Author Topic: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It  (Read 19846 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38083
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2014, 02:59:23 PM »
What if we sent all of our death row inmates to an island and then sold hunting permits to gun owners with a fantasy of killing bad guys? That would be a real money-maker for us, I bet.

The Most Dangerous Game: Con Island.

Would be all for this if all tickets were one way tickets.

If they shoot more than they have tags for, they have to stay. Most of these people are law abiders, though. I don't think you would encounter too many poachers.

Nope.  One way only, but you don't tell them that.  They figure it out after hunt camp is over and no plane.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7833
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2014, 03:21:22 PM »
I think we should model our prison system after Norway's.

http://community.ashworthcollege.edu/thread/57405

They can afford do this kind of thing because they export .5 barrels of oil per capita per day.

Our per capita incarceration rate is more than 10x higher than theirs. Their system producing a recidivism rate below 20% probably plays some role in that.

They also have a 21 year maximum sentence, even for murder. Might be worth it in some cases.

Offline ydarg2012

  • Baller on a Budget
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1116
  • Snyder 4 President
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2014, 03:21:23 PM »
For Spracs argument, a brief on how Constitution lovers view Capital Punishment.

"Capital Punishment is an extreme exertion of state power and is of little use in a free society, while it is of great use to a tyrannical government. Proponents of capital punishment believe that such punishment may be justified as a deterrent to particularly atrocious crimes and as a means of keeping dangerous individuals permanently incapacitated. Furthermore, if people commit crimes, they may sacrifice their rights; if the legal system is legitimate, perhaps capital punishment is justified.

 They also believe that penal justice in general should not exist. On this view, all penalties, including capital punishment, should be abolished. Others that support it, do so on self-defense or retributive justice grounds. Constitution lovers believe in the right and occasional necessity to resort to violence for police purposes.

There is also the fundamental problem of the possibility of error, or even outright framing of the accused. To this effect, lack of trust in government to make decisions (including life-and-death decisions) competently or for the best motives may confound the issue.

In any case, to anarcho-capitalists, making judges, police officers, and other law enforcement personnel just as responsible for their acts as any citizen, with no privilege or special right or exemption, will prevent abuse of force in general, and of deadly force in particular. Walter Block went so far as to say, "We have seen that in the constitution lover's  philosophy, the death penalty is justified for those whose crimes rise to a sufficient degree of severity. Surely, there are heads of state whose evil deeds many times eclipse such a level. Thus, it would altogether be justified to end their lives by violence."

Offline puniraptor

  • Tastemaker
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21355
  • nostalgic reason
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2014, 03:22:24 PM »
I think we should model our prison system after Norway's.

http://community.ashworthcollege.edu/thread/57405

They can afford do this kind of thing because they export .5 barrels of oil per capita per day.

Our per capita incarceration rate is more than 10x higher than theirs. Their system producing a recidivism rate below 20% probably plays some role in that.

They also have a 21 year maximum sentence, even for murder. Might be worth it in some cases.

loophole that people deemed dangerous are held in mental institutions indefinitely

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2014, 03:29:01 PM »
Maybe we should just have a capital punishment list. You sign up for the list, and if you commit a murder, you are eligible for the death penalty. Don't sign up, and you are ineligible, regardless of your crime.

Offline puniraptor

  • Tastemaker
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21355
  • nostalgic reason
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2014, 03:31:34 PM »
Maybe we should just have a capital punishment list. You sign up for the list, and if you commit a murder, you are eligible for the death penalty. Don't sign up, and you are ineligible, regardless of your crime.

but what if you sign up and are falsely convicted of murder?

Online CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38083
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2014, 03:33:44 PM »
Maybe we should just have a capital punishment list. You sign up for the list, and if you commit a murder, you are eligible for the death penalty. Don't sign up, and you are ineligible, regardless of your crime.

Little sticker that they put on the back of your dl.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2014, 03:36:44 PM »
Maybe we should just have a capital punishment list. You sign up for the list, and if you commit a murder, you are eligible for the death penalty. Don't sign up, and you are ineligible, regardless of your crime.

but what if you sign up and are falsely convicted of murder?

