StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[Rage Against the McKee]

My grandpa has said something about there being some Indian blood in my family, so if I were applying for a job at Harvard, I would check the Native American box. I mean, I want to give myself every advantage.

[Emo EMAW]

My buddy who's half Mexican, last name is similar to like Rodriguez or something, applying to firms after law school, is the whitest looking half Mexican you've ever seen.  Anyway he applies to some top firm and to his surprise gets an interview.  They pretty much in-and-outed him after they saw how white he looked. 

[DQ12]

There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal.

Universities aren't legally forced to take a quota of minorities or anything.  But on their own, they do take minorities who, relative to white counterparts, are underqualified.  They do this to create a diverse learning environment. 

I think the "diverse learning environment" rationale is bogus.  But at least in law school admissions, I have no problem with the system on the grounds that facilitating minorities to become well-educated attorneys is an important end.

[Mr Bread]

I know there was a study on the performance of black applicants admitted to Michigan Law school, I believe, that were qualified for admittance but likely would have been denied if they had been white. The black students performed just as well as the "more qualified" white applicants. I'm away from a computer or I'd look it up for you.

I searched for that and I found this Stanford Law Review guy.  I couldn't find yours.  You might be aware of him.  I hadn't really ever looked into it. 

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/rubinfeldd/SanderFINAL.pdf

Black students as a whole are at a substantial academic disadvantage when they attend schools that used preferences to admit them. As a consequence, they perform poorly as a group throughout law school. The median GPA of all black students at the end of the first year of law school lies roughly at the sixth percentile of the white grade distribution. Put differently, close to half of black students end up in the bottom tenth of their classes. This performance gap is entirely attributable to preferences; none of it seems to be attributable to race per se.

The clustering of black students near the bottom of the grade distribution produces substantially higher attrition rates. Entering black law students are 135% more likely than white students to not get a law degree. Part of this is the effect of low grades on academically strong black students who would have easily graduated from less competitive schools; part of this is the effect of high attrition among the five or six hundred academically weak black students admitted to the low-prestige law schools. But again, virtually all of the black-white gap seems attributable to preferences; virtually none of it seems attributable to race or to any correlate of race (such as income).

Generally low grades among blacks have even larger effects on bar performance. Blacks are nearly six times as likely as whites to not pass state bar exams after multiple attempts (blacks in this cohort were four times as likely to fail on their first attempt as whites). The difference, again, is mostly attributable to preferences. Half of the black-white bar passage gap is traceable to the effects of blacks with good credentials getting low grades at higher-prestige schools; nearly a quarter is due to low-prestige schools admitting blacks with lower credentials than almost any of the other students in the system.

[michigancat]

I know there was a study on the performance of black applicants admitted to Michigan Law school, I believe, that were qualified for admittance but likely would have been denied if they had been white. The black students performed just as well as the "more qualified" white applicants. I'm away from a computer or I'd look it up for you.

I searched for that and I found this Stanford Law Review guy.  I couldn't find yours.  You might be aware of him.  I hadn't really ever looked into it. 

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/rubinfeldd/SanderFINAL.pdf

Black students as a whole are at a substantial academic disadvantage when they attend schools that used preferences to admit them. As a consequence, they perform poorly as a group throughout law school. The median GPA of all black students at the end of the first year of law school lies roughly at the sixth percentile of the white grade distribution. Put differently, close to half of black students end up in the bottom tenth of their classes. This performance gap is entirely attributable to preferences; none of it seems to be attributable to race per se.

The clustering of black students near the bottom of the grade distribution produces substantially higher attrition rates. Entering black law students are 135% more likely than white students to not get a law degree. Part of this is the effect of low grades on academically strong black students who would have easily graduated from less competitive schools; part of this is the effect of high attrition among the five or six hundred academically weak black students admitted to the low-prestige law schools. But again, virtually all of the black-white gap seems attributable to preferences; virtually none of it seems attributable to race or to any correlate of race (such as income).

