an arbitrator pick a number between the two.  But, I doubt they entered into binding arbitraiton.  They did mediate the case awhile back but that's just them sitting their attorneys in a room and throwing numbers back and forth.  They both needed to move on ASAP and this is just the number they agreed on (would be my guess)

steve dave, not esquire

laurin?

Creepy 27th post.   :ohno:


"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18063 on: February 15, 2012, 05:10:05 PM »
Should be $40M imo. Make the SEC pay through the nose.   :eek:

Lawyery types have told me that we can only make them pay what a court would define as liquidated damages.

Therefore, some sort of analysis has probably been done, and legally, we can only charge this amount of money and have some form of arbitrator or judge agree to the amount.

Again, an actual lawyer can correct me on this, but that's my high level understanding.

Liquidated damages would be a definite number that is in the contract already.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18064 on: February 15, 2012, 05:11:59 PM »
a billion people can do analysis all day for a year and no two would come to the same figure.  if they entered into binding arb they both gave their argument to the arbitration panel and the arbitrator gave them a figure that was in the middle of both of their figures and they both were stuck with it.  there are a lot of interesting arbitrations you can enter into.  baseball arbitration has both sides give their figure and the arbitrator has to choose one of those figures (not their own number) so both sides are under a lot of pressure to make their figure very reasonable.  sometimes there is little difference in the figures when they present them to the arbitrator.  another is each side gives the arbitrator 3 figures and the arbitrator takes the first (highest/lowest depending on which side) figures, then second, then third and if any of the figures cross that is the accepted settlement.  when your first figure crosses their first figure you both say "WTF" and both sides stress that they missed something important.  You can enter into high/low arbitration where both sides agree to a max figure and a min. figure and then agree to let an arbitrator pick a number between the two.  But, I doubt they entered into binding arbitraiton.  They did mediate the case awhile back but that's just them sitting their attorneys in a bunch of separate rooms in a fancy office while they bill a crap ton and eat fancy catered in foodroom and throwing numbers back and forth.  They both needed to move on ASAP and this is just the number they agreed on (would be my guess)

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Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18065 on: February 16, 2012, 08:28:05 PM »
Wednesday February 15, 2012 - 4:00 PM




Irish AD Swarbrick can move mountains, would move Big 12 too
By Dennis Dodd | CBSSports.com Senior College Football Columnist

Jack Swarbrick was runner-up when the Big 12 hired Dan Beebe as commissioner in 2007. (US Presswire)
 
The Big 12 is looking for a commissioner. They ran out their old one five months ago. Amid the turmoil of conference realignment and scandal, you may still remember.

It's not the best job for a lot of reasons, nor the most stable league. But it is a heck of a rebuild opportunity for someone. If you consider stepping around divergent cultures, jealousies, agendas and power struggles like they were cow pies a rebuild.

Forward thinking has not been a Big 12 habit. Former commissioner Kevin Weiberg had the "outlandish" idea five years ago of starting a Big 12 Network. It was outlandish only to the conference ADs and presidents who shot it down. He got frustrated and left. Today, Weiberg is a Pac-12 associate commissioner helping establish the best, brightest startup network on the college horizon. (Sorry Longhorn Network.)

Nor is it the most congenial league. Dan Beebe stepped into this wood chipper and had the league on track until the Missouri governor spoke in late 2009.

Colorado and Nebraska got nervous and left. Oklahoma and Texas almost followed, twice. That started a cascade of events that led to Beebe's ouster in September.

Why would Jack Swarbrick want to risk his wing tips in that field full of cow pies? Sandy Knapp has a hypothetical answer.

"Jack would be a fabulous [Big 12] commissioner," she told me this week.

The first questions for a lot of you: Who are Jack Swarbrick and Sandy Knapp? Swarbrick is the Notre Dame athletic director. Even in his powerful position, he remains one of the best under-the-radar thinkers in pro and college athletics. His name has come up to succeed Big 12 interim commissioner Chuck Neinas because he almost beat out Beebe for the job last time around. Previously, his name had been in the running for the Stanford AD job.

In his former life as an attorney, consultant and Olympic administrator, Swarbrick helped bring the NCAA office, Final Fours and the Super Bowl to Indianapolis. That makes him a veteran at moving mountains.

Knapp knows what Swarbrick would be getting into. She is a former cohort as president of the Indiana Sports Corporation and a friend for three decades.

"I think he'd be fabulous," Knapp reiterated from Austin, Texas, where Knapp and her husband reside. "[But] they missed their chance. The Big 12 would be a completely different deal these days if they had the courage and the presidents' conviction [not] to take somebody they know rather than take a risk."

Knapp is referring to September 2007 when Swarbrick was the runner-up for the Big 12 job that went to Beebe. Less than a year later Swarbrick was at his alma mater with what looks now to be a retirement job. He is 57 and happy. Notre Dame athletics -- aside from football -- are mostly thriving.

"I don't know if the final chapter has been written on that at Notre Dame," said David Frick, a former law firm partner with Swarbrick. "Jack has developed a vision of how to play in the elite world of college athletics, yet maintained ties to the university."

But if Swarbrick ever got the itch, word on the street is that the Big 12 wants an out-of-the-box thinker to lead it. They are looking for someone like Larry Scott, former head of the Women's Tennis Association who has revolutionized the Pac-12 and arguably college athletics. While Swarbrick has more of a traditional link to college athletics than Scott, his methods are legend.

"Don't let logistics get in the way of a good idea," Knapp said. "That's Jack."

When the NCAA was looking for a new national headquarters, Swarbrick helped put together an Indianapolis incentive package worth $50 million. That was 12 years ago. The Final Four now is played in Indianapolis once every five years. Swarbrick had a hand in securing that deal, too.

