Spirited debate inspired by Dax.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

[ksupamplemousse]

I guess I don't see why everyone is pissed about this pickup. I watched some jr and sr film, and he looks like a good player. He's not very fast for sure, but he seems to be a long strider that knows how use his length to get position on the way to the hoop. Shot from outside looks smooth, and it also looks repeatable, doesn't seem to be any glaring mechanics flaws. He looks like a kid with pretty high bball IQ that has a good sense for where the ball is going in the offense, and where it will come off the rim on missed shots. My only real concern is on defense, his speed and quickness look to be below average for a high major kid. I think we'll probably pack a few pounds on him and play him at the wing. Overall, I'm totally fine with oscar taking a flyer on this kid, I think he could be an actual DITR, not one those "her her, oscar picked up another DITR" kind of guys.

[Mr Bread]

I'm interested to see what 'clams' dossier on this young gun says.  I love 'clams' hoops dossiers.  For my money there just aren't better dossiers out there. 

[Panjandrum]

GPC has 2 pages about how this is an ok pickup because he's just gonna play behind Edwards, Foster, and our other young studs anyway.  I mean, I guess I see that point about depth, and at least he appears to be a competent  shooter.  But we went from targeting Javon Bess (who was already not a first option) to signing a kid who is seen as MAC level or below in a week.  Just not a lot of positive spin left for oscar's recruiting.

I don't think he was the replacement for Bess.  I think he was the next guy on the list after Mason.

I think the Melvin kid is the next on the list after Bess.

It seems like we were targeting a big, a stretch four, and a shooter in this class.  He seems to be the shooter, and Hurt is the big.  I'm guessing Melvin is the four.

On a side note, I'm assuming that we'll still pursue a couple of kids to potentially replace Jack Krap and potentially Nigel Johnson at the end of the year should we oscar them.

[MakeItRain]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

So.

No Dalonte Hill/Bob Huggins, no Bill Walker, Mike Beasley or Rodney McGruder.

[Skipper44]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

So.

No Dalonte Hill/Bob Huggins, no Bill Walker, Mike Beasley or Rodney McGruder.

I would say needs a Dalonte but Weber had one in Jerrance Howard and still failed. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

So.

No Dalonte Hill/Bob Huggins, no Bill Walker, Mike Beasley or Rodney McGruder.

No Rodney McGruder?

Sorry, misread your post as saying that Weber won without Bill, Mike, or Rodney. Weber is good enough to win with a ton of talent. So is every other coach. He's not good enough to attract that top level talent, though, and that is the problem.

[ksu101]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

So.

No Dalonte Hill/Bob Huggins, no Bill Walker, Mike Beasley or Rodney McGruder.

No Rodney McGruder?

Sorry, misread your post as saying that Weber won without Bill, Mike, or Rodney. Weber is good enough to win with a ton of talent. So is every other coach. He's not good enough to attract that top level talent, though, and that is the problem.

Scott Drew says hi

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

So.

No Dalonte Hill/Bob Huggins, no Bill Walker, Mike Beasley or Rodney McGruder.

No Rodney McGruder?

Sorry, misread your post as saying that Weber won without Bill, Mike, or Rodney. Weber is good enough to win with a ton of talent. So is every other coach. He's not good enough to attract that top level talent, though, and that is the problem.

Scott Drew says hi

Scott Drew is a proven, consistent winner.

[MakeItRain]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

Very possible, he isn't IMO. Where would you put him? I used this list and I came up with 44 coaches that I would rather have, and believe me I felt I was being fair, if I had to think twice I didn't count them. Brad Underwood is one of my 44.

Cameron Dollar is now a D1 head coach!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches

Scott Drew says hi

You're aware he has 2 elite 8s in 11 years right?

[CNS]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

All 3 of those championships were won by kids he didn't recruit.

So.

No Dalonte Hill/Bob Huggins, no Bill Walker, Mike Beasley or Rodney McGruder.