Generally low grades among blacks have even larger effects on bar performance. Blacks are nearly six times as likely as whites to not pass state bar exams after multiple attempts (blacks in this cohort were four times as likely to fail on their first attempt as whites). The difference, again, is mostly attributable to preferences. Half of the black-white bar passage gap is traceable to the effects of blacks with good credentials getting low grades at higher-prestige schools; nearly a quarter is due to low-prestige schools admitting blacks with lower credentials than almost any of the other students in the system.

Yeah, I went back and looked and that study I mentioned was cited in a Gladwell book (Outliers). I'd look for the study, but I'm kinda busy right now. So I may want to pump the brakes for now since I generally think Gladwell is full of crap.

In probably one of the best validations of affirmative action, he talks about a study in which law students accepted to the University of Michigan through affirmative action got lower grades while in school, yet, when the students were evaluated later in life, (in Gladwell's words, "the only metric that counts") they were equally as successful as their supposedly smarter counterparts.   Disadvantaged students may not start out at the same level as their culturally advantaged counterparts, but they are just as likely to succeed once given the opportunity to do so.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/17/902625/-Book-Report-How-Malcolm-Gladwell-s-OUTLIERS-Validates-the-Values-We-Hold-Most-Dear

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

 

My grandpa has said something about there being some Indian blood in my family, so if I were applying for a job at Harvard, I would check the Native American box. I mean, I want to give myself every advantage.

Do you have high cheekbones? Gotta have high cheekbones for that to work.

[MakeItRain]

Only time I've ever heard of institutional racism hurting a white person I knew in real life was when a dude was trying to become a firefighter, and they were hiring black guys ahead of him because the dept. wanted more diversity. Then he went and got another job and was fine anyway. I'm sure there's some, but I've never really seen or experienced it like, ever.

Elizabeth Warren had to lie about her race to get into Harvard.

That isn't true at all.


To the larger point about affirmative action; CF3's buddy didn't not get the job because they had to hire black guys, if what RAtM said about Warren were true it isn't because of native americans. I'm sure that firehouse still has an overwhelming majority of white firefighters, I know that a majority of Harvard students are white. Affirmative Action programs simply put safeguards in place to make sure that underrepresented groups are getting a fair shake. There are no cases of affirmative action forcing universities or employers to take underqualified minorities in lieu of qualified whites, that's illegal. Saying "I would have gotten that if they didn't give it to that equally qualified mexican" isn't institutional racism, it's like the opposite.

Sorry, it should have said "get a job at Harvard." It's true that she might have gotten the job if she had not lied about her race, but it's doubtful she believed that. Otherwise, why lie about her race?

But it wasn't proven that she lied about her race. She said she thought she was Cherokee because her mother told her that she was. It is not at all for Oklahoma natives to have native lineage that they lost touch with. I was told that my grandfather was Cherokee, and I thought so for years. A couple of years ago I started a project to find out what my lineage is because all four of my grandparents died either before I was born or when I was very young. What I found out was that my grandfather wasn't Cherokee, but was Muscogee Creek (Carrie Underwood is also Muscogee but her family is from a different nation than mine). Anyway I'm inclined to believe her because in Oklahoma her story isn't at all unusual.

My grandpa has said something about there being some Indian blood in my family, so if I were applying for a job at Harvard, I would check the Native American box. I mean, I want to give myself every advantage.

Do you have high cheekbones? Gotta have high cheekbones for that to work.

hur hur hur

[nicname]

 What I found out was that my grandfather wasn't Cherokee, but was Muscogee Creek (Carrie Underwood is also Muscogee but her family is from a different nation than mine). Anyway I'm inclined to believe her because in Oklahoma her story isn't at all unusual.

I really enjoyed this.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

I'm going to uppercut punch the next bad person who talks bad about Elizabeth Warren.

