StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[Trim]

But seriously, the statute says he has to deliberate upon the matter for it to be first degree murder. A situation like this does not meet that criteria.

There are just an astounding number of conflicting reports, but from what I have gathered, the cop shot him once while he was running away, then he put his hands up and said "I'm unarmed, don't shoot!" before the cop shot him a few more times for good measure.

You can't see when and where the deliberation happened?

It's boring, but prosecutors always have to explain that deliberation in the statute isn't the deliberation you think of in a lifetime movie, and make sure the jury instructions explain the meaning in the statute.  When done adequately, the jury can understand it.

I got premeditation/deliberation for some point in time between stabbing #1 and stabbing #17, even while acknowledging that the first stabbing wasn't premeditated and that I couldn't say which stabbing was the first premeditated one. 

This shooting, if the facts are given to the jury as you laid them out, is easy.

The police said the suspect was in the hospital receiving treatment for his injuries. If he was beaten up, I think it is somewhat reasonable to believe that he was not in a state of mind to deliberate anything during the short time period in which this happened.

Do you have an example of a killing that would be second degree murder?

At this point, I'd just blow a peremptory on you if I couldn't find a cause.

[chuckjames]

Boom. No correlation between the stop and the burglary.

Yea, then why release the info about the burglary today? I cant think of a way the PD hasnt effed this thing up.

Because the press kept submitting f.o.i.s?

But the press hasnt been submitting F.O. I.s about the shooting? If youre going to release the burglary do it when you release info on the shooting too.

[SdK]

Boom. No correlation between the stop and the burglary.

Yea, then why release the info about the burglary today? I cant think of a way the PD hasnt effed this thing up.

Because the press kept submitting f.o.i.s?

But the press hasnt been submitting F.O. I.s about the shooting? If youre going to release the burglary do it when you release info on the shooting too.

I thought that should have been the way it was done as well. Don't call a press conference til you've finished your investigation. Have a prepared statement answering probable questions and call it a day

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

A correlation between the robbery and the shooting is only relevant to the cop's state of mind. If he thought Brown had just committed a robbery (and was therefore possibly armed) in addition to attacking him, it provides greater justification for shooting him, even if he was trying to escape. If the cop did not stop Brown on suspicion of the shooting, he can't provide this excuse.

However, Brown's thuggish conduct just minutes does provide evidence that was an aggressor who initiated the fight with the cop.

Also, is anyone else's mind just blown that edna is more deferential to the cop in this case than I am?

[Rage Against the McKee]

But seriously, the statute says he has to deliberate upon the matter for it to be first degree murder. A situation like this does not meet that criteria.

There are just an astounding number of conflicting reports, but from what I have gathered, the cop shot him once while he was running away, then he put his hands up and said "I'm unarmed, don't shoot!" before the cop shot him a few more times for good measure.

You can't see when and where the deliberation happened?

It's boring, but prosecutors always have to explain that deliberation in the statute isn't the deliberation you think of in a lifetime movie, and make sure the jury instructions explain the meaning in the statute.  When done adequately, the jury can understand it.

I got premeditation/deliberation for some point in time between stabbing #1 and stabbing #17, even while acknowledging that the first stabbing wasn't premeditated and that I couldn't say which stabbing was the first premeditated one. 

This shooting, if the facts are given to the jury as you laid them out, is easy.

The police said the suspect was in the hospital receiving treatment for his injuries. If he was beaten up, I think it is somewhat reasonable to believe that he was not in a state of mind to deliberate anything during the short time period in which this happened.

Do you have an example of a killing that would be second degree murder?

At this point, I'd just blow a peremptory on you if I couldn't find a cause.

So no example of a second degree murder, then?

[ChiComCat]

A correlation between the robbery and the shooting is only relevant to the cop's state of mind. If he thought Brown had just committed a robbery (and was therefore possibly armed) in addition to attacking him, it provides greater justification for shooting him, even if he was trying to escape. If the cop did not stop Brown on suspicion of the shooting, he can't provide this excuse.

