Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4068395 times)

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Offline hatingfrancisco

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34975 on: February 23, 2023, 03:55:02 PM »
Who do you guys think Kirk really is on here?!?!  :ohno:


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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34976 on: February 24, 2023, 10:32:09 AM »
SDSU fans hope for invite, but will Pac-12 survive?

Mark Zeigler Columnist

We’ve seen this movie before.

Spoiler alert: It doesn’t end well.
In December 2011, San Diego State held a triumphant news conference in an athletic department auditorium to announce it was joining the Big East as a football-only member starting in the 2013-14 season, calling it “a very historic day in our history.”
Two years later, SDSU was holding another news conference in the same auditorium — this one to, gulp, say they were slinking back to the Mountain West Conference as the Big East collapsed.

A decade later, the university is on the verge of an invitation to the Pac-12, the Holy Grail for a proud institution that has largely operated on the fringes of college athletics, a panacea for a century-old inferiority complex among its fans, a ticket to the big time, a very historic day in its history.
And it might all happen.
But here’s the thing: It might not.
History tells us that. Logic should, too.

The question is less whether the Aztecs will be invited to join the Pac-12 (they will) but whether there will be a Pac-12 left to join, and the frustrating part is they’re powerless to do anything except wave their pennant on the sideline and wait, and hope, and pray.
The problems started last summer, when the elephants walked out of the zoo and the zookeeper didn’t notice they were gone. A year on the job, Pac-12 Commissioner George Kliavkoff was so dialed in with his conference that he was on vacation in Montana in an area with little cell service when news broke that USC and UCLA were bolting for the Big Ten starting in 2024.

The next move should have been to immediately secure a new media rights deal — and by extension, grant of rights agreements binding the remaining 10 members to the conference — instead of whining about who was leaving and trying to compel them to stay. Lock the gates first so the Wildcats, Ducks, Buffaloes and Huskies can’t escape before searching for the elephants.

UCLA was never coming back, not on its own volition or someone else’s. Enlisting Gov. Gavin Newsom and the University of California Board of Regents was a futile gesture that merely delayed media rights negotiations into October, then November, then December and now February.
It also allowed the Big 12 Conference to jump the line and finalize a five-year, $2.3 billion deal with ESPN and Fox Sports. The roughly $32 million per school per year is perhaps a tick under expectations. But it was made with linear TV partners (albeit with limited streaming on ESPN+) and has beat what some industry insiders project as a market bubble bursting.
And it leaves a Pac-12 minus its anchor schools scrambling, with money from viable linear networks rapidly drying up and the inevitable — and unenviable — pivot to streaming services like Amazon Prime and Apple TV+.

Even if the Pac-12 cobbles together a deal with ESPN and a streaming service that approximates the Big 12’s $32 million per year, the issue is less economics than exposure. Maybe in another decade or two, fans will willfully consume major live sports via a streaming app as opposed to flipping through TV channels on their couch and seeing what’s on, but the numbers are not there yet. Not even close.

If softball and tennis are on a streaming service, fine. If football and men’s basketball games are, that’s a problem. Kliavkoff will present a proposed deal to his presidents, who will ask their athletic directors, who will ask their football and men’s basketball coaches, who will swallow hard and say heck no.
Major League Soccer is giving it a go. It couldn’t get what it wanted from linear TV, so the league is gambling with Apple TV+, requiring a $99 per season pass ($79 if you already subscribe to Apple TV+) to see most games and team content.

But MLS’ demographic skews younger and may be more amenable to consuming games via a streaming app. College sports fans are typically much older — particularly the boosters who buy season tickets and bankroll the athletic department through donations.
Plus, MLS teams don’t have to recruit.

As Chris Vannini of The Athletic wrote about the Pac-12 and reports of courting Apple TV+: “A move to heavy streaming would dramatically decrease game viewership and threaten to speed the conference into irrelevancy. In a sport based around recruiting and donors, people need to find your games easily.”
Which brings us back to the movie screening before our eyes.
Will Arizona and Arizona State, Colorado and Utah, Oregon and Washington, stick with the Pac-12 and gamble on streaming? Or will they jump to the safe harbor of linear TV with the Big 12?

The Pac-12 is so convinced of its unanimity that it felt compelled to issue a statement last week telling us, explaining that they’ve had “positive conversations” on a new media rights deal and “remain highly confident in our future growth” and “united in our commitment to one another.”
Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark reads this, hears this, sees this … and laughs.

