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There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal.
I know there was a study on the performance of black applicants admitted to Michigan Law school, I believe, that were qualified for admittance but likely would have been denied if they had been white. The black students performed just as well as the "more qualified" white applicants. I'm away from a computer or I'd look it up for you.
Black students as a whole are at a substantial academic disadvantage when they attend schools that used preferences to admit them. As a consequence, they perform poorly as a group throughout law school. The median GPA of all black students at the end of the first year of law school lies roughly at the sixth percentile of the white grade distribution. Put differently, close to half of black students end up in the bottom tenth of their classes. This performance gap is entirely attributable to preferences; none of it seems to be attributable to race per se.
The clustering of black students near the bottom of the grade distribution produces substantially higher attrition rates. Entering black law students are 135% more likely than white students to not get a law degree. Part of this is the effect of low grades on academically strong black students who would have easily graduated from less competitive schools; part of this is the effect of high attrition among the five or six hundred academically weak black students admitted to the low-prestige law schools. But again, virtually all of the black-white gap seems attributable to preferences; virtually none of it seems attributable to race or to any correlate of race (such as income).
Generally low grades among blacks have even larger effects on bar performance. Blacks are nearly six times as likely as whites to not pass state bar exams after multiple attempts (blacks in this cohort were four times as likely to fail on their first attempt as whites). The difference, again, is mostly attributable to preferences. Half of the black-white bar passage gap is traceable to the effects of blacks with good credentials getting low grades at higher-prestige schools; nearly a quarter is due to low-prestige schools admitting blacks with lower credentials than almost any of the other students in the system.
Quote from: michigancat on August 28, 2014, 12:15:12 PMI know there was a study on the performance of black applicants admitted to Michigan Law school, I believe, that were qualified for admittance but likely would have been denied if they had been white. The black students performed just as well as the "more qualified" white applicants. I'm away from a computer or I'd look it up for you.I searched for that and I found this Stanford Law Review guy. I couldn't find yours. You might be aware of him. I hadn't really ever looked into it. http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/rubinfeldd/SanderFINAL.pdfQuoteBlack students as a whole are at a substantial academic disadvantage when they attend schools that used preferences to admit them. As a consequence, they perform poorly as a group throughout law school. The median GPA of all black students at the end of the first year of law school lies roughly at the sixth percentile of the white grade distribution. Put differently, close to half of black students end up in the bottom tenth of their classes. This performance gap is entirely attributable to preferences; none of it seems to be attributable to race per se. QuoteThe clustering of black students near the bottom of the grade distribution produces substantially higher attrition rates. Entering black law students are 135% more likely than white students to not get a law degree. Part of this is the effect of low grades on academically strong black students who would have easily graduated from less competitive schools; part of this is the effect of high attrition among the five or six hundred academically weak black students admitted to the low-prestige law schools. But again, virtually all of the black-white gap seems attributable to preferences; virtually none of it seems attributable to race or to any correlate of race (such as income).QuoteGenerally low grades among blacks have even larger effects on bar performance. Blacks are nearly six times as likely as whites to not pass state bar exams after multiple attempts (blacks in this cohort were four times as likely to fail on their first attempt as whites). The difference, again, is mostly attributable to preferences. Half of the black-white bar passage gap is traceable to the effects of blacks with good credentials getting low grades at higher-prestige schools; nearly a quarter is due to low-prestige schools admitting blacks with lower credentials than almost any of the other students in the system.
In probably one of the best validations of affirmative action, he talks about a study in which law students accepted to the University of Michigan through affirmative action got lower grades while in school, yet, when the students were evaluated later in life, (in Gladwell's words, "the only metric that counts") they were equally as successful as their supposedly smarter counterparts. Disadvantaged students may not start out at the same level as their culturally advantaged counterparts, but they are just as likely to succeed once given the opportunity to do so.
My grandpa has said something about there being some Indian blood in my family, so if I were applying for a job at Harvard, I would check the Native American box. I mean, I want to give myself every advantage.