However, Brown's thuggish conduct just minutes does provide evidence that was an aggressor who initiated the fight with the cop.

Also, is anyone else's mind just blown that edna is more deferential to the cop in this case than I am?

Judging by the description of the robbery, I see no reason to assume the kid was armed.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah, the robbery is hardly relevant. There just isn't any justification for unloading a gun into an unarmed man.

[MakeItRain]

https://twitter.com/kyssthis16/status/500303440891744256

 

Do you honestly believe that wasn't him?

It looks like the same outfit. Yes. I'm more astonished at my ability to have a 1080p video camera for 150 dollars and how cacky that convenience store video is.

Whether it was him or not has no bearing on gunning him down imo.

Couldnt agree more, just saying the people trying to say it wasnt him are as biased as the cops. But no matter what we are all biased in a situation like this. No matter what you think, you bring inherent biases into a situation like this.

I can't speak for anyone else but my doubt about whether or not the robber and Brown were the same guy our if the cops thought they were the same guy comes from this, which I'm not sure how you missed.

On Tuesday, Jackson told me #MichaelBrown was not being questioned as a suspect in a crime when he was stopped. So.....yeah....
9:08am - 15 Aug 14

So if they were there and they aren't sure, if it was him, how can you be?

who is that twitter source?

and lets play with that a little more.  "hey you there stop, you're wanted for robbery!"   or "hey, guys, can I talk to you for a second?  You (insert piddly crime like jaywalking here) back there and just want to talk for a second."

The source is a journalist in StL, Rusty had it linked like two posts after the twitter link in this conversation strand. Did you and chuck both miss it, you both had posts on that page?

[kim carnes]

Well, we know brown was a POS human being.

[SdK]

Yes on edn.

Mike Brown knew he had just committed a crime and probably acted in such a manner. I have no idea why he was walking down the middle of the street. I'm sure an altercation ensued. Who instigated it, I really don't care. I can't wrap my head around losing a fight and them shooting the crap out of someone. I just can't fathom that mindset. It is beyond me.

A lot of idiots asking questions at the press conference, who the eff are those people? A lot of idiots being interviewed in the town of Ferguson as well.

The police department is idiotic in their handling of releasing information. Giving press conferences, etc. All the way around this situation pisses me off.

It seems to me like they are waiting for things to calm down before they announce their findings and things won't calm down until they do. I seriously don't understand how it takes a week to decide whether charges will be filed or not.

[Trim]

But seriously, the statute says he has to deliberate upon the matter for it to be first degree murder. A situation like this does not meet that criteria.

There are just an astounding number of conflicting reports, but from what I have gathered, the cop shot him once while he was running away, then he put his hands up and said "I'm unarmed, don't shoot!" before the cop shot him a few more times for good measure.

You can't see when and where the deliberation happened?

It's boring, but prosecutors always have to explain that deliberation in the statute isn't the deliberation you think of in a lifetime movie, and make sure the jury instructions explain the meaning in the statute.  When done adequately, the jury can understand it.

I got premeditation/deliberation for some point in time between stabbing #1 and stabbing #17, even while acknowledging that the first stabbing wasn't premeditated and that I couldn't say which stabbing was the first premeditated one. 

This shooting, if the facts are given to the jury as you laid them out, is easy.

The police said the suspect was in the hospital receiving treatment for his injuries. If he was beaten up, I think it is somewhat reasonable to believe that he was not in a state of mind to deliberate anything during the short time period in which this happened.

Do you have an example of a killing that would be second degree murder?

At this point, I'd just blow a peremptory on you if I couldn't find a cause.

So no example of a second degree murder, then?

You've already been excused.  You can get parking validated in the clerk's office.

[MakeItRain]

Well, we know brown was a POS human being.

