Spirited debate inspired by Dax.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Rank the last serval recruiting classes 2008 - 2013 ? 

[catzacker]

does anyone have a list of kids in the top 150 that oscar has signed? 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Looks like or worse than Frank's recruiting?  Interesting.

So, who in the last 4 years under Frank had an offer list comparable to Hurt?  Maybe Gipson I guess.

247 sports lists Hurt's offer list as:  K-State, Miami, Ole' Miss, Indiana, Arizona.

Upshaw had offers from Georgetown and Louisville.

[sonofdaxjones]

Looks like or worse than Frank's recruiting?  Interesting.

So, who in the last 4 years under Frank had an offer list comparable to Hurt?  Maybe Gipson I guess.

247 sports lists Hurt's offer list as:  K-State, Miami, Ole' Miss, Indiana, Arizona.

Upshaw had offers from Georgetown and Louisville.

Man, dodged a bullet there.

[sonofdaxjones]

does anyone have a list of kids in the top 150 that oscar has signed?

So your expectation was that Weber was going to step in and start signing Top 150 kids?

[Mixed-Nutz]

1) 2009 Henriquez, Irving, Judge, McGruder, Russell, Peterson 
2) 2011 Diaz, Gipson, Jones, Lawrence, Rodriquez, Watson
3) 2013 Fincher, Foster, Westicles, Johnson, Karapetyan, Thomas 
4) 2010 Asprilla, Myles, Southwell, Spradling, Williams
5) 2012 Johnson, Orris
6) 2008 Awaji, Herrera

Seems oscar and Frank are on the same level, 

[sonofdaxjones]

Once get past the McGruder/Judge -(Total Bust) class, Frank signed 1 Top 150 guy as I recall.

Gipson who was 147 (Rivals)

[Rage Against the McKee]

Looks like or worse than Frank's recruiting?  Interesting.

So, who in the last 4 years under Frank had an offer list comparable to Hurt?  Maybe Gipson I guess.

247 sports lists Hurt's offer list as:  K-State, Miami, Ole' Miss, Indiana, Arizona.

Upshaw had offers from Georgetown and Louisville.

Man, dodged a bullet there.

Angel Rodriguez had offers from Miami, Louisville, and NC State.

Once get past the McGruder/Judge -(Total Bust) class, Frank signed 1 Top 150 guy as I recall.

Gipson who was 147 (Rivals)

Diaz was 148. Southwell was 131.

[sonofdaxjones]

So, going down the stretch, Frank signed 3 Fringe 150 guys (and when you have Adrian Diaz on the list, we are talking fringe) and another guy with a decent offer list.  Wow, you could really see the recruiting momentum build after that Elite 8 run couldn't you.

[Rage Against the McKee]

What do you mean, "fringe"? You are either on the list or you aren't. Diaz was a solid prospect, and this team would be much better with him than they are going to be without him this year.

[sunny_cat]

1) 2009 Henriquez, Irving, Judge, McGruder, Russell, Peterson 
2) 2011 Diaz, Gipson, Jones, Lawrence, Rodriquez, Watson
3) 2013 Fincher, Foster, Westicles, Johnson, Karapetyan, Thomas 
4) 2010 Asprilla, Myles, Southwell, Spradling, Williams
5) 2012 Johnson, Orris
6) 2008 Awaji, Herrera

Seems oscar and Frank are on the same level, 

Whatever happened to Neville Fincher? Community college? Sorry if luke'd.

[scottwildcat]

1) 2009 Henriquez, Irving, Judge, McGruder, Russell, Peterson 
2) 2011 Diaz, Gipson, Jones, Lawrence, Rodriquez, Watson
3) 2013 Fincher, Foster, Westicles, Johnson, Karapetyan, Thomas 
4) 2010 Asprilla, Myles, Southwell, Spradling, Williams
5) 2012 Johnson, Orris
6) 2008 Awaji, Herrera

Seems oscar and Frank are on the same level, 

Whatever happened to Neville Fincher? Community college? Sorry if luke'd.

didn't qualify.

[sonofdaxjones]

What do you mean, "fringe"? You are either on the list or you aren't. Diaz was a solid prospect, and this team would be much better with him than they are going to be without him this year.

Once you start getting up there those rankings become so absurdly subjective it's barely even worth getting into.

[sunny_cat]

1) 2009 Henriquez, Irving, Judge, McGruder, Russell, Peterson 
2) 2011 Diaz, Gipson, Jones, Lawrence, Rodriquez, Watson
3) 2013 Fincher, Foster, Westicles, Johnson, Karapetyan, Thomas 
4) 2010 Asprilla, Myles, Southwell, Spradling, Williams
5) 2012 Johnson, Orris
6) 2008 Awaji, Herrera

Seems oscar and Frank are on the same level, 

Whatever happened to Neville Fincher? Community college? Sorry if luke'd.

didn't qualify.