Quote from: MakeItRain on August 28, 2014, 02:09:27 PMQuote from: Rage Against the McKee on August 28, 2014, 11:13:49 AMQuote from: Cartierfor3 on August 28, 2014, 11:12:07 AMOnly time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever. Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.That isn't true at all.To the larger point about affirmative action; CF3's buddy didn't not get the job because they had to hire black guys, if what RAtM said about Warren were true it isn't because of native americans. I'm sure that firehouse still has an overwhelming majority of white firefighters, I know that a majority of Harvard students are white. Affirmative Action programs simply put safeguards in place to make sure that underrepresented groups are getting a fair shake. There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal. Saying "I would have gotten that if they didn't give it to that equally qualified mexican" isn't institutional racism, it's like the opposite. Sorry, it should have said "get a job at Harvard." It's true that she might have gotten the job if she had not lied about her race, but it's doubtful she believed that. Otherwise, why lie about her race?
Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on August 28, 2014, 11:13:49 AMQuote from: Cartierfor3 on August 28, 2014, 11:12:07 AMOnly time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever. Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.That isn't true at all.To the larger point about affirmative action; CF3's buddy didn't not get the job because they had to hire black guys, if what RAtM said about Warren were true it isn't because of native americans. I'm sure that firehouse still has an overwhelming majority of white firefighters, I know that a majority of Harvard students are white. Affirmative Action programs simply put safeguards in place to make sure that underrepresented groups are getting a fair shake. There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal. Saying "I would have gotten that if they didn't give it to that equally qualified mexican" isn't institutional racism, it's like the opposite.
Quote from: Cartierfor3 on August 28, 2014, 11:12:07 AMOnly time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever. Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.
Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.
Quote from: Rage Against the McKee on August 28, 2014, 02:36:23 PMMy grandpa has said something about there being some Indian blood in my family, so if I were applying for a job at Harvard, I would check the Native American box. I mean, I want to give myself every advantage.Do you have high cheekbones? Gotta have high cheekbones for that to work.
What I found out was that my grandfather wasn't Cherokee, but was Muscogee Creek (Carrie Underwood is also Muscogee but her family is from a different nation than mine). Anyway I'm inclined to believe her because in Oklahoma her story isn't at all unusual.
Quote from: MakeItRain on August 29, 2014, 12:29:19 AM What I found out was that my grandfather wasn't Cherokee, but was Muscogee Creek (Carrie Underwood is also Muscogee but her family is from a different nation than mine). Anyway I'm inclined to believe her because in Oklahoma her story isn't at all unusual.I really enjoyed this.
I'm going to uppercut punch the next bad person who talks bad about Elizabeth Warren.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/29/minnesota_taser_video_christopher_lollie_of_st_paul_tased_in_front_of_children.html
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting
I would have shown them my ID.
Quote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on August 29, 2014, 11:08:32 AMI would have shown them my ID.You wouldn't have been asked to show ID or even talked to at all.
Quote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on August 29, 2014, 11:08:32 AMI would have shown them my ID.Why?
Quote from: Dugout DickStone on August 29, 2014, 12:36:44 PMQuote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on August 29, 2014, 11:08:32 AMI would have shown them my ID.Why?Because he wouldn't be frustrated by constantly being hassled by the police. How one deals with police officers likely has something to do with past experiences. If you don't have a frame of reference for dealing with hostile cops you're likely to view the request as basic and will comply. John Doug needs to understand that not everyone has the relationship with the police that he does.
Quote from: Dugout DickStone on August 29, 2014, 12:36:44 PMQuote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on August 29, 2014, 11:08:32 AMI would have shown them my ID.Why?So I don't get tazed? This guy probably has some sort of settlement coming. Second cop overreacted, but we can't see everything that happened.
Quote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on August 29, 2014, 01:49:46 PMQuote from: Dugout DickStone on August 29, 2014, 12:36:44 PMQuote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on August 29, 2014, 11:08:32 AMI would have shown them my ID.Why?So I don't get tazed? This guy probably has some sort of settlement coming. Second cop overreacted, but we can't see everything that happened.norent a cop was a dumb bitch with no right to ask for IDcop cop was a bag and could have de-escalated the situation and tried to be a hardass with the "I'm not your brother" crap.