Author Topic: New To Investing Thread  (Read 327182 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85175
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2250 on: February 21, 2020, 07:48:40 AM »
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.

Would like to know the super secret strategies.  Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.

well you're out of luck, because that's 100% of what this is!

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53674
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2251 on: February 21, 2020, 07:51:25 AM »


Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here.  You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know which to do which is the point!!!

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85175
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2252 on: February 21, 2020, 07:55:34 AM »


Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here.  You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know which to do which is the point!!!

an advisor can't help you make that decision any more than someone here can. if you want my personal opinion it's always max out the individual tax advantaged retirement options before the 529s. you can always take out almost interest free loans for your kids education if it comes to it but you don't have any other options for your own retirement.

Online catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2253 on: February 21, 2020, 07:56:43 AM »


Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here.  You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know which to do which is the point!!!

The common wisdom is to prioritize retirement accounts over kids' college.  The main reason is that your retirement accounts do not typically count against them for purposes of financial aid, but 529s do.

Offline ben ji

  • Senior Moderator
  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 11565
  • Alot of people dont hit on an 18
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2254 on: February 21, 2020, 08:33:16 AM »
My parents are out of town so I went over to their house earlier this week to check on their house cats. They had their tax documents out so of course I snooped through them all and it looks like my dad managed to lose 1k day trading this year! (Although I'm sure he will tell me he was tax loss harvesting or something).

Good thing we got some trump money to even things out.




Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20444
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2255 on: February 21, 2020, 08:59:53 AM »
if you subscribe to the sd kk newsletter text message chain you'd know there were high level insider wallstreet types that are already making some moves to protect their assets from the inevitable bernie sanders driven market collapse.

Would like to know the super secret strategies.  Although I don't wanna mess with trying to time the market.

well you're out of luck, because that's 100% of what this is!

 :lol:

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53674
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2256 on: February 21, 2020, 09:32:17 AM »




Don’t pay some advisor. You’ll get the same quality of advice here.  You blowing out some 529s after maxing out the tax deferred retirement plans? You want to wild out and backdoor a Roth before some lib gets in and shuts down that option?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know which to do which is the point!!!

an advisor can't help you make that decision any more than someone here can. if you want my personal opinion it's always max out the individual tax advantaged retirement options before the 529s. you can always take out almost interest free loans for your kids education if it comes to it but you don't have any other options for your own retirement.

Yes and there is also the home ownership question. Like it would be nice but I don't NEED to own. Like am I better off investing the money that would be tied up saving for a ridiculous down payment? I DON'T KNOW

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85175
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2257 on: February 21, 2020, 09:40:21 AM »
like, what are you wanting some paid financial dork to tell you about that? as a free service providing dork I'll tell you that: you've moved around some already, you live in a stupid home market, you aren't afraid of relocating somewhere midwestern/cheap if the opportunity presents itself, how and where we work is evolving pretty fast so you may not have to live in that place unless you want to at some point, so you should not buy a home right now. But I'm just some guy that doesn't know what you plan on doing for the rest of your life.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20444
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2258 on: February 21, 2020, 09:43:40 AM »
like, what are you wanting some paid financial dork to tell you about that? as a free service providing dork I'll tell you that: you've moved around some already, you live in a stupid home market, you aren't afraid of relocating somewhere midwestern/cheap if the opportunity presents itself, how and where we work is evolving pretty fast so you may not have to live in that place unless you want to at some point, so you should not buy a home right now. But I'm just some guy that doesn't know what you plan on doing for the rest of your life.

You would be insane to buy in to a SF housing market that is that expensive. This isn't hard.

Invest the money in tax advantaged accounts and then invest it in non-tax advantaged if you still have extra.

Online catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2259 on: February 21, 2020, 09:49:38 AM »
I haven’t used them, but I assume financial advisors are good for looking at your entire financial picture and help you plan toward specific goals. You kinda have to figure out what those goals are either way, though. And if you find yourself with excess cash after finances, donations, savings, and retirement planning, then you probably don’t really need an advisor.

Offline meow meow

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11087
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2260 on: February 21, 2020, 09:50:40 AM »
max out tax advantaged crap, and then fun money city population you

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21894
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2261 on: February 21, 2020, 09:56:14 AM »
You would be insane to buy in to a SF housing market that is that expensive.

Couldn't you have said the same at any point in the past 100 years? And it's been a great investment in the past. Why would that change?

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21894
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2262 on: February 21, 2020, 10:01:09 AM »
Scenario A: cost of rent for the rest of your life - gains from investing downpayment amount

Scenario B: cost of downpayment + cost of mortgage for the next 30ish years

I'd guess it's probably close to a wash. But I'd love to see an attempt at a detailed calculation!

