StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[star seed 7]

chef_09

Almost on scholarship
Post #869
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Re: Wow, St Louis area sounds out of control and dangerous   Reply
I love how so many on this board just assume the teen was guilty and deserved to be shot. You do realize there are racist cops out there still.  Racism still exists... Just yesterday, my father in law stopped in a McDonalds in rural Brookfield, MO on his way back from Chicago.  He was wearing a blues tshirt that had an old black musician on it.  While ordering a man came up and asked why he had a n***** on his shirt?  Then when he was leaving, another family was giving him the bird as he walked out.   
8/12 8:25 AM | IP: Logged

wut

[EMAWmeister]

This whole situation is so mumped. They're just going to be "demilitarized" and pretend the last few nights never happened.

[j-dub]

thank goodness for ronald johnson.

and anyone who tries to contend that this kid did anything to deserve being shot.. much less killed.. doesn't deserve the right to hold an opinion on anything (not so much as whether a cheeseburger tastes good) until they've taken a cold hard look in the mirror and acknowledged that their fellow human beings are of inestimable worth and are to be treated as such.

[p1k3]

 

This whole situation is so mumped. They're just going to be "demilitarized" and pretend the last few nights never happened.

Fuckers are gonna get away with it

[Spracne]

thank goodness for ronald johnson.

and anyone who tries to contend that this kid did anything to deserve being shot.. much less killed.. doesn't deserve the right to hold an opinion on anything (not so much as whether a cheeseburger tastes good) until they've taken a cold hard look in the mirror and acknowledged that their fellow human beings are of inestimable worth and are to be treated as such.

[star seed 7]

@mocat

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Wait - were the ranchers looting and burning stores? I did not hear about that.

I think the Ferguson police need to try their best to not harass, detain, or harm the peaceful protestors - but I suspect that's sometimes easier said than done when the vandals and looters are intermixed among the protests. If I were a protestor, I'd probably go down to city hall and protest there - not in the middle of the violence. Seems like a bad to place to be if I don't want to get tear gassed.

Actually that's what started this whole thing. The police harassing and shooting someone

Sounds like Michael Brown did something really stupid - though that still might not justify him being shot. Again, let's get the facts.

You keep talking about not passing judgment and for all of the facts but you keep finding ways to assign Brown some fault for getting shot despite eye witnesses starting that he didn't do anything wrong.

I have not said that Brown deserved to be shot. I have simply pointed out that Brown put himself in a bad position. At the very least, there is agreement on both sides that they were walking down the middle of the street, the cop told them to get on the sidewalk, and they refused. That alone is pretty stupid if you ask me. From there, the stories diverge. The cop says Brown shoved him back in his vehicle as he tried to get out. The eye witness (who was Brown's friend) says the cop grabbed Brown and pulled him into the car. So far based in just the two stories, I believe the cop, as why the hell would a cop try pulling a dude named "Big Mike" into the squad car? From there on, I don't know what to believe, but I am certainly skeptical that Brown needed to be shot multiple times nearly 35 feet away from the officer.

So again, I'm not saying the shooting was justified - I'm skeptical of that - but stop pretending Brown didn't do something stupid just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[michigancat]

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Paul Moscow]

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I mostly agree with him but this has everything to do with the influence the military has over government - the size of government big, small, or otherwise is of little consequence compared to a military that can assert its will against a sold out congress.

That notwithstanding, is Rand Paul going to run on a platform of decreasing military spending and non-interventionism when push comes to shove? If he is he could come out of this looking pretty good.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Hackers got the Ferguson police officer's SSN.

[SkinnyBenny]

I think one really important question we need to have answered immediately is...what does Joe Montgomery have to say about all this?

[Rage Against the McKee]

chef_09

Almost on scholarship
Post #869
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Re: Wow, St Louis area sounds out of control and dangerous   Reply
I love how so many on this board just assume the teen was guilty and deserved to be shot. You do realize there are racist cops out there still.  Racism still exists... Just yesterday, my father in law stopped in a McDonalds in rural Brookfield, MO on his way back from Chicago.  He was wearing a blues tshirt that had an old black musician on it.  While ordering a man came up and asked why he had a n***** on his shirt?  Then when he was leaving, another family was giving him the bird as he walked out.   
8/12 8:25 AM | IP: Logged

wut

That's SEC country.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think one really important question we need to have answered immediately is...what does Joe Montgomery have to say about all this?

If I had to take a guess, he probably thinks all of these animals should just go back to Africa where they belong.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Wait - were the ranchers looting and burning stores? I did not hear about that.

I think the Ferguson police need to try their best to not harass, detain, or harm the peaceful protestors - but I suspect that's sometimes easier said than done when the vandals and looters are intermixed among the protests. If I were a protestor, I'd probably go down to city hall and protest there - not in the middle of the violence. Seems like a bad to place to be if I don't want to get tear gassed.

Actually that's what started this whole thing. The police harassing and shooting someone

Sounds like Michael Brown did something really stupid - though that still might not justify him being shot. Again, let's get the facts.