Yeah, I know. I mean, what is he doing now? I would assume someone who didn't qualify would try to go to a Juco.

[scottwildcat]

1) 2009 Henriquez, Irving, Judge, McGruder, Russell, Peterson 
2) 2011 Diaz, Gipson, Jones, Lawrence, Rodriquez, Watson
3) 2013 Fincher, Foster, Westicles, Johnson, Karapetyan, Thomas 
4) 2010 Asprilla, Myles, Southwell, Spradling, Williams
5) 2012 Johnson, Orris
6) 2008 Awaji, Herrera

Seems oscar and Frank are on the same level, 

Whatever happened to Neville Fincher? Community college? Sorry if luke'd.

didn't qualify.

Yeah, I know. I mean, what is he doing now? I would assume someone who didn't qualify would try to go to a Juco.

ohhh, i don't know actually.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Fincher is at Navarro, I have no idea if Brooks placed him their or not.

[Stevesie60]

Zacker:  Frank is completely relevant to the conversation when the haters bring up the "other peoples players".   Frank wouldn't have taken that team to the NCAA tourney nor sniffed at a conference title.  Those guys were sick of Frank and his bullshit.

So weird that the guys who were sick of Frank and his bullshit have since gone to South Carolina to hang out with him. (drugs?)

[sunny_cat]

Fincher is at Navarro, I have no idea if Brooks placed him their or not.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Zacker:  Frank is completely relevant to the conversation when the haters bring up the "other peoples players".   Frank wouldn't have taken that team to the NCAA tourney nor sniffed at a conference title.  Those guys were sick of Frank and his bullshit.

So weird that the guys who were sick of Frank and his bullshit have since gone to South Carolina to hang out with him. (drugs?)

Hanging out and playing for are different??? 

[Dr Rick Daris]

Daris:  Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play.   You have to look long and rough ridin' hard to find much negative in there, the negativity is purely subjective at that juncture.

gosh darnit dax, no one (especially me) is arguing with your nameless oscar weber resume talking points so you can stop posting them. the argument (at least from me) is that they are simply that and nothing more.

Then there's massive swaths of the so called "Top 40" coaches who have nothing more than nameless talking points on their resume.

everything you listed above and then some could be applied to mike davis. their nameless bulletpoint resumes are virtually identical. that is why your "Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play" talking points are discounted and juvenile. i mean, just in case you were wondering.

also, if one factors in that oscar was fired from his previous job for losing too often then you really don't have to look that far to see a great big neon flashing negative.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Daris:  Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play.   You have to look long and rough ridin' hard to find much negative in there, the negativity is purely subjective at that juncture.

gosh darnit dax, no one (especially me) is arguing with your nameless oscar weber resume talking points so you can stop posting them. the argument (at least from me) is that they are simply that and nothing more.

Then there's massive swaths of the so called "Top 40" coaches who have nothing more than nameless talking points on their resume.

everything you listed above and then some could be applied to mike davis. their nameless bulletpoint resumes are virtually identical. that is why your "Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play" talking points are discounted and juvenile. i mean, just in case you were wondering.

also, if one factors in that oscar was fired from his previous job for losing too often then you really don't have to look that far to see a great big neon flashing negative.

If you wanting oscar to be successful at K-State you are hoping oscar was a bad fit at Illinois. He wasn't a dominate coach and didn't fall on his face during his Illinois tenure.  One thing that helps is I like his staff at K-State better then the one a Illinois. At the end of the day he is going to have to bring in good players that fit his system here. Something I don't think he did well at Illinois. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Daris:  Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play.   You have to look long and rough ridin' hard to find much negative in there, the negativity is purely subjective at that juncture.

gosh darnit dax, no one (especially me) is arguing with your nameless oscar weber resume talking points so you can stop posting them. the argument (at least from me) is that they are simply that and nothing more.

Then there's massive swaths of the so called "Top 40" coaches who have nothing more than nameless talking points on their resume.

everything you listed above and then some could be applied to mike davis. their nameless bulletpoint resumes are virtually identical. that is why your "Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play" talking points are discounted and juvenile. i mean, just in case you were wondering.

also, if one factors in that oscar was fired from his previous job for losing too often then you really don't have to look that far to see a great big neon flashing negative.