There's only heavyweights here kim, you've tried this like five times, it won't work, we are all KC fans. This stuff is fish in a barrel for you on the football and basketball boards, keep it there and don't damage your brand.

[michigancat]

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/

[chuckjames]

https://twitter.com/kyssthis16/status/500303440891744256

 

Do you honestly believe that wasn't him?

It looks like the same outfit. Yes. I'm more astonished at my ability to have a 1080p video camera for 150 dollars and how cacky that convenience store video is.

Whether it was him or not has no bearing on gunning him down imo.

Couldnt agree more, just saying the people trying to say it wasnt him are as biased as the cops. But no matter what we are all biased in a situation like this. No matter what you think, you bring inherent biases into a situation like this.

I can't speak for anyone else but my doubt about whether or not the robber and Brown were the same guy our if the cops thought they were the same guy comes from this, which I'm not sure how you missed.

On Tuesday, Jackson told me #MichaelBrown was not being questioned as a suspect in a crime when he was stopped. So.....yeah....
9:08am - 15 Aug 14

So if they were there and they aren't sure, if it was him, how can you be?

who is that twitter source?

and lets play with that a little more.  "hey you there stop, you're wanted for robbery!"   or "hey, guys, can I talk to you for a second?  You (insert piddly crime like jaywalking here) back there and just want to talk for a second."

The source is a journalist in StL, Rusty had it linked like two posts after the twitter link in this conversation strand. Did you and chuck both miss it, you both had posts on that page?

No I saw it. Again I think its quite clear its him. But now that the cops are admitting the robbery had nothing to do with the shooting, its mind blowing that they released the info today. I just assumed they would only release that info because it related to the shooting. But i underestimated the stupidity of the Ferguson PD apparently.

[MakeItRain]

Yes on edn.

Mike Brown knew he had just committed a crime and probably acted in such a manner. I have no idea why he was walking down the middle of the street. I'm sure an altercation ensued. Who instigated it, I really don't care. I can't wrap my head around losing a fight and them shooting the crap out of someone. I just can't fathom that mindset. It is beyond me.

A lot of idiots asking questions at the press conference, who the eff are those people? A lot of idiots being interviewed in the town of Ferguson as well.

The police department is idiotic in their handling of releasing information. Giving press conferences, etc. All the way around this situation pisses me off.

It seems to me like they are waiting for things to calm down before they announce their findings and things won't calm down until they do. I seriously don't understand how it takes a week to decide whether charges will be filed or not.

It's a federal case, it will/should take a minimum of a couple of weeks. They don't behave like local authorities and charge with even the slightest evidence. When the feds get you, they generally cover their asses and they don't lose.

I don't think they were waiting for things to calm down, well maybe they did the first two days, but not after that. I think they were trying to get him hidden but accessible to the feds and coordinating security for his property and potential family in the area.

[chuckjames]

Its like the Ferguson Police Chief was watching Fox News and realized they were running out of talking points so he decided to give them more.

[chuckjames]

Yes on edn.

Mike Brown knew he had just committed a crime and probably acted in such a manner. I have no idea why he was walking down the middle of the street. I'm sure an altercation ensued. Who instigated it, I really don't care. I can't wrap my head around losing a fight and them shooting the crap out of someone. I just can't fathom that mindset. It is beyond me.

A lot of idiots asking questions at the press conference, who the eff are those people? A lot of idiots being interviewed in the town of Ferguson as well.

The police department is idiotic in their handling of releasing information. Giving press conferences, etc. All the way around this situation pisses me off.

It seems to me like they are waiting for things to calm down before they announce their findings and things won't calm down until they do. I seriously don't understand how it takes a week to decide whether charges will be filed or not.

It's a federal case, it will/should take a minimum of a couple of weeks. They don't behave like local authorities and charge with even the slightest evidence. When the feds get you, they generally cover their asses and they don't lose.

I don't think they were waiting for things to calm down, well maybe they did the first two days, but not after that. I think they were trying to get him hidden but accessible to the feds and coordinating security for his property and potential family in the area.

