Author Topic: New To Investing Thread  (Read 327218 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #375 on: April 19, 2013, 01:19:11 PM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'.  I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.

DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.

The problem with your barber comparison is that it's unlikely the advisor could show you a 1% improvement over an index or target retirement fund and will probably be more difficult and take up more of your time. other than that it's spot on. oh, and you didn't see my fangs, buddy. No siree. I only go "Central Texas" on folks when I'm angry.

Offline Daddy Claxton

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #376 on: April 19, 2013, 01:30:42 PM »
Never used a guy, so i have no idea what it would entail, but if it was more than 'here you go, send me a bill and wake me up when you have replaced my current income with what i just gave you" then I'd be less interested.

Wasn't referring to your fangs, but some others that were called out a few pages ago. Fangs are what you do; you're good at it.

Offline kostakio

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Re: Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #377 on: April 19, 2013, 01:43:27 PM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'.  I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.

DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.

1% a year compunded over a number of years can add up to a lot of money.  It's unlikely the professional will be able to get you back that extra 1%.  Odds are if anything he's going to lose you money on top of that by putting you in actively managed funds that underperform the index and have higher fees.   See the previous post referencing the bet that Warren Buffett made against the hedge fund index.  These large hedge funds full of Ivy league MBA's are getting trounced by an index fund that anyone can buy for next to nothing. 


Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #378 on: April 19, 2013, 01:58:37 PM »
Thanks for the tips, guys.  If 1% is the going rate for "a guy" (not edward jones of course) and the commissions are eliminated, I'm not sure why anyone would mess with it themselves, unless you just enjoy it. Kinda seems like cutting your own hair though.

are you serious? 1% is huge for doing something that isn't too hard. I mean I literally do nothing.
If we're talking about a 10k account per thread parameters, the equivalent of picking up the bar tab doesn't seem 'huge' assuming 'the guy' providing something more than 'put it all in an index fund'.  I mean, if my barber pulled out a flow bee, i wouldn't go get my own flow bee; I'd get a new barber.

DISCLAIMER: before the fangs come out again, I'm here to GET info, not give advice. Don't take my statements as applicable in any way to your situation. I admit I'm clueless about this stuff.

1% a year compunded over a number of years can add up to a lot of money.  It's unlikely the professional will be able to get you back that extra 1%.  Odds are if anything he's going to lose you money on top of that by putting you in actively managed funds that underperform the index and have higher fees.   See the previous post referencing the bet that Warren Buffett made against the hedge fund index.  These large hedge funds full of Ivy league MBA's are getting trounced by an index fund that anyone can buy for next to nothing. 



Yeah, the 1% is huge if you're investing for retirement (which any small time investor should be doing).

http://www.dinkytown.net/java/RegularIRA.html

A quick calculation shows $114k @7% vs. $81k @ 6%.

Offline WonderMeal

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #379 on: April 20, 2013, 01:59:10 PM »
WonderMeal, great entrance.

 :cheers:  (Also, I have loved 'Tay since the second he stepped on campus. So  :cheers: x2.)

I think the best financial advice I could give to beginners is: don't have kids until later in life. I mean, kids are great and whatever, but they make the following things more expensive:
  • Rent/mortgage (need bigger house)
  • Insurance (family vs. individual plans)
  • Food
  • Day care (about as expensive as a rent payment, depending on where you live)
  • Random other stuff (food, doctor co-pays, clothes, etc)

If you have kids young, that severely limits the advantages of compounding interest 40 years down the road. So save that cash now.

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #380 on: April 20, 2013, 02:03:37 PM »
If you have kids young, that severely limits the advantages of compounding interest 40 years down the road. So save that cash now.

This is something you don't hear. I've never considered it honestly. Great post.

Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #381 on: April 20, 2013, 02:10:16 PM »
Or just don't have kids

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #382 on: April 20, 2013, 02:11:20 PM »
Or just don't have kids

obviously, but I've not heard that particular argument for having kids late.

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #383 on: April 20, 2013, 11:51:56 PM »
I'll probably get divorced about the same time I retire. Like, if I don't get to get away from my (ex) wife for 40 hours a week anymore I don't think I'll be able to be married.

Might have to get a special prenup for that one?
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline steve dave

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New To Investing Thread
« Reply #384 on: April 21, 2013, 08:55:06 AM »
Well, don't marry someone awful would be my advice

Offline reidrolled

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #385 on: April 21, 2013, 10:49:38 AM »
#temo  :emawkid:

still not on board with market timing.

It's not market timing!  :shakesfist:  ( :D)

it is absolutely market timing.

(I think people were dismissing this system not just because he isn't likeable, but also because he didn't seem to know what he was talking about.)

I absolutely know what I'm talking about.  I went all OCD on this a while ago.  I'm having trouble explaining it and you guys understanding it because we don't have a common frame of reference and vocabulary.  Also the stimulus antibody response thing.  It's also text on a screen with no visual aids.  I'll add some VA, or just start a new thread on TA to prevent further mucking up this one.

You also can't seem to come up with a good link explaining it. You also seem to just be making crap up and cherry picking dates to start and end with.

I'm guessing you're talking about doing something like this?

http://www.jobenjoy.com/using-simple-moving-averages-to-time-the-market/

I imagine this is what he is talking about.... more specifically the dual 50 and 200 day moving averages. This is something that I have been very seriously considering doing with the SPY (S&P index). Essentially you are using moving averages as market indicators as to when you want to go short or long, based on the shorter term average crossing above or below the longer term.