There's nothing more juvenile than to be so blinded by hate that one can't even bring themselves to even think about oscar Weber being a Top 40 or 50 coach, particularly in light of the fact that there's many on these lists who are at lessor schools in non power conferences and/or at schools with relatively low basketball expectations.   The "resume talking points" line in the context of a Top 40 or 50 coaches list is idiotic because once you get past about 10 or 12 guys, the rest of the list is comprised of guys who have nothing more than a bullet point list of "accomplishments' to point to that for the most part look like they were stamped on a production line or written by an SID for a coaches bio.  Thus making Weber every bit as applicable to a Top 40 coaches list as about 20 other guys.

Can't even consider the Mike Davis (dumb) talking point because when you coach in a conference where the regular season champion only makes the "First Four" it's not the same level of competition.   

[Mixed-Nutz]

Daris:  Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play.   You have to look long and rough ridin' hard to find much negative in there, the negativity is purely subjective at that juncture.

gosh darnit dax, no one (especially me) is arguing with your nameless oscar weber resume talking points so you can stop posting them. the argument (at least from me) is that they are simply that and nothing more.

Then there's massive swaths of the so called "Top 40" coaches who have nothing more than nameless talking points on their resume.

everything you listed above and then some could be applied to mike davis. their nameless bulletpoint resumes are virtually identical. that is why your "Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play" talking points are discounted and juvenile. i mean, just in case you were wondering.

also, if one factors in that oscar was fired from his previous job for losing too often then you really don't have to look that far to see a great big neon flashing negative.

There's nothing more juvenile than to be so blinded by hate that one can't even bring themselves to even think about oscar Weber being a Top 40 or 50 coach, particularly in light of the fact that there's many on these lists who are at lessor schools in non power conferences and/or at schools with relatively low basketball expectations.   The "resume talking points" line in the context of a Top 40 or 50 coaches list is idiotic because once you get past about 10 or 12 guys, the rest of the list is comprised of guys who have nothing more than a bullet point list of "accomplishments' to point to that for the most part look like they were stamped on a production line or written by an SID for a coaches bio.  Thus making Weber every bit as applicable to a Top 40 coaches list as about 20 other guys.

Can't even consider the Mike Davis (dumb) talking point because when you coach in a conference where the regular season champion only makes the "First Four" it's not the same level of competition.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Daris:  Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play.   You have to look long and rough ridin' hard to find much negative in there, the negativity is purely subjective at that juncture.

gosh darnit dax, no one (especially me) is arguing with your nameless oscar weber resume talking points so you can stop posting them. the argument (at least from me) is that they are simply that and nothing more.

Then there's massive swaths of the so called "Top 40" coaches who have nothing more than nameless talking points on their resume.

everything you listed above and then some could be applied to mike davis. their nameless bulletpoint resumes are virtually identical. that is why your "Nearly a .700 winning percentage in 15 years as a head coach, over .500 in the NCAA tourney, only one losing season overall, and only 2 losing seasons in conference play" talking points are discounted and juvenile. i mean, just in case you were wondering.

also, if one factors in that oscar was fired from his previous job for losing too often then you really don't have to look that far to see a great big neon flashing negative.

There's nothing more juvenile than to be so blinded by hate that one can't even bring themselves to even think about oscar Weber being a Top 40 or 50 coach, particularly in light of the fact that there's many on these lists who are at lessor schools in non power conferences and/or at schools with relatively low basketball expectations.   The "resume talking points" line in the context of a Top 40 or 50 coaches list is idiotic because once you get past about 10 or 12 guys, the rest of the list is comprised of guys who have nothing more than a bullet point list of "accomplishments' to point to that for the most part look like they were stamped on a production line or written by an SID for a coaches bio.  Thus making Weber every bit as applicable to a Top 40 coaches list as about 20 other guys.

Can't even consider the Mike Davis (dumb) talking point because when you coach in a conference where the regular season champion only makes the "First Four" it's not the same level of competition.

my point is that oscar would not be on my top 40 because he isn't one of the top 40 coaches that i would want coaching kstate and because i take things other than just overall lifetime winning percentage, etc. into consideration.

throw him up on your top 40 all you want to though dax. you seem to have different criteria. criteria that somehow discounts mike davis despite a nearly identical career in every way that you've used to justify oscar so far, but different none the less.

[sonofdaxjones]

Mike Davis went from a Big 10 school to a C-USA school, so if you want to consider K-State and the Big 12 equal to a meddling C-USA school go ahead Rick, but no thanks for me.

In terms of wanting someone at K-State, welp, I am not totally sold on Weber either, but you can't fap it all day long and twice on Sunday to that 40 coaches you'd like to have at K-State list because there's only a small amount of those who are going to move the needle and they aren't coming to K-State . . .  insofar as the rest goes they're every bit the risk if not moreso than Weber is/was, some of those guys on those lists are barely clinging to the jobs they have.