No Rodney McGruder?

Sorry, misread your post as saying that Weber won without Bill, Mike, or Rodney. Weber is good enough to win with a ton of talent. So is every other coach. He's not good enough to attract that top level talent, though, and that is the problem.

Scott Drew says hi

Scott Drew is a proven, consistent winner.

He certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I would take Drew at KSU.

[Spracne]

Well well well, looks like we got ourselves here a good ole' fashion how-shitty-a-coach-is-Scott-Drew-off...

[sonofdaxjones]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

Very possible, he isn't IMO. Where would you put him? I used this list and I came up with 44 coaches that I would rather have, and believe me I felt I was being fair, if I had to think twice I didn't count them. Brad Underwood is one of my 44.

Cameron Dollar is now a D1 head coach!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches

Scott Drew says hi

You're aware he has 2 elite 8s in 11 years right?

That's fantastic MIR, you've got your own list.   

[CNS]

Not really commenting on his ability as a coach. 

However, he gets huge talent and play a style that can be pretty entertaining.

Also, the BBs'n around his recruiting would be dreamy.

[MakeItRain]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

Very possible, he isn't IMO. Where would you put him? I used this list and I came up with 44 coaches that I would rather have, and believe me I felt I was being fair, if I had to think twice I didn't count them. Brad Underwood is one of my 44.

Cameron Dollar is now a D1 head coach!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches

Scott Drew says hi

You're aware he has 2 elite 8s in 11 years right?

That's fantastic MIR, you've got your own list.   

Dax, can't you just discuss the topic without the bullshit? Are you 7 years old? I said Weber isn't a top 40 coach, you challenged me, I responded, you responded with a non-answer. I don't know man, when adults are having a conversation it usually goes something like this
Adult 1 "I think snickers are the best candy"
Adult 2 "Nah not really"
Adult 1 "I really can't think of a candy I like better"
Adult 2 "Well I like, 3 Musketeers, Twix, and Reece's Peanut Butter Cups more"

If you don't have a contribution to the objection that YOU raised, then just shut the eff up.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

Very possible, he isn't IMO. Where would you put him? I used this list and I came up with 44 coaches that I would rather have, and believe me I felt I was being fair, if I had to think twice I didn't count them. Brad Underwood is one of my 44.

Cameron Dollar is now a D1 head coach!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches

Scott Drew says hi

You're aware he has 2 elite 8s in 11 years right?

That's fantastic MIR, you've got your own list.   

Dax, can't you just discuss the topic without the bullshit? Are you 7 years old? I said Weber isn't a top 40 coach, you challenged me, I responded, you responded with a non-answer. I don't know man, when adults are having a conversation it usually goes something like this
Adult 1 "I think snickers are the best candy"
Adult 2 "Nah not really"
Adult 1 "I really can't think of a candy I like better"
Adult 2 "Well I like, 3 Musketeers, Twix, and Reece's Peanut Butter Cups more"

If you don't have a contribution to the objection that YOU raised, then just shut the eff up.

Anyone can look at a list and spew forth that they see 40 some odd guys on there they think are better than the current coach. 

Who are these 40 some guys better than Weber?

I am not the least bit surprised that you think Underwood would be better, because the too cool for schoolers on this board will carry the water for anyone associated with Frank Martin's slightly above mediocre stint as K-State's head coach until the river runs dry . . . and hey, I like Brad, I remember watching chubby Brad Underwood shoot from way out when K-State was getting blown out at the end of the Jack Hartman era.  Plus, who can forget Brad bailing out the clueless Frank Martin down the stretch during Frank's tenure at K-State.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Who are these 40 some guys better than Weber?

Here's 50.

http://network.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/article_external/college_basketball_ranking_the_top_50_coaches_for_2013_14/14558428

[sonofdaxjones]

Who are these 40 some guys better than Weber?

