Last 7 games - Jake Waters

[ksufan44]

One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.

[scottwildcat]

One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.

 

[catzacker]

I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time.  It makes no sense.  But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.

I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB.  We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be).  So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb).  And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams. 

So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability.  (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).

People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time?  I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.

No.  Will win.

The offense with Klein was way different than the offense with Roberson, though, right?

Both predicated on a dual threat qb.  The coaches seem better at adjusting a running qb offense than to a more passing qb offense.

[chum1]

I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time.  It makes no sense.  But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.

I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB.  We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be).  So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb).  And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams. 

So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability.  (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).

People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time?  I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.

No.  Will win.

The offense with Klein was way different than the offense with Roberson, though, right?

Both predicated on a dual threat qb.  The coaches seem better at adjusting a running qb offense than to a more passing qb offense.

That's too hocus pocusy for me to be on board with.

[Cire]

Seems that waters had a fairly typical juco learning curve.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

Feels good to have been on the Jake Waters train from the get go, now all of you are eating crow.

[hemmy]

He had 1 good game. Good grief. 1 game prior he was complete crap.

[ksufan44]

vs Baylor and Okie State, we had our top WR out, and we heavily shift our possessions at QB toward Sams. While, when we have our healthy WR, especially later in the season, we shift our possessions at QB more to Waters. If this doesn't say something, at least in regard to what our coaches think about the QB position, not sure what else would.

Also, for me to say that Waters probably throws a better ball than Sams and to think that our wideouts would better prefer Waters throwing them the ball, isn't beyond delusional.

[bones129]

vs Baylor and Okie State, we had our top WR out, and we heavily shift our possessions at QB toward Sams. While, when we have our healthy WR, especially later in the season, we shift our possessions at QB more to Waters. If this doesn't say something, at least in regard to what our coaches think about the QB position, not sure what else would.

Also, for me to say that Waters probably throws a better ball than Sams and to think that our wideouts would better prefer Waters throwing them the ball, isn't beyond delusional.

Agreed.

[michigancat]

Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?

[Jackstack99EMAW]

Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year.  Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.

[bones129]

Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year.  Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.

Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year.  Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.

Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.

  probably because Bill runs 5 plays with Sams. 

[bones129]

Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year.  Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.

Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.

  probably because Bill runs 5 plays with Sams.

Which last night were incredibly unproductive.

[Jackstack99EMAW]

Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year.  Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.

Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.

  probably because Bill runs 5 plays with Sams.

Which last night were incredibly unproductive.

  Due to 3 holding and false starts by Lucas and a drop.  0% on Sams.  Happens when Jake's in too.  I'd also rather my QB miss deep balls instead of 8 yard curl routes.

[EMAWmeister]

Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?

Not necessarily. Waters has struggled in the intermediate range passing game, but is successful with a home run threat (typically tlbl). Guys like Currie Sexton and TLBK are generally pretty solid across the middle in the 5-10 yard range

[michigancat]

Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?

Not necessarily. Waters has struggled in the intermediate range passing game, but is successful with a home run threat (typically tlbl). Guys like Currie Sexton and TLBK are generally pretty solid across the middle in the 5-10 yard range

We have one person on the team that can catch a pass over 10 yards? And Waters is ineffective when this player is not on the field? But is clearly our best option when the deep threat is on the field? And this all makes sense to people?

[star seed 7]

One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.

This is dumber than anything tim has ever posted.

I wish you weren't a cat fan, rough ridin' moron.

[sunny_cat]

One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.

This is dumber than anything tim has ever posted.

I wish you weren't a cat fan, rough ridin' moron.

It's true tho. ON OPPOSITE DAY.

[EMAWmeister]

Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?

Not necessarily. Waters has struggled in the intermediate range passing game, but is successful with a home run threat (typically tlbl). Guys like Currie Sexton and TLBK are generally pretty solid across the middle in the 5-10 yard range

We have one person on the team that can catch a pass over 10 yards? And Waters is ineffective when this player is not on the field? But is clearly our best option when the deep threat is on the field? And this all makes sense to people?

I guess I just don't get what's confusing about the adjustments we hade to make without our top 2 receivers. Sams is the only reason those two games were even close, which is why it is so goddamn frustrating that the coaches made him completely one dimensional and thus ineffective. We knew Waters was "the guy" from day 1, and I am okay with that. I am not okay with how we used Sams this year.

[michigancat]

I pretty much agree. I just don't understand how there can be enough of a gap between Sams and Waters that Waters gets 80% of snaps while Sams plays an uncreative version of the Wildcat  when the loss of receiver or two completely flips the effectiveness.

[EMAWmeister]

I pretty much agree. I just don't understand how there can be enough of a gap between Sams and Waters that Waters gets 80% of snaps while Sams plays an uncreative version of the Wildcat  when the loss of receiver or two completely flips the effectiveness.

Yep. 100% agree.

[Belvis Noland]

It's like, I love the idea of Sams.  I would love for a true dual-threat to recreate Bishop/Roberson/Klein.  But, the fact is that Sams isn't our QB, for reasons none of us will ever know.  Hopefully Sharp can be that guy in 2015. 

So, the only question IMO is whether Waters at QB and Sams at WR/RB/#2QB, can be a formula to delivering 9+ Ws in 2014.  I say yes.  Snake improved over the season and demolished Michigan with his arm and legs.  I'm optimistic.   

[slobber]

I think that 3rd and long scramble for a first when the pocket really collapsed around him is the first time Waters ever really avoided a sack and scrambled for a 1st down. He still goes down at the first contact. His flop is really weird. It's like he allows his legs to stay behind and falls forward in a very strange way.

[ksufan44]

I do totally place some blame on coaching staff for the utilization of Sams, especially for the plays with him in near end of season. But, after Bill's 1 month of extra practice or whatever, Waters looked significantly better than he has all year. No fumbles, no INTs, but Sams still turns it over once.

Who should be the QB for next year going forward, who knows, but after watching this bowl game I will go out and say I think Waters is the better option.