[MakeItRain]

 What I found out was that my grandfather wasn't Cherokee, but was Muscogee Creek (Carrie Underwood is also Muscogee but her family is from a different nation than mine). Anyway I'm inclined to believe her because in Oklahoma her story isn't at all unusual.

I really enjoyed this.

 

I shouldn't have said different nations, but jurisdiction would have been misleading. Reservation would have been less confusing but native tribes in Oklahoma don't have reservations.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I'm going to uppercut punch the next bad person who talks bad about Elizabeth Warren.

Who talked bad about her?

[MakeItRain]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/29/minnesota_taser_video_christopher_lollie_of_st_paul_tased_in_front_of_children.html

[ednksu]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/29/minnesota_taser_video_christopher_lollie_of_st_paul_tased_in_front_of_children.html

Reminds me of the dude who was arrested in the Israel/Pal protest at a mall because the private security personnel escalated the situation.  Clearly we need some sort of mechanism to deal with that aspect, you shouldn't have to ID yourself to a rough ridin' rent a cop.  And it would be nice to have some sort of citizens arrest for abusive cops. 

[michigancat]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/29/minnesota_taser_video_christopher_lollie_of_st_paul_tased_in_front_of_children.html

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I would have shown them my ID.

[michigancat]

Did anyone see this? I had some facebook friends pretty pumped up about it.

http://youngcons.com/explosive-new-lawsuit-filed-in-st-louis-claims-michael-brown-was-a-suspect-for-second-degree/

[michigancat]

I would have shown them my ID.

You wouldn't have been asked to show ID or even talked to at all.

[sonofdaxjones]

cRusty's school of dealing with law enforcement in 'Merica:  Free White Paper on overhaulin law enforcement

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I would have shown them my ID.

You wouldn't have been asked to show ID or even talked to at all.

It would obviously depend on the skin color of the cop, no doubt about it.

[Dugout DickStone]

I would have shown them my ID.

Why?

[MakeItRain]

I would have shown them my ID.

Why?

Because he wouldn't be frustrated by constantly being hassled by the police. How one deals with police officers likely has something to do with past experiences. If you don't have a frame of reference for dealing with hostile cops you're likely to view the request as basic and will comply. John Doug needs to understand that not everyone has the relationship with the police that he does.

[Skipper44]

I would have shown them my ID.

Why?

Because he wouldn't be frustrated by constantly being hassled by the police. How one deals with police officers likely has something to do with past experiences. If you don't have a frame of reference for dealing with hostile cops you're likely to view the request as basic and will comply. John Doug needs to understand that not everyone has the relationship with the police that he does.

yeah, I have seen incredible rants on a boat bbs when a middle age white guy has his 6 figure boat boarded for a "safety check" in South Florida.  Reports of guns drawn in the presence of children, Law Enforcement marking up the nonskid with their jack boots, etc.  I had never thought of it as small glimpse into the DWB experience before now.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I would have shown them my ID.

Why?

So I don't get tazed?

This guy probably has some sort of settlement coming. Second cop overreacted, but we can't see everything that happened.

[ednksu]

I would have shown them my ID.

Why?

So I don't get tazed?

This guy probably has some sort of settlement coming. Second cop overreacted, but we can't see everything that happened.

no
rent a cop was a dumb bitch with no right to ask for ID
cop cop was a bag and could have de-escalated the situation and tried to be a hardass with the "I'm not your brother" crap. 

[michigancat]

I would have shown them my ID.

Why?

So I don't get tazed?

This guy probably has some sort of settlement coming. Second cop overreacted, but we can't see everything that happened.

no
rent a cop was a dumb bitch with no right to ask for ID
cop cop was a bag and could have de-escalated the situation and tried to be a hardass with the "I'm not your brother" crap. 

The woman in the video was a regular cop, not a rent-a-cop.

Also, didn't realize this was from January, he just got his phone back from police now.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/clip/10527380/father-will-file-complaint-with-sppd