When Indianapolis dared to bid on the Super Bowl, it lost by a vote to Dallas for the 2011 event. Undeterred, Swarbrick had the idea for the physical bid packages using eighth graders flown out to hand deliver them to NFL owners. The kids brought basketballs signed by Larry Bird, racing helmets with the individual NFL team logos. The message was that Indy was big time. And that the Class of 2012 would be there to welcome the NFL.

Think about that for a minute. The Super Bowl. In Indianapolis. The conclusion from earlier this month is that the city and its organizers hit an absolute home run.

"Somebody else always had the light shining on them brighter, yet Jack was the mastermind ...," Knapp said. "There always was an intent to Indianapolize an event, do all the extra things, do all the things that haven't been done yet. We always felt like we were fighting sea shores and mountains and weather."

Metaphorically, sounds a little bit like the Big 12. The flatland Pure Prairie League is going on its third lineup in three years. If there is further expansion, 2013 would make it four in four years. It needs a kick in the butt. It needs Texas and Oklahoma to keep their hands off and let a commissioner work his magic.

It needs stability. It needs vision.

Why couldn't Swarbrick arrange a Big 12-SEC challenge much the way the Pac-12 and Big Ten have decided to play intersectional nonconference games beginning in 2017?

"Our idea is you can't stand still," Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said when the deal was announced.

With all the contentious factions within the league, the Big 12 tends to do just that -- standing still instead of standing out.

Why can't there be a Big 12 Network, even with Texas out of the loop and the Longhorn Network off to a sluggish start?

If Indianapolis can host a Super Bowl, why can't the Big 12 get its act together?

Don't let logistics get in the way of a good idea.

Remember?

Swarbrick is a man so able to balance his job and his family that he previously commuted from Indianapolis to South Bend several times a week. But the kids have grown and there are growing roots at Notre Dame. There are other names that have surfaced for the Big 12 job. NCAA Final Four guru Greg Shaheen has been mentioned. He is essentially a younger version of Swarbrick and would be a fine hire.

On its surface, it would be a tough job choice -- AD of Catholic flagship vs. major-conference commissioner. Security is never assured in either position. In both jobs, things can go bad in a hurry. Swarbrick helped guide Notre Dame after the tragic death of student videographer Declan Sullivan. The AD took his share of criticism.

The Big 12 just has to decide what it wants to be. Beebe spent $1 million with an Austin-based marketing firm last year on the "How We Play" rebranding of the league. It was useless two months later when Texas A&M left the league. After feeling sorry for Beebe's earnest attempt to change the league's perception, you didn't know whether to laugh, cry or kick a field goal.

Through all of this upheaval, the message has stayed constant: Any league that includes Oklahoma and Texas is worth saving. Well, it's saved again for now. Big TV money is in its future, but it needs to get back to being a conference rather than a content farm. It needs to be more, and it may have waited too long.

"He may be playing in a larger sand box," Frick said of his old friend now settled in with the Irish, "than a conference commissioner."

Maybe we'll get lucky and get Notre Dame to come with Swarbrick in the Big XII.  :pray:
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline sir spankalot

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18066 on: February 17, 2012, 07:08:37 AM »
Even though there was some apparent subtle corruption involved with the move from KC to Indianoplace, the guy does sound like someone who could get things done.  Could he deal with Deloss Dodds, though?

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18067 on: February 17, 2012, 07:22:53 AM »
Even though there was some apparent subtle corruption involved with the move from KC to Indianoplace, the guy does sound like someone who could get things done.  Could he deal with Deloss Dodds, though?

HAHAHAHA!  Deloss would have him eating out of a dog bowl on day one (as he should)

Offline KSU176

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18068 on: February 17, 2012, 08:28:41 AM »
Pay Jack?

Offline EMAW4life-JHL

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18069 on: February 17, 2012, 10:14:00 AM »
CUSA and MWC merging.  Goodman saying that the distance btwn Eastern Carolina and Hawaii is more than btwn Eastern Carolina and London(approx 4800 miles).  LOL
Hawaii is in the WAC
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18070 on: February 17, 2012, 10:32:28 AM »
CUSA and MWC merging.  Goodman saying that the distance btwn Eastern Carolina and Hawaii is more than btwn Eastern Carolina and London(approx 4800 miles).  LOL
Hawaii is in the WAC
my bad just now learneed of their move
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Offline deputy dawg

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18071 on: February 17, 2012, 01:14:39 PM »
Even though there was some apparent subtle corruption involved with the move from KC to Indianoplace, the guy does sound like someone who could get things done.  Could he deal with Deloss Dodds, though?

HAHAHAHA!  Deloss would have him eating out of a dog bowl on day one (as he should)

Ahh...I see

Offline Clevey 2 Times

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18072 on: February 17, 2012, 03:12:41 PM »
What in gods name turned this thread into deep analysis of the Sun Belt and WAC? We're losing steam post 720 pages of smoking cigars and enjoying the band...

Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18073 on: February 17, 2012, 03:22:58 PM »
What in gods name turned this thread into deep analysis of the Sun Belt and WAC? We're losing steam post 720 pages of smoking cigars and enjoying the band...

The captain tripped into a lifeboat?  :dunno:

Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #18074 on: February 17, 2012, 04:34:17 PM »
CUSA and MWC merging.  Goodman saying that the distance btwn Eastern Carolina and Hawaii is more than btwn Eastern Carolina and London(approx 4800 miles).  LOL
Hawaii is in the WAC
my bad just now learneed of their move

They are in the MWC in football only