Are you "Upper Middle Class"?

[Emo EMAW]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/the-tipping-point-most-americans-no-longer-are-middle-class?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=thetwoway

So in 1971 60.8% of people were middle class, now they are 49.9%, a difference of 10.9% (percentage points, whatever).  At the same time the upper class grew from 14.0% to 21.1%, a difference of 7.1%, and the lower class grew by 3.8%.  So, really, more of those middle class people were able to elevate themselves to upper class than sunk into lower class.  This is a good thing, IMO.

[husserl]

Upper is just defined as twice the median though

[Cire]

Depends on number of people in family too I would think.

Debt should be a consideration to.  If you make 150k and owe 150k where does that put you?


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That just means you've probably built up quite a bit of equity in your home.

I was thinking college debt

[michigancat]

Depends on number of people in family too I would think.

Debt should be a consideration to.  If you make 150k and owe 150k where does that put you?


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That just means you've probably built up quite a bit of equity in your home.

I was thinking college debt

Then you're upper class

[8manpick]

Depends on number of people in family too I would think.

Debt should be a consideration to.  If you make 150k and owe 150k where does that put you?


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That just means you've probably built up quite a bit of equity in your home.

I was thinking college debt

Then you're upper class

Because you are probably a doctor or lawyer

[Asteriskhead]

man, i really don't have it that bad.

[Skipper44]

Also relevant: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/03/19/394057221/how-much-or-little-the-middle-class-makes-in-30-u-s-cities

I think being able to afford the average home in the best public school district in a metro is good dividing line for most places except NYC, SF.   

Trulia is telling me the average home in the BV school district is around $360k

CNN's Home Affordability Calculator is telling me if you can put 20% down ($72k) you can afford that the average house with a yearly salary of $62k with no debt.  That seems a little low but I will take CNN's 36% of gross as true unless someone has a better number or calculator.

I looked at Barrington, IL, the first Northside of Chicago school district that had more than 5,000 kids in it and is a top 10 school districts in IL.  Average house is $488k and you would need to make $80k if you could put $100k down.

I am not sure this is perfect but I would have no problem saying you are NOT Upper Middle class if you are under these numbers and the fact you need to make 30% more to live the same lifestyle in Chicago as KC sounds about right.

[sys]

360k house is too expensive for a 62k salary.

[Cire]

Yeah that sounds crazy


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[Kat Kid]

LOL at someone making $62K a year sitting on a nest egg of $70K. 

(actually Jeffy and his brother probably would try to argue this is the natural order of things, but they are gone.)

[Kat Kid]

I actually think a better rule of thumb for a first time home buyer with limited cash down is ~1.25-1.50 yearly household salary ~= cost of home.

[Skipper44]

I agree, a better calculator is needed but I would say the spread is correct other than the average house actually is can vary a great amount.  The 360k house in BV is likely 4 bed, 3 bath, 2 car garage with a minimum of 2,000 sq-ft and a basement.

I just looked up Alexandria, VA, one of the better school districts in DC, and the average home price is $500k but my buddy paid $625k for a 3 bd/2ba split level, no basement, no garage.  It was a flip job so the kitchen and baths are nicely redone but it still looks like a $150k house in Old OP.

[Skipper44]

LOL at someone making $62K a year sitting on a nest egg of $70K. 

(actually Jeffy and his brother probably would try to argue this is the natural order of things, but they are gone.)

I actually think a better rule of thumb for a first time home buyer with limited cash down is ~1.25-1.50 yearly household salary ~= cost of home.

The 20% down assumption is based on the premise that this is the 2 parent household with a couple of kids looking for the second home that they will stay in for the duration of the kids schooling and assuming they made at least some cash on the first home and saved some. 

[michigancat]

real estate sites always tell you that you can afford more than you can afford

[Skipper44]

real estate sites always tell you that you can afford more than you can afford

it looks like a cool mil is what it takes to buy the average home in palo alto (the best public school district in SF), will you likely rent your entire time in SF?

[slobber]

KatKid appears to be the only one who is considering the size of the mortgage.

I was getting pre approved one time and the mending company asked how much I wanted and she responded very quickly "oh, that is no problem, just let me run it through to verify." So I pressed her a bit and asked how much u could get approved for. Long story short, she said I could have approval for 2.5x what I had asked for. Not a fanningbrag, just an illustration as to how stupid lending companies are. I'd be bankrupt had I borrowed that much.


Gonna win 'em all!

[michigancat]

real estate sites always tell you that you can afford more than you can afford

it looks like a cool mil is what it takes to buy the average home in palo alto (the best public school district in SF), will you likely rent your entire time in SF?

a cool mil sounds low and yes I'll more than likely rent the entire time I live here.

[michigancat]

jeez

http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Palo_Alto-California/market-trends/

[CNS]

KatKid appears to be the only one who is considering the size of the mortgage.

I was getting pre approved one time and the mending company asked how much I wanted and she responded very quickly "oh, that is no problem, just let me run it through to verify." So I pressed her a bit and asked how much u could get approved for. Long story short, she said I could have approval for 2.5x what I had asked for. Not a fanningbrag, just an illustration as to how stupid lending companies are. I'd be bankrupt had I borrowed that much.


Gonna win 'em all!

Same here.  Bought my first house when I was 23.  It wasn't amazing, but it was a new build 1750SF house.  The bank told me I should be buying higher than I was.  Asked how much I could borrow and was told $350k.  was simultaneously 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah, the thought of people going out and buying homes based upon the amount their bank will approve is kind of scary.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Middle Class - The new plurality.

#thanksobama

[slobber]

Yeah, the thought of people going out and buying homes based upon the amount their bank will approve is kind of scary.

People are stupid though


Gonna win 'em all!

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Also relevant: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/03/19/394057221/how-much-or-little-the-middle-class-makes-in-30-u-s-cities

Amazing how many poor people are in NYC. I realize it's a huge place full of neighborhoods most people never go, but still.

Shame on you, Washington DC. Just sickening.

[Ptolemy]

This Marxist class crap is silly. What class does a guy that lives in the country, has a net worth of $50 million and lives within an annual budget of $10-$30K belong?

How about a family of 4 with a household income of $200K living paycheck-to-paycheck in a neighborhood with an average household income in the $300K range? Are they middle class?

[star seed 7]