Where I find value is that this can allow you to make money on the downswings in the market as well, or at least not lose money.

tradingview.com is a very neat website that lets you customize charts and add whatever indicators you feel are relevant. i use the 20, 50, and 200 day moving average along with a few others that have been surprisingly good predictors over the past  couple of months that I have been following it.

Edit: before someone tees off on this, I am not doing this as a retirement strategy. Just something that I find interesting and want to get a feel for on more of a macro scale before I get into more specific investments.
Edit to my edit: I am not going to use this exclusively on a specific stock pick, I just think it is very important to have a technical idea of what the stock is doing before taking a position in it.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 10:58:40 AM by reidrolled »

Offline steve dave

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Offline Rams

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #387 on: April 21, 2013, 11:20:13 AM »
Warren laughs at gold "investors"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/buffett-mocking-gold-sidesteps-slump-as-he-bets-on-stocks.html

he's always hated gold.  I always use this buffett quote when clients come to me wanting to buy gold:

Quote
[Gold] gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head.

I'll never trust/understand anything with an inverted supply curve.
"Son. This is why we are wildcats. Hard work, pride, the heart of this country. And if that's not enough for you, you can just move to California with your punk friends."

Offline sys

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #388 on: April 21, 2013, 09:39:54 PM »
before someone tees off on this...

you shouldn't feel like you have to justify yourself for trying to improve the return on your investment.  the posters that teed off on emo were being dumbasses.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #389 on: April 21, 2013, 10:00:47 PM »
before someone tees off on this...

you shouldn't feel like you have to justify yourself for trying to improve the return on your investment.  the posters that teed off on emo were being dumbasses.

Bullshit. Reidrolled was being completely reasonable and went into far more detail than emo. Emo was being a dumbass and still doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Offline sys

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #390 on: April 21, 2013, 10:45:58 PM »
Bullshit. Reidrolled was being completely reasonable and went into far more detail than emo. Emo was being a dumbass and still doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

i didn't say anything about whether emo knew what he was talking about or not.  i do know that the posters that attacked him didn't know what the eff they were talking about.

to your credit, you looked for additional information on the issue, figured out you'd been a dumbass and admitted as much.  i don't think any of the other posters did that.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #391 on: April 21, 2013, 10:59:39 PM »
no one attacked him.

Offline sys

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #392 on: April 21, 2013, 11:13:30 PM »
no one attacked him.

they did though.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #393 on: April 22, 2013, 09:32:18 AM »
before someone tees off on this...

you shouldn't feel like you have to justify yourself for trying to improve the return on your investment.  the posters that teed off on emo were being dumbasses.

Bullshit. Reidrolled was being completely reasonable and went into far more detail than emo. Emo was being a dumbass and still doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Jesus man, get some perspective.  Impressing you or anyone else on here isn't a priority.  You come across as a reasonably intelligent person.  Using that perceived intelligence look at my post and do some basic research.  It's the hallmark of one of the two core philosophies of investing. It shouldn't be that hard to find information.  There are literally hundreds of books written about the subject.  But you're going to have to open your mind and put aside your bitterness over people odd/bold enough to expect to beat the market.

Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #394 on: April 22, 2013, 09:43:11 AM »
I'd already opened my mind. I asked you about the specific market timing method YOU were talking about and you just replied with vague answers and a heavy dose of dickishness.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #395 on: April 22, 2013, 09:44:33 AM »
It was counter dickishness.  But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself.  It will be more rewarding that way.  There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #396 on: April 22, 2013, 09:54:37 AM »
It was counter dickishness.  But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself.  It will be more rewarding that way.  There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.

I was trying to use the "internet thingy" to learn more about the methods a real life person supposedly used successfully.  I thought that may have been more valuable/rewarding.

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #397 on: April 22, 2013, 09:57:59 AM »
It was counter dickishness.  But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself.  It will be more rewarding that way.  There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.

you should have used that internet thingy to figure out what a Roth was before you started giving bad advice on it.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #398 on: April 22, 2013, 09:59:58 AM »
It was counter dickishness.  But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself.  It will be more rewarding that way.  There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.

you should have used that internet thingy to figure out what a Roth was before you started giving bad advice on it.

We were saying the same thing dumbass.  Go back and read. 

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #399 on: April 22, 2013, 10:00:53 AM »
It was counter dickishness.  But like I said use the internet thingy and discover for yourself.  It will be more rewarding that way.  There's also like a hundred different opinions on it so some might suit you more than others.

you should have used that internet thingy to figure out what a Roth was before you started giving bad advice on it.

We were saying the same thing dumbass.  Go back and read.

I contribute enough to my 401k to max out the employer match, and then I use the rest of my spare money purchasing stocks.

you are pissing away some good tax breaks broseph

Depends.  Probably a safe assumption tax rates when we retire will be higher.  Better to pay the income tax up front and not pay it later.  At least that's my way of looking at it.

it doesn't depend at all. he can either put it in a roth or contribute more than his employers match to his 401k until he hits his personal max. either way it's a tax break over buying stocks with after tax money and getting hit again when he sells them.

Well a Roth is an after tax contribution.  So no tax break there.  You might be thinking of a traditional IRA?

Agree on the 401k, although mine won't let me purchase anything other than the two dozen funds they offer (Prudential).

I'm not 100% certain you understand how a Roth works (I'm actually 100% certain you don't).