Here's 50.

http://network.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/article_external/college_basketball_ranking_the_top_50_coaches_for_2013_14/14558428

Kevin Stallings?  Highly Debateable

Leonard Hamilton?  Please

Tad Boyle?  Based on what exactly?  One decent NCAA tourney run?

Fran McCaffery?  Are you serious here?

Plus at least 5 more. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Who are these 40 some guys better than Weber?

Here's 50.

http://network.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/article_external/college_basketball_ranking_the_top_50_coaches_for_2013_14/14558428

Kevin Stallings?  Highly Debateable

Leonard Hamilton?  Please

Tad Boyle?  Based on what exactly?  One decent NCAA tourney run?

Fran McCaffery?  Are you serious here?

Plus at least 5 more.

Well, that still leaves 41 coaches better than Weber.

[sonofdaxjones]

Jaime Dixon:  Faltering

Mike Montgomery:  Keep on hangin on I guess

Tony Bennett:  A sub .500 record in the very mediocre ACC gets you on the list?

Immediately disqualified because they're at small schools that play in non power conferences:

Bob McKillop
Rick Byrd
Randy Bennet

Other very debateables:

Lorenzo Romar
Steve Lavin

[MakeItRain]

I have a hard time believing any of his recruits are good because I can't for the life of me understand why someone would go play basketball for oscar Weber when there are any other decent options.

This is where the "too cool for schoolers" lose all matter of objectivity.   4 Conference titles in 3 different conferences, 2 National Coach of the Year trophies and 3 conference coach of the year trophies, and a Final Four trophy.   

Do you honestly think that stuff matters to recruits? The recruits that do look at those things also know that many of those accolades were accumulated when they were in elementary school and that he isn't considered a top 40 coach today.

How do you win a major conference basketball co-championship in the last year, the third major conference basketball championship in the last decade and then supposedly not breath on a Top 40 coaching position?   Impossible.

Very possible, he isn't IMO. Where would you put him? I used this list and I came up with 44 coaches that I would rather have, and believe me I felt I was being fair, if I had to think twice I didn't count them. Brad Underwood is one of my 44.

Cameron Dollar is now a D1 head coach!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches

Scott Drew says hi

You're aware he has 2 elite 8s in 11 years right?

That's fantastic MIR, you've got your own list.   

Dax, can't you just discuss the topic without the bullshit? Are you 7 years old? I said Weber isn't a top 40 coach, you challenged me, I responded, you responded with a non-answer. I don't know man, when adults are having a conversation it usually goes something like this
Adult 1 "I think snickers are the best candy"
Adult 2 "Nah not really"
Adult 1 "I really can't think of a candy I like better"
Adult 2 "Well I like, 3 Musketeers, Twix, and Reece's Peanut Butter Cups more"

If you don't have a contribution to the objection that YOU raised, then just shut the eff up.

Anyone can look at a list and spew forth that they see 40 some odd guys on there they think are better than the current coach. 

Who are these 40 some guys better than Weber?

I am not the least bit surprised that you think Underwood would be better, because the too cool for schoolers on this board will carry the water for anyone associated with Frank Martin's slightly above mediocre stint as K-State's head coach until the river runs dry . . . and hey, I like Brad, I remember watching chubby Brad Underwood shoot from way out when K-State was getting blown out at the end of the Jack Hartman era.  Plus, who can forget Brad bailing out the clueless Frank Martin down the stretch during Frank's tenure at K-State.

There's a reason why I didn't make a list, I don't have enough time and don't care enough to prove something to ypu to take that much time. Why don't you do what I did and take 5 minutes to go down that list and see how many D1 coaches you think are better than Weber. You obviously won't have him in the 40 range because Dax couldn't possibly be wrong. But since you're so adamant that anyone not placing him in the top 25 is a too cool for schooler, I'm moderately interested in your semi-honest placing of Weber.

[ksupamplemousse]

Being that oscar Weber is our coach, this thread already kinda sucked. This pissing match is making it infinitely worse though.