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21894
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2263 on: February 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM »
Of course, your kids can inherit if you buy, not if you rent.

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85175
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2264 on: February 21, 2020, 10:06:41 AM »
+ prop tax + maintenance + insurance

Online catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2265 on: February 21, 2020, 10:07:06 AM »
I think a house in an overpriced market generally sucks -AS- an investment, but it’s not like you’re avoiding that much in expenses by renting in an overpriced market instead of buying. Rent is basically just mortgage + passing along the taxes, insurance, and maintenance.

Still, SD’s point is a good one. There are transactional costs with buying and selling, and if you think there’s a good chance of moving in a few years it might not be a great idea. I’m sure California has pretty bad property taxes too.

Offline ben ji

  • Senior Moderator
  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 11565
  • Alot of people dont hit on an 18
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2266 on: February 21, 2020, 10:10:25 AM »
Scenario A: cost of rent for the rest of your life - gains from investing downpayment amount

Scenario B: cost of downpayment + cost of mortgage for the next 30ish years

I'd guess it's probably close to a wash. But I'd love to see an attempt at a detailed calculation!

Scenario C: Keep renting and making phat SF money then move back to KS and get a hobby farm with all the money you've made/invested and get on the government money train and possibly acquire a couple of cats from ben ji's dad.

Offline meow meow

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11087
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2267 on: February 21, 2020, 10:14:59 AM »
Scenario C makes my mouth water

Offline steve dave

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 85175
  • Romantic Fist Attachment
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2268 on: February 21, 2020, 10:15:45 AM »
irl cheap AF KS (or KS adjace) land is about the best store of wealth I can think of


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 21894
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2269 on: February 21, 2020, 11:13:01 AM »
prop tax

This alone might tip the scale toward renting in a place like SF.

Offline OB_Won

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2270 on: February 21, 2020, 11:53:22 AM »
How much is earth quake and ice cap melting flood insurance ?

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53674
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2271 on: February 21, 2020, 12:43:32 PM »
like, what are you wanting some paid financial dork to tell you about that? as a free service providing dork I'll tell you that: you've moved around some already, you live in a stupid home market, you aren't afraid of relocating somewhere midwestern/cheap if the opportunity presents itself, how and where we work is evolving pretty fast so you may not have to live in that place unless you want to at some point, so you should not buy a home right now. But I'm just some guy that doesn't know what you plan on doing for the rest of your life.

you did a great job here. Also we've been here 8 years(!)

I think a house in an overpriced market generally sucks -AS- an investment, but it’s not like you’re avoiding that much in expenses by renting in an overpriced market instead of buying. Rent is basically just mortgage + passing along the taxes, insurance, and maintenance.

Still, SD’s point is a good one. There are transactional costs with buying and selling, and if you think there’s a good chance of moving in a few years it might not be a great idea. I’m sure California has pretty bad property taxes too.

I've done a few of those rent vs. buy calculators and it's basically a tie depending on the exact value of the house

You would be insane to buy in to a SF housing market that is that expensive.

Couldn't you have said the same at any point in the past 100 years? And it's been a great investment in the past. Why would that change?

I have a hard time thinking the market will ever significantly soften in the long term. I suppose if Apple and Facebook and Google got split up and hit crazy hard times maybe? But even then I think it would come back in a serious way when you look at 2000 and 2008

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53674
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2272 on: February 21, 2020, 12:45:25 PM »
I think I've said this before, I've long had the thought of saving for a down payment out here and instead just use it to basically pay cash for a house in somewhere like KC instead. But haven't really been close to maxing out the tax advantage stuff until recently.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20444
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2273 on: February 21, 2020, 12:55:24 PM »
I think I've said this before, I've long had the thought of saving for a down payment out here and instead just use it to basically pay cash for a house in somewhere like KC instead. But haven't really been close to maxing out the tax advantage stuff until recently.

If you have rented for the past 2 years you are allowed to withdraw up to $10,000 of investment earnings from a Roth IRA with no tax or penalty for a down payment.

So you will already have part of a down payment if you really need it by maxing retirement + Roth. Having savings is fine, but holding too much cash is probably not smart unless you think the market is going to crash, in which case it is actually very smart.

Online catastrophe

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 15101
    • View Profile
Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2274 on: February 21, 2020, 01:01:36 PM »
*unless the market is going to crash imminently

Even if you time a crash right, the gains you sacrificed waiting for the crash to happen could end up wiping out the ones you cash in on if you were waiting long enough