Unsettled Waters

[CNS]

The hard work v talent mantra bullshit is going to be what ultimately sinks us once bill is gone.  Dumbasses will keep that bullshit up and we will be hanging out with lil bro at the bottom of the conference and the national talking point will be "what's wrong with the state of Kansas and why can't they compete in football".

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think its just the aura surrounding k-state. the whole hard work beats talent, in fact they have that crap plastered everywhere..
but the truth is sams is the more talented quarterback and consistently gives us a better chance to win.

I think he's probably the harder worker of the two as well.

[Belvis Noland]

-poor pre-snap reads on defense

Can somebody extrapolate this.  I don't rewatch games and, when I do, it's never to break down tape, so to speak. 

But, the "poor pre-snap reads" angle just screams "dumb black kid" stereotype to me.  Against ISU, I recall seeing Dan change the play at the line, resulting in a positive gain.  I also recall seeing Waters change the play at the line on one play and proceed to get sacked for a 5-yard loss.     The reality is that Sams has a higher completion% than Waters and the INTs that he's thrown had nothing to do with "pre-snap" reads on defense.     

[CNS]

Guys, it's dumb when ppl tell you he makes bad reads, bad decisions, bad throws, and can't take care of the ball then turns around and says he can do amazing things with the ball.

This is basically GPC double speak.

why is that dumb?

To further summarize, the entire front of the argument is saying he can't do well then you end it by saying he can. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

-poor pre-snap reads on defense

Can somebody extrapolate this.  I don't rewatch games and, when I do, it's never to break down tape, so to speak. 

But, the "poor pre-snap reads" angle just screams "dumb black kid" stereotype to me.  Against ISU, I recall seeing Dan change the play at the line, resulting in a positive gain.  I also recall seeing Waters change the play at the line on one play and proceed to get sacked for a 5-yard loss.     The reality is that Sams has a higher completion% than Waters and the INTs that he's thrown had nothing to do with "pre-snap" reads on defense.   

The reality is that neither of the QB's are even making pre-snap reads. The coaches are making the reads. That is why they both look to the sideline with about 10 seconds remaining on the play clock, then scramble to change the play and get the snap off in time.

[Lefty]

Guys, it's dumb when ppl tell you he makes bad reads, bad decisions, bad throws, and can't take care of the ball then turns around and says he can do amazing things with the ball.

This is basically GPC double speak.

My point is on the film that Snyder reviews, Sams makes many more mistakes than Waters does. Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does. Sams does have the ability to overcome his mistakes by making plays, but often the play ends up with bad results. When he starts to show he can make correct reads, make better throws to the best optioned receiver, not eff up the blocking scheme by jumping in front of a blocker and not throw terrible passes to open receivers; Snyder will gain more trust in certain situations.

Snyder doesn't trust Sams because Sams continually makes glaring mistakes.

[ChiComCat]

I don't know why it matters who has been in the program longer.  I think the more important point is who has more time left in the program

[CNS]

Guys, it's dumb when ppl tell you he makes bad reads, bad decisions, bad throws, and can't take care of the ball then turns around and says he can do amazing things with the ball.

This is basically GPC double speak.

My point is on the film that Snyder reviews, Sams makes many more mistakes than Waters does. Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does. Sams does have the ability to overcome his mistakes by making plays, but often the play ends up with bad results. When he starts to show he can make correct reads, make better throws to the best optioned receiver, not eff up the blocking scheme by jumping in front of a blocker and not throw terrible passes to open receivers; Snyder will gain more trust in certain situations.

Snyder doesn't trust Sams because Sams continually makes glaring mistakes.

I have a feeling that you ignore 3 and outs when watching.

[Belvis Noland]

My point is on the film that Snyder reviews, Sams makes many more mistakes than Waters does. Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

Stopped reading. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Guys, it's dumb when ppl tell you he makes bad reads, bad decisions, bad throws, and can't take care of the ball then turns around and says he can do amazing things with the ball.

This is basically GPC double speak.

My point is on the film that Snyder reviews, Sams makes many more mistakes than Waters does. Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does. Sams does have the ability to overcome his mistakes by making plays, but often the play ends up with bad results. When he starts to show he can make correct reads, make better throws to the best optioned receiver, not eff up the blocking scheme by jumping in front of a blocker and not throw terrible passes to open receivers; Snyder will gain more trust in certain situations.