He’s simply waiting for Kliavkoff, a former Las Vegas hotel executive, to flip over his cards when the new Pac-12 media rights deal is complete. Then he’ll try to poach schools and dismantle his avowed rival.

If it’s for less money than the Big 12, it’s over. If it’s for similar money but has a significantly larger streaming component than the Big 12, it’s over. Even if it’s for slightly more money but still with a large number of games stuck behind a paywall, it still might be over.
Yormark had expansion provisions written into the Big 12’s contract. ESPN, which holds 63 percent of the rights, reportedly has agreed to pay full shares to new members coming from existing power conferences like the Pac-12 (but not Group of Five conferences like the Mountain West), or about $20 million per school per year. If Yormark can convince Fox to do the same, he could offer full shares.

The so-called Four Corners schools make sense from a geographical standpoint. Arizona and ASU deliver the Pacific time zone for part of the year as well as the Phoenix media market. Colorado used to be a member of the Big 12. Utah provides a natural rival and travel partner for newcomer BYU, which joins the Big 12 later this year.
But the biggest fish might be in the Pacific Northwest. Oregon and Washington have designs on following USC and UCLA to the Big Ten, but there’s speculation that Yormark can offer them lucrative TV money with an out clause if the Big Ten comes calling — which could happen if Notre Dame leaves the ranks of independents and spurs another round of conference realignment.

All it takes is one or two to swallow Yormark’s bait. Lifeboats will be in the water quickly.
Meanwhile, SDSU waves its pennant on the sideline and waits, and hopes, and prays.

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Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34977 on: February 24, 2023, 12:49:52 PM »
That's a pretty bleak forecast that guy makes, I don't see it as over as he does in all those scenarios but I can see it being not great.

I would in general be totally fine at this point have the Zonas, Utah, and Colorado back, and becoming the for sure #3 conference in the US. Might let us figure out for leverage vs ACC when that time comes

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Offline Cire

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34978 on: February 24, 2023, 12:53:04 PM »
hi Kirk  :adios:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/21/pac-12-media-rights-nobody-spiraling-off-into-places-of-despair-as-process-nears-resolution-wsu-president-says/

Quote
“I follow the Kansas State message boards,” he said, “and there were guys reporting every month that it was imminent that the ‘Corners’ schools (Arizona, ASU, Utah and Colorado) were going to the Big 12.

“It was imminent in October. Then in November. And in January.

“But at the end of the day, we have to get a deal done. That’s the only thing that will quiet everybody down.”



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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34979 on: February 24, 2023, 01:53:43 PM »
That's a pretty bleak forecast that guy makes, I don't see it as over as he does in all those scenarios but I can see it being not great.

I would in general be totally fine at this point have the Zonas, Utah, and Colorado back, and becoming the for sure #3 conference in the US. Might let us figure out for leverage vs ACC when that time comes

I think I would rather just have the Arizona schools.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34980 on: February 24, 2023, 02:21:10 PM »
SDSU fans hope for invite, but will Pac-12 survive?

Mark Zeigler Columnist

We’ve seen this movie before.

Spoiler alert: It doesn’t end well.
In December 2011, San Diego State held a triumphant news conference in an athletic department auditorium to announce it was joining the Big East as a football-only member starting in the 2013-14 season, calling it “a very historic day in our history.”
Two years later, SDSU was holding another news conference in the same auditorium — this one to, gulp, say they were slinking back to the Mountain West Conference as the Big East collapsed.

A decade later, the university is on the verge of an invitation to the Pac-12, the Holy Grail for a proud institution that has largely operated on the fringes of college athletics, a panacea for a century-old inferiority complex among its fans, a ticket to the big time, a very historic day in its history.
And it might all happen.
But here’s the thing: It might not.
History tells us that. Logic should, too.

The question is less whether the Aztecs will be invited to join the Pac-12 (they will) but whether there will be a Pac-12 left to join, and the frustrating part is they’re powerless to do anything except wave their pennant on the sideline and wait, and hope, and pray.
The problems started last summer, when the elephants walked out of the zoo and the zookeeper didn’t notice they were gone. A year on the job, Pac-12 Commissioner George Kliavkoff was so dialed in with his conference that he was on vacation in Montana in an area with little cell service when news broke that USC and UCLA were bolting for the Big Ten starting in 2024.