You keep talking about not passing judgment and for all of the facts but you keep finding ways to assign Brown some fault for getting shot despite eye witnesses starting that he didn't do anything wrong.

I have not said that Brown deserved to be shot. I have simply pointed out that Brown put himself in a bad position. At the very least, there is agreement on both sides that they were walking down the middle of the street, the cop told them to get on the sidewalk, and they refused. That alone is pretty stupid if you ask me. From there, the stories diverge. The cop says Brown shoved him back in his vehicle as he tried to get out. The eye witness (who was Brown's friend) says the cop grabbed Brown and pulled him into the car. So far based in just the two stories, I believe the cop, as why the hell would a cop try pulling a dude named "Big Mike" into the squad car? From there on, I don't know what to believe, but I am certainly skeptical that Brown needed to be shot multiple times nearly 35 feet away from the officer.

So again, I'm not saying the shooting was justified - I'm skeptical of that - but stop pretending Brown didn't do something stupid just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Yeah, we don't know all of the details, but it sure sounds like there was more than 1 officer at the scene and we also know that this same police force arrested a journalist in a McDonalds for taking a photo. It sounds like the kid got violent with a police officer, so it's not as bad as the Trayvon Martin situation, but it's still pretty awful. I would like to see murder charges filed on the cop.

[MakeItRain]

How does outside of a shove someone the back getting out of a car?

[MakeItRain]

OMG that news conference and timeline

[ednksu]

welp cops name is officially out
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-fergsuon-shooting-police-name-20140815-story.html

[ednksu]

Gilbert Arenas doesn't like Al
http://www.tmz.com/2014/08/14/gilbert-arenas-michael-brown-shot-riots-al-sharpton/

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How does outside of a shove someone the back getting out of a car?

Rephrase the question, please.

Again, the friend doesn't deny that Brown and the cop got in a physical struggle while the cop was still seated in his vehicle. So the question is, what's more believable? That Brown shoved the officer back into the vehicle as he was trying to get out, or that the officer decided to latch onto Brown and pull him into the vehicle from a seated position? That just doesn't make any sense. Even if the officer was pissed and behaving irrationally, you don't grab a big dude from a seated position - you get out of your vehicle to assert your authoritay. So up to that point I believe the cop.

It also doesn't make sense why you shoot an unarmed assailant multiple times 35 feet away from you. So both stories are in doubt, but without more facts the best I can surmise is that Brown very stupidly attacked the cop, and the cop then very stupidly overreacted and shot a retreating Brown.

[michigancat]

OMG that news conference and timeline

They had it in front of the quiktrip. Really? Really.

[ednksu]

Washington Post piece on the demographic changes of Ferguson
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/14/visualizing-the-rapid-racial-change-in-ferguson-over-the-past-decade/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1

[420seriouscat69]

My coworker decided to give her side of the story at this mornings Friday meeting. She said she use to live in the area and she'd get pulled over all the time for her race. She said one time she got a $2000 ticket for no reason. She also said that since St. Louis is mostly a Republican area (pretty sure she was saying republicans are racist) and because of that there's been tension with that community ever since Obama was elected. We all have our opinions and I know we all come from different walks of life, but I was definitely  this morning. Mainly cause she was saying she would have looted the QT too to show her respects for the young man who had fallen and that republicans are racist talking point.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Yeah, we don't know all of the details, but it sure sounds like there was more than 1 officer at the scene and we also know that this same police force arrested a journalist in a McDonalds for taking a photo. It sounds like the kid got violent with a police officer, so it's not as bad as the Trayvon Martin situation, but it's still pretty awful. I would like to see murder charges filed on the cop.

It's interesting that you think this is not as bad as the TM shooting because Brown (likely) attacked a cop, but it's actually just the opposite from a self-defense standpoint.

When it comes to justifiable shooting, the relevant question is not so much the preceding events (outside of illegal preceding events, and GZ was not breaking the law), but whether the shooter had a reasonable belief of imminent threat of grave bodily harm or death at the time of the shooting. In the TM case, the physical evidence (wounds to GZ head) and eyewitness testimony (TM on top) provided much greater support for GZ having such a belief. The cop appears to have a much weaker case due to eye witness testimony and the distance away from Brown at the time of the shooting.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

My coworker decided to give her side of the story at this mornings Friday meeting. She said she use to live in the area and she'd get pulled over all the time for her race. She said one time she got a $2000 ticket for no reason. She also said that since St. Louis is mostly a Republican area (pretty sure she was saying republicans are racist) and because of that there's been tension with that community ever since Obama was elected. We all have our opinions and I know we all come from different walks of life, but I was definitely  this morning. Mainly cause she was saying she would have looted the QT too to show her respects for the young man who had fallen and that republicans are racist, talking point.

A $2000 ticket for no reason? Wow - I'd like to hear more about that.

St. Louis is "mostly a Republican area"? Hmmm...

She would have looted the QT too to show her respects for Brown?

Your coworker sounds like a nutjob.