Okay, I've seen enough of this Waters loser.

[Stevesie60]

I'm not going to comment on what you dorks are saying, but I think it's funny that the talking point has become "a LHC Bill Snyder coach team doesn't get penalties or turn it over" when during Bill's first stint we had penalties all the time and our best team ever turned it over all the time.

[DQ12]

I'm not going to comment on what you dorks are saying, but I think it's funny that the talking point has become "a LHC Bill Snyder coach team doesn't get penalties or turn it over" when during Bill's first stint we had penalties all the time and our best team ever turned it over all the time.

Well, I'm sure our relative pace has a lot to do with it.  With our slow ass pace (although we run 3 more plays per game compared to last year) turnovers play a much bigger role for us than they do with other offenses.  Eliminating a possession and giving up field position are magnified when there are fewer possessions in the game.

So not turning the ball over is more important for us than it is with other teams. And this year (especially compared to last year) we've been really great at not turning it over.

Notably, TCU is leading the nation (by far) in takeaways per game .  They average 3.3 per game; 2nd (LA Tech) is at 2.9 ().  Granted, their pace is crazy -- opponents average 80.1 plays per game (only 16 average more), but still, that TO number is staggering. 

In a lot of important ways, our offense this year mirrors that of '12 -- pretty good YPP and very few TOs.

In fact, in 2014, we average 6 ypp.  In 2012 we averaged 6 ypp.

In 2014 we average 0.4 TOs per game.  In 2012 we averaged 0.8 TOs per game.  5 (almost half) of our turnovers in '12 came against Oregon and Baylor.  Without those disasters, our turnovers are basically even at this point. 

Basically, our offense (to this point, of course) has been as efficient as our 2012 offense, which is saying a lot. 

[kso_FAN]

This TO discussion is why I prefer some measure of TO percentage. I usually reverse it though and break it down by how many plays are run compared to TOs lost (or gained by the defense).

Right now K-State loses 1 TO every 78.9 plays, good for #11 nationally. They gain a TO on defense every 40.2 plays, good for #50 nationally.

[Skipper44]

I'm not going to comment on what you dorks are saying, but I think it's funny that the talking point has become "a LHC LHC Bill Snyder coach team doesn't get penalties or turn it over" when during Bill's first stint we had penalties all the time and our best team ever turned it over all the time.

Well, I'm sure our relative pace has a lot to do with it.  With our slow ass pace (although we run 3 more plays per game compared to last year) turnovers play a much bigger role for us than they do with other offenses.  Eliminating a possession and giving up field position are magnified when there are fewer possessions in the game.

So not turning the ball over is more important for us than it is with other teams. And this year (especially compared to last year) we've been really great at not turning it over.

Notably, TCU is leading the nation (by far) in takeaways per game .  They average 3.3 per game; 2nd (LA Tech) is at 2.9 ().  Granted, their pace is crazy -- opponents average 80.1 plays per game (only 16 average more), but still, that TO number is staggering. 

In a lot of important ways, our offense this year mirrors that of '12 -- pretty good YPP and very few TOs.

In fact, in 2014, we average 6 ypp.  In 2012 we averaged 6 ypp.

In 2014 we average 0.4 TOs per game.  In 2012 we averaged 0.8 TOs per game.  5 (almost half) of our turnovers in '12 came against Oregon and Baylor.  Without those disasters, our turnovers are basically even at this point. 

Basically, our offense (to this point, of course) has been as efficient as our 2012 offense, which is saying a lot.

Dlew, I believe Stevesie was refering to the DoD 1.0 teams of the 90s and early 2000s that were usually near the top of the league in penalties and turnovers. 

Those teams had tons of talent, especially on defense where played almost the inverse ratio of m2m:zone as the DoD 2.0 teams play now. We dared the officials to call PI against our physical corners & safeties.  It's a shame we barely had an internet then, cyclonefanatics.com would of been amazing.

I don't feel the offense is any slower and it actually feels faster with how we spend fewer time in the huddle with the sideline checks we do now so I am not sure why we have seen the reduction in turnovers.  Without looking it up, my gut tells me we had a similar turnover rate up until Dimel left for Wyoming in 1996 as we do today and the turnovers spiked when Ron Hudson was OC with more aggressive playmakers in Bishop and Ell that took more chances down field, ran more option and tried to get more yardage after contact than the average Snyder QB.

[Fldermaus]

I recall the old DOD teams getting a delay of game (or burning a timeout to avoid one) on about every fifth play.  That doesn't happen so much any more.

[Panjandrum]

This TO discussion is why I prefer some measure of TO percentage. I usually reverse it though and break it down by how many plays are run compared to TOs lost (or gained by the defense).

Right now K-State loses 1 TO every 78.9 plays, good for #11 nationally. They gain a TO on defense every 40.2 plays, good for #50 nationally.

I wish we were a little more opportunistic, but as long as we stay positive on TO margin, I'm okay.

[kso_FAN]

This TO discussion is why I prefer some measure of TO percentage. I usually reverse it though and break it down by how many plays are run compared to TOs lost (or gained by the defense).