The next move should have been to immediately secure a new media rights deal — and by extension, grant of rights agreements binding the remaining 10 members to the conference — instead of whining about who was leaving and trying to compel them to stay. Lock the gates first so the Wildcats, Ducks, Buffaloes and Huskies can’t escape before searching for the elephants.

UCLA was never coming back, not on its own volition or someone else’s. Enlisting Gov. Gavin Newsom and the University of California Board of Regents was a futile gesture that merely delayed media rights negotiations into October, then November, then December and now February.
It also allowed the Big 12 Conference to jump the line and finalize a five-year, $2.3 billion deal with ESPN and Fox Sports. The roughly $32 million per school per year is perhaps a tick under expectations. But it was made with linear TV partners (albeit with limited streaming on ESPN+) and has beat what some industry insiders project as a market bubble bursting.
And it leaves a Pac-12 minus its anchor schools scrambling, with money from viable linear networks rapidly drying up and the inevitable — and unenviable — pivot to streaming services like Amazon Prime and Apple TV+.

Even if the Pac-12 cobbles together a deal with ESPN and a streaming service that approximates the Big 12’s $32 million per year, the issue is less economics than exposure. Maybe in another decade or two, fans will willfully consume major live sports via a streaming app as opposed to flipping through TV channels on their couch and seeing what’s on, but the numbers are not there yet. Not even close.

If softball and tennis are on a streaming service, fine. If football and men’s basketball games are, that’s a problem. Kliavkoff will present a proposed deal to his presidents, who will ask their athletic directors, who will ask their football and men’s basketball coaches, who will swallow hard and say heck no.
Major League Soccer is giving it a go. It couldn’t get what it wanted from linear TV, so the league is gambling with Apple TV+, requiring a $99 per season pass ($79 if you already subscribe to Apple TV+) to see most games and team content.

But MLS’ demographic skews younger and may be more amenable to consuming games via a streaming app. College sports fans are typically much older — particularly the boosters who buy season tickets and bankroll the athletic department through donations.
Plus, MLS teams don’t have to recruit.

As Chris Vannini of The Athletic wrote about the Pac-12 and reports of courting Apple TV+: “A move to heavy streaming would dramatically decrease game viewership and threaten to speed the conference into irrelevancy. In a sport based around recruiting and donors, people need to find your games easily.”
Which brings us back to the movie screening before our eyes.
Will Arizona and Arizona State, Colorado and Utah, Oregon and Washington, stick with the Pac-12 and gamble on streaming? Or will they jump to the safe harbor of linear TV with the Big 12?

The Pac-12 is so convinced of its unanimity that it felt compelled to issue a statement last week telling us, explaining that they’ve had “positive conversations” on a new media rights deal and “remain highly confident in our future growth” and “united in our commitment to one another.”
Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark reads this, hears this, sees this … and laughs.

He’s simply waiting for Kliavkoff, a former Las Vegas hotel executive, to flip over his cards when the new Pac-12 media rights deal is complete. Then he’ll try to poach schools and dismantle his avowed rival.

If it’s for less money than the Big 12, it’s over. If it’s for similar money but has a significantly larger streaming component than the Big 12, it’s over. Even if it’s for slightly more money but still with a large number of games stuck behind a paywall, it still might be over.
Yormark had expansion provisions written into the Big 12’s contract. ESPN, which holds 63 percent of the rights, reportedly has agreed to pay full shares to new members coming from existing power conferences like the Pac-12 (but not Group of Five conferences like the Mountain West), or about $20 million per school per year. If Yormark can convince Fox to do the same, he could offer full shares.

The so-called Four Corners schools make sense from a geographical standpoint. Arizona and ASU deliver the Pacific time zone for part of the year as well as the Phoenix media market. Colorado used to be a member of the Big 12. Utah provides a natural rival and travel partner for newcomer BYU, which joins the Big 12 later this year.
But the biggest fish might be in the Pacific Northwest. Oregon and Washington have designs on following USC and UCLA to the Big Ten, but there’s speculation that Yormark can offer them lucrative TV money with an out clause if the Big Ten comes calling — which could happen if Notre Dame leaves the ranks of independents and spurs another round of conference realignment.

All it takes is one or two to swallow Yormark’s bait. Lifeboats will be in the water quickly.
Meanwhile, SDSU waves its pennant on the sideline and waits, and hopes, and prays.

[email protected]

Great article.

Let's get Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and Utah. The other Pac 12 schools will always be there to get if Oregon and Washington eventually leaves.