Snyder doesn't trust Sams because Sams continually makes glaring mistakes.

The stats do not support this statement at all.

[MakeItRain]

It was a nice fake to sale the throw tho. Stop over analyzing, Mir. We all love SAMs, but jake play faked the crap out of that play.

I completely missed this post, the broken english aside, does anyone know what the hell fanning is talking about here? I legitimately have no idea what he is talking about.

[steve dave]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

[bubbles4ksu]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

nice try, daris' racist sock, but you're not getting by sd today or ever again.

[steve dave]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

nice try, daris' racist sock, but you're not getting by sd today or ever again.

 

[Lefty]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

Yeah, Bill is just going to let Jake manage the game instead because Jake never turns the ball over.

[MakeItRain]

The 6-15 thing is the dumbest crap I ever heard. And cancelled out by some amazing long passes that few can make.

Hey _FAN remember when I talked about people and the dumbing down of expectations, here's a glaring example. In this dudes mind missing your target 9 out of 15 times is mitigated because the one time Waters threw the ball down the field he was 4 yards long on a fade and that equates to "some amazing long passes that few can make."

It has now become too much to ask that Waters hits an open receiver on a fade route. What's sad about this is that overthrowing that pass isn't a huge deal but FSD and stunted trying too hard forces me to shine a light on the one deep pass attempted.

[yoga-like_abana]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

so snyder doesn't know how to coach talent or let loose of his reigns, probs.
I honestly don't think Sams will ever change. he's a talented enough player to where he is going to make some mistakes trying to do it all and relying on instinct. sometimes it will payoff and other times it won't. very frustrating for a coach and nerdy fans but a waaay more fun option to watch than the trickle down waters offense.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The 6-15 thing is the dumbest crap I ever heard. And cancelled out by some amazing long passes that few can make.

Hey _FAN remember when I talked about people and the dumbing down of expectations, here's a glaring example. In this dudes mind missing your target 9 out of 15 times is mitigated because the one time Waters threw the ball down the field he was 4 yards long on a fade and that equates to "some amazing long passes that few can make."

It has now become too much to ask that Waters hits an open receiver on a fade route. What's sad about this is that overthrowing that pass isn't a huge deal but FSD and stunted trying too hard forces me to shine a light on the one deep pass attempted.

He threw a nice pass down the field to Lockett on the sideline, iirc. He put it up high where only lockett could grab it. It wasn't as nice as Sams' throw to Thompson in the endzone, but it was still a pretty nice ball.

[CNS]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

Yeah, Bill is just going to let Jake manage the game instead because Jake never turns the ball over.

When I think of Jake, I think Game Manager. 

[Lefty]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

Yeah, Bill is just going to let Jake manage the game instead because Jake never turns the ball over.

When I think of Jake, I think Game Manager.

Jake is a really good mobile QB who is being asked to run a very complicated Snyder option based offense. Not the best fit for him. He's done a very good job of picking it up and adapting his game to it.

[CNS]

I was being sarcastic.

I actually like Waters for what he tries to be and some of what he can do.

If he wasn't so turn over prone, or if we didn't have elite receivers, he would actually make a pretty good game manager.

[steve dave]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

oh, I'm sorry. just make up inaccurate stuff and post it all over the place in that case.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Waters continually puts the offense in better resulting plays than Sams does.

statistically inaccurate

I think lost in all of this is that I want it to be Sams' team too. I'm team #life I really am. but he makes too many mistakes and Snyder does not allow for that to happen.

Yeah, Bill is just going to let Jake manage the game instead because Jake never turns the ball over.

When I think of Jake, I think Game Manager.

Jake is a really good mobile QB who is being asked to run a very complicated Snyder option based offense. Not the best fit for him. He's done a very good job of picking it up and adapting his game to it.

Sams is a really good mobile QB who is being asked to run a very complicated Snyder option based offense. It is the perfect fit for him. He's done a very good job of picking it up and almost beat 2 of the best college football teams in America with a team that lost at home to an FCS team in the only two opportunities he's been given.

[pissclams]

I don't know why it matters who has been in the program longer.  I think the more important point is who has more time left in the program

agreed, jesse ertz is our main man