Sorry.

Maybe we should just have a capital punishment list. You sign up for the list, and if you commit a murder, you are eligible for the death penalty. Don't sign up, and you are ineligible, regardless of your crime.

Little sticker that they put on the back of your dl.

Something like the organ donor list is exactly what I had in mind.

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 22871
  • Gentleman | Polymath | Renowned Lover
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2014, 03:42:29 PM »
For Spracs argument, a brief on how Constitution lovers view Capital Punishment.

"Capital Punishment is an extreme exertion of state power and is of little use in a free society, while it is of great use to a tyrannical government. Proponents of capital punishment believe that such punishment may be justified as a deterrent to particularly atrocious crimes and as a means of keeping dangerous individuals permanently incapacitated. Furthermore, if people commit crimes, they may sacrifice their rights; if the legal system is legitimate, perhaps capital punishment is justified.

 They also believe that penal justice in general should not exist. On this view, all penalties, including capital punishment, should be abolished. Others that support it, do so on self-defense or retributive justice grounds. Constitution lovers believe in the right and occasional necessity to resort to violence for police purposes.

There is also the fundamental problem of the possibility of error, or even outright framing of the accused. To this effect, lack of trust in government to make decisions (including life-and-death decisions) competently or for the best motives may confound the issue.

In any case, to anarcho-capitalists, making judges, police officers, and other law enforcement personnel just as responsible for their acts as any citizen, with no privilege or special right or exemption, will prevent abuse of force in general, and of deadly force in particular. Walter Block went so far as to say, "We have seen that in the constitution lover's  philosophy, the death penalty is justified for those whose crimes rise to a sufficient degree of severity. Surely, there are heads of state whose evil deeds many times eclipse such a level. Thus, it would altogether be justified to end their lives by violence."

That's not what I meant, at all.  Also, what the hell is this?
My winning smile and can-do attitude.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2014, 03:57:28 PM »
Looks like ydarg2012 just went all junkydarg2014 on Spracne.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7833
  • 1cat
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2014, 03:58:14 PM »
For Spracs argument, a brief on how Constitution lovers view Capital Punishment.

"Capital Punishment is an extreme exertion of state power and is of little use in a free society, while it is of great use to a tyrannical government. Proponents of capital punishment believe that such punishment may be justified as a deterrent to particularly atrocious crimes and as a means of keeping dangerous individuals permanently incapacitated. Furthermore, if people commit crimes, they may sacrifice their rights; if the legal system is legitimate, perhaps capital punishment is justified.

 They also believe that penal justice in general should not exist. On this view, all penalties, including capital punishment, should be abolished. Others that support it, do so on self-defense or retributive justice grounds. Constitution lovers believe in the right and occasional necessity to resort to violence for police purposes.

There is also the fundamental problem of the possibility of error, or even outright framing of the accused. To this effect, lack of trust in government to make decisions (including life-and-death decisions) competently or for the best motives may confound the issue.

In any case, to anarcho-capitalists, making judges, police officers, and other law enforcement personnel just as responsible for their acts as any citizen, with no privilege or special right or exemption, will prevent abuse of force in general, and of deadly force in particular. Walter Block went so far as to say, "We have seen that in the constitution lover's  philosophy, the death penalty is justified for those whose crimes rise to a sufficient degree of severity. Surely, there are heads of state whose evil deeds many times eclipse such a level. Thus, it would altogether be justified to end their lives by violence."

constitution lovers are anarcho-capitalists?!?!?  :runaway:

Offline ydarg2012

  • Baller on a Budget
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1116
  • Snyder 4 President
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2014, 04:30:58 PM »
Pulled it off of some Libertarian article on Wikipedia . since they all love the constitution and what not.

Offline Spracne

  • Point Plank'r
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *
  • Posts: 22871
  • Gentleman | Polymath | Renowned Lover
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #87 on: April 30, 2014, 04:32:18 PM »
For gosh sakes, why would you quote that huge block of text and then give no indication of the source?
My winning smile and can-do attitude.