Are you sure it will be a federal case??

[420seriouscat69]

Well, we know brown was a POS human being.

There's only heavyweights here kim, you've tried this like five times, it won't work, we are all KC fans. This stuff is fish in a barrel for you on the football and basketball boards, keep it there and don't damage your brand.

[SdK]

Yes on edn.

Mike Brown knew he had just committed a crime and probably acted in such a manner. I have no idea why he was walking down the middle of the street. I'm sure an altercation ensued. Who instigated it, I really don't care. I can't wrap my head around losing a fight and them shooting the crap out of someone. I just can't fathom that mindset. It is beyond me.

A lot of idiots asking questions at the press conference, who the eff are those people? A lot of idiots being interviewed in the town of Ferguson as well.

The police department is idiotic in their handling of releasing information. Giving press conferences, etc. All the way around this situation pisses me off.

It seems to me like they are waiting for things to calm down before they announce their findings and things won't calm down until they do. I seriously don't understand how it takes a week to decide whether charges will be filed or not.

It's a federal case, it will/should take a minimum of a couple of weeks. They don't behave like local authorities and charge with even the slightest evidence. When the feds get you, they generally cover their asses and they don't lose.

I don't think they were waiting for things to calm down, well maybe they did the first two days, but not after that. I think they were trying to get him hidden but accessible to the feds and coordinating security for his property and potential family in the area.

Makes sense and I fear that because of this, the determination will be less about justice and more about w/l and of a political nature. I'm going to have to try and disengage from this story until the determination is made.

I am still placing all of my rage at the SLCPD, and not thinking clearly about it as a whole.

[MakeItRain]

No I saw it. Again I think its quite clear its him. But now that the cops are admitting the robbery had nothing to do with the shooting, its mind blowing that they released the info today. I just assumed they would only release that info because it related to the shooting. But i underestimated the stupidity of the Ferguson PD apparently.

There's a lot that make absolutely no sense. Michael Brown had no record, it seems like essentially stealing cigars out of a store owners hand and then going hand-to-hand combat with a cop are the actions of someone who is quite comfortable with committing crime.

[WillieWatanabe]

so the release of the robbery video has pretty interesting timing. Good lord.

[MakeItRain]

Yes on edn.

Mike Brown knew he had just committed a crime and probably acted in such a manner. I have no idea why he was walking down the middle of the street. I'm sure an altercation ensued. Who instigated it, I really don't care. I can't wrap my head around losing a fight and them shooting the crap out of someone. I just can't fathom that mindset. It is beyond me.

A lot of idiots asking questions at the press conference, who the eff are those people? A lot of idiots being interviewed in the town of Ferguson as well.

The police department is idiotic in their handling of releasing information. Giving press conferences, etc. All the way around this situation pisses me off.

It seems to me like they are waiting for things to calm down before they announce their findings and things won't calm down until they do. I seriously don't understand how it takes a week to decide whether charges will be filed or not.

It's a federal case, it will/should take a minimum of a couple of weeks. They don't behave like local authorities and charge with even the slightest evidence. When the feds get you, they generally cover their asses and they don't lose.

I don't think they were waiting for things to calm down, well maybe they did the first two days, but not after that. I think they were trying to get him hidden but accessible to the feds and coordinating security for his property and potential family in the area.

Are you sure it will be a federal case??

Trim can chime in here but I don't think it is standard for the feds to investigate a case and then hand it off to someone else if they find charges are necessary.

[chuckjames]

https://twitter.com/7im/timelines/499639344613695488

Someone live tweeted the shooting. Can this be introduced into evidence? halfway serious question.

[Trim]

https://twitter.com/7im/timelines/499639344613695488

Was just about to luke this.

[kim carnes]

It's laughable that you guys are outraged about the timing of the release of that video. Like, you're so biased.  It happened, they should release it.