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34981 on: February 24, 2023, 05:15:12 PM »
Nice call, MIR.  The only thing I would add is ASU if UU doesn't want in.
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34982 on: February 24, 2023, 05:21:16 PM »
hi Kirk  :adios:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/02/21/pac-12-media-rights-nobody-spiraling-off-into-places-of-despair-as-process-nears-resolution-wsu-president-says/

Quote
“I follow the Kansas State message boards,” he said, “and there were guys reporting every month that it was imminent that the ‘Corners’ schools (Arizona, ASU, Utah and Colorado) were going to the Big 12.

“It was imminent in October. Then in November. And in January.

“But at the end of the day, we have to get a deal done. That’s the only thing that will quiet everybody down.”



@captaincrap

I had forgotten about captaincrap....can't wait until Schultz tell all memoir when he reveals that he often posted on Kansas State message boards under the Pseudonym "CaptainCrap" 

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34983 on: February 24, 2023, 07:17:29 PM »
SDSU fans hope for invite, but will Pac-12 survive?

Mark Zeigler Columnist

We’ve seen this movie before.

operated on the fringes of college athletics, a panacea for a century-old inferiority complex among its fans, a ticket to the big time, a very historic day in its history.
And it might all happen.
But here’s the thing: It might not.
History tells us that. Logic should, too.



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Great article.

Let's get Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and Utah. The other Pac 12 schools will always be there to get if Oregon and Washington eventually leaves.
Yea, if our leaders can see the forest, then they (we) make the death blow to the PAC with as few team additions as possible. Then wait for the ACC to lose their top teams  and choose the best of the rest.
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34986 on: February 24, 2023, 11:11:36 PM »
If FSU goes and gets more money, Clemson isn’t going to sit still. They will get their money one way or the other

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34987 on: February 24, 2023, 11:12:38 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

Offline nicname

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34988 on: February 25, 2023, 01:21:51 AM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

 :crossfingers: that we're in it
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34989 on: February 25, 2023, 01:00:17 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?

Offline wiley

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34990 on: February 25, 2023, 01:52:04 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?
Interested to see if the big brands in the SEC and Big10 decide they are deserving of larger shares than the smaller brands.  Would there be any fallout from that?


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34991 on: February 25, 2023, 02:03:08 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?

There only one right now.

Offline sys

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34992 on: February 25, 2023, 02:56:14 PM »
I can only read limestone and dax and seven call each other names so many times.

yeah.  i love the pit for what it could be, but the last interesting discussion in that subforum was probably about two years ago.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34993 on: February 25, 2023, 03:03:49 PM »
I can only read limestone and dax and seven call each other names so many times.

yeah.  i love the pit for what it could be, but the last interesting discussion in that subforum was probably about two years ago.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34994 on: February 25, 2023, 03:06:03 PM »
i'm human too.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34995 on: February 25, 2023, 05:33:34 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?

Eventually I think they'll run out of patience for providing college football access to other conferences.  Why wouldn't they just close it off and have it be for themselves only? 

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34996 on: February 25, 2023, 06:01:01 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?

Eventually I think they'll run out of patience for providing college football access to other conferences.  Why wouldn't they just close it off and have it be for themselves only?
How long before dead weight is cut, and the Vanderbilts and the Northwesterns are quietly ushered out? If it's really only about money why not shrink the conferences and bring in the best schools?  MSU, you've been banished back to Starkville. FSU, you're up. Goodbye Nebraska, hello ND.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34997 on: February 25, 2023, 06:26:06 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?

Eventually I think they'll run out of patience for providing college football access to other conferences.  Why wouldn't they just close it off and have it be for themselves only?

Because then very few people will care and college football will go the way of NASCAR.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34998 on: February 25, 2023, 08:27:31 PM »
I definitely think there will be two conferences in the highest level of college football someday.

How does this differ than now?

Eventually I think they'll run out of patience for providing college football access to other conferences.  Why wouldn't they just close it off and have it be for themselves only?

Because then very few people will care and college football will go the way of NASCAR.

Lol, probably even less. I think it's rich to think the top 20ish programs could hope to keep pulling in numbers year after year. It's not the freaking NFL, not even close, even the most dominant/big programs can barely hope to hold onto their own state. Unless you went there, or your pro team has sucked balls, no one cares.
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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #34999 on: February 25, 2023, 08:49:49 PM »
https://twitter.com/MBakerTBTimes/status/1629171365814194176
Holy crap

Thats just the buyout, ACC would still own their media rights until 2036 which would be another much larger buyout.