Offline ydarg2012

  • Baller on a Budget
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1116
  • Snyder 4 President
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #88 on: April 30, 2014, 04:34:42 PM »
For gosh sakes, why would you quote that huge block of text and then give no indication of the source?

I've only been bbs'n for three and a half months but I should have done better. Rookie move. Here is my source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_perspectives_on_capital_punishment

Offline EMAWmeister

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 8957
  • Livin' it up
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2014, 05:42:15 PM »
eff em, ban em, etc.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #90 on: April 30, 2014, 09:11:00 PM »
Ya know, I don't think the government should murder people.

Weird, because you do think it should lie, steal and cover up its own criminal negligence.
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #91 on: April 30, 2014, 09:19:50 PM »
I'm against the Death Penalty on moral grounds in that I think they are state-sanctioned revenge killings, and they typically don't help the victim's family psychologically as seemingly intended. Studies have shown it is not a deterrent. It's very obvious that it is applied to minorities at a much higher rate than to white people. 1/25 of those killed were actually innocent of the crime they were convicted of. And now we can't even do this procedure properly.

How many reasons do we need to end this practice? Oh yeah it appeals broadly to tough on crime politicians and the stand your ground-types. This is the mentality that turned America into the biggest prison state in the world by a large margin. If our Supreme Court weren't packed with Bush appointees, we might have a chance to ban the Death Penalty. I doubt it happens for a couple more decades, though.

Is this a serious post? Everyone ignored it. Too insane and unfounded?
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline DQ12

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 22786
  • #TeamChestHair
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2014, 11:57:14 PM »
What are your thoughts on the post, FSD?

I can't speak to the accuracy of his data, but I tend to agree that I don't think the government should be able to kill prisoners.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Emo EMAW

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 17891
  • Unrepentant traditional emobro
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #93 on: May 01, 2014, 08:55:21 AM »
What are your thoughts on the post, FSD?

I can't speak to the accuracy of his data, but I tend to agree that I don't think the government should be able to kill prisoners.

Do you think the government should be allowed to kill American citizens overseas with drones? 

Online CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38083
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #94 on: May 01, 2014, 09:08:16 AM »
What are your thoughts on the post, FSD?

I can't speak to the accuracy of his data, but I tend to agree that I don't think the government should be able to kill prisoners.

Do you think the government should be allowed to kill American citizens overseas with drones?

Oh man.  Great play on the whole "winging it" thing.

Offline ydarg2012

  • Baller on a Budget
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1116
  • Snyder 4 President
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #95 on: May 01, 2014, 09:09:03 AM »
What are your thoughts on the post, FSD?

I can't speak to the accuracy of his data, but I tend to agree that I don't think the government should be able to kill prisoners.

Do you think the government should be allowed to kill American citizens overseas with drones?

Is this a thing  :dunno:

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #96 on: May 01, 2014, 09:10:09 AM »
What are your thoughts on the post, FSD?

I can't speak to the accuracy of his data, but I tend to agree that I don't think the government should be able to kill prisoners.

Do you think the government should be allowed to kill American citizens overseas with drones?

If it's necessary to stop them from committing crimes against America, then sure. The country has a right to defend itself.

Offline Emo EMAW

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 17891
  • Unrepentant traditional emobro
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #97 on: May 01, 2014, 09:30:53 AM »
So,

1.  it's okay to kill people BEFORE they commit crimes, but
2.  not AFTER they actually commit them

Got it.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38010
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #98 on: May 01, 2014, 09:32:59 AM »
So,

1.  it's okay to kill people BEFORE they commit crimes, but
2.  not AFTER they actually commit them

Got it.

It's okay to kill people while they are committing a crime. Not before or after.

Online CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38083
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Executions - Now We're Just Winging It
« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2014, 10:26:02 AM »
So,

1.  it's okay to kill people BEFORE they commit crimes, but
2.  not AFTER they actually commit them

Got it.

It's okay to kill people while they are committing a crime. Not before or after.

your ethical line in the sand is interesting.  Are you describing a self defense sitch only?