Right now K-State loses 1 TO every 78.9 plays, good for #11 nationally. They gain a TO on defense every 40.2 plays, good for #50 nationally.

I wish we were a little more opportunistic, but as long as we stay positive on TO margin, I'm okay.

If you take Off Plays/TO and subtract Def plays/TO (which IMO is a better measure of TO margin) the Cats are +38.7, which is #13 nationally and very good. In regular TO margin we are +.75 per game, which is #25 nationally and still decent. To me this relates to TO% in basketball and when you factor in pace we are much better than we appear just based on raw TOs.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I'm not going to comment on what you dorks are saying, but I think it's funny that the talking point has become "a LHC LHC Bill Snyder coach team doesn't get penalties or turn it over" when during Bill's first stint we had penalties all the time and our best team ever turned it over all the time.

Bill is more adaptive and cutting age than people will ever give him credit for. Also i think our defensive strategies have definitely evolved to changes college football offensives. Our 90s defensives wouldn't work now.   

[Panjandrum]

This TO discussion is why I prefer some measure of TO percentage. I usually reverse it though and break it down by how many plays are run compared to TOs lost (or gained by the defense).

Right now K-State loses 1 TO every 78.9 plays, good for #11 nationally. They gain a TO on defense every 40.2 plays, good for #50 nationally.

I wish we were a little more opportunistic, but as long as we stay positive on TO margin, I'm okay.

If you take Off Plays/TO and subtract Def plays/TO (which IMO is a better measure of TO margin) the Cats are +38.7, which is #13 nationally and very good. In regular TO margin we are +.75 per game, which is #25 nationally and still decent. To me this relates to TO% in basketball and when you factor in pace we are much better than we appear just based on raw TOs.

Alright, will take then.

[CHONGS]

This TO discussion is why I prefer some measure of TO percentage. I usually reverse it though and break it down by how many plays are run compared to TOs lost (or gained by the defense).

Right now K-State loses 1 TO every 78.9 plays, good for #11 nationally. They gain a TO on defense every 40.2 plays, good for #50 nationally.

In terms of possessions, K-State turns it over (on average) about once every 13 drives (12th nationally), and forces a turn over about once every 7 drives (55th nationally).

For a sense of scale, KSU averages about 11 offensive possessions a game (12th fewest nationally).  TCU averages about 15 possessions a game (most in the nation).

[michigancat]

This TO discussion is why I prefer some measure of TO percentage. I usually reverse it though and break it down by how many plays are run compared to TOs lost (or gained by the defense).

Right now K-State loses 1 TO every 78.9 plays, good for #11 nationally. They gain a TO on defense every 40.2 plays, good for #50 nationally.

In terms of possessions, K-State turns it over (on average) about once every 13 drives (12th nationally), and forces a turn over about once every 7 drives (55th nationally).

For a sense of scale, KSU averages about 11 offensive possessions a game (12th fewest nationally).  TCU averages about 15 possessions a game (most in the nation).

Pace would definitely affect our penalty numbers, also.

[pvegs]

I'm not going to comment on what you dorks are saying, but I think it's funny that the talking point has become "a LHC Bill Snyder coach team doesn't get penalties or turn it over" when during Bill's first stint we had penalties all the time and our best team ever turned it over all the time.

Steviesie, remember how fun the old days were against the truly pud teams where'd we commit like a holding penalty to negate a long TD and then just drive effortlessly for a score anyway.

[WillieWatanabe]

Obviously k-state runs the conference now...so of course we are less penalized.

[bucket]

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler noted that Kansas State junior QB Jake Waters had "gained the attention and respect" of NFL scouts.

Brugler wrote that Waters had "show[ed] improved passing skills and toughness this season." The stats seem to bear this out, as Waters has raised his completion percentage from 61.2% in 2013 to 65.2% in 2014. Waters has also seen his yards-per-completion drop from 9.5 to 8.4 over the last year, though, indicating the possibility that he's completing more passes because the game-plan has been simplified for the quarterback. As a draft prospect, he's on the fringe. A big game against TCU on Saturday would do well to give scouts a little more to work with.

Source: CBS Sports Nov 6 - 8:58 PM

I would attribute the drop in yards-per-completion to the change from TT's playing style to Curry Sexton's.

[kim carnes]

bump.  put in the backup.

[Dugout DickStone]

Bounce pass

[star seed 7]

Is the bounce pass legal yet?

[kim carnes]

everyone would hate his guts if our defense didn't constantly bail him out.  imagine what carson could have done with this defense.

[kim carnes]

kevin white is going to shut lockett down meaning waters will be completely useless tonight.

[kim carnes]

2 three and outs

[kim carnes]

we're going to lose by a lot

[steve dave]

Yeah, we need something else right now

[CNS]

Jakes shoulder has to be pretty hurt.  Super shitty throws to wide open sexton then burns.  Were so mumped. 

[Duncan]

  Were so mumped.

[Dugout DickStone]

I am not sure I can remember a game with a bigger talent disparity at QB