Author Topic: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas  (Read 64461 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #150 on: June 12, 2013, 07:23:19 PM »
but seriously, did you guys read about the AIDS bill they passed? holy crap, you guys!

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #151 on: June 12, 2013, 07:23:20 PM »
Got into it pretty good with some visiting Kansas relatives about what a jackass Brownback is being on higher education (amongst other things).    I just want to make sure it's not the $150K plus tenured prof types who aren't raising a stink about the salaries.

I think I know your stance here....But it is not the tenured folks raising a stink.

A lot of the issues that many people have with Shulz/Brownback (dirth of new tenure lines, buildings over salary increases, lack of state support, nickel and dime student fees/tuition increases, non-teaching/researching staff/salary bloat) are issues that are present other places they just are worse here.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #152 on: June 12, 2013, 07:41:59 PM »
Got into it pretty good with some visiting Kansas relatives about what a jackass Brownback is being on higher education (amongst other things).    I just want to make sure it's not the $150K plus tenured prof types who aren't raising a stink about the salaries.

I think I know your stance here....But it is not the tenured folks raising a stink.

A lot of the issues that many people have with Shulz/Brownback (dirth of new tenure lines, buildings over salary increases, lack of state support, nickel and dime student fees/tuition increases, non-teaching/researching staff/salary bloat) are issues that are present other places they just are worse here.

Well, I don't have a huge problem with UPKS's desire for more and improved buildings.  It's needed, and the state sure as crap ain't gonna live up to their responsibilities on that.   Nobody wants to spend the kind of money that college demands these days and go to classes in dumps.   That said, there's got to be a way to get an increase for faculty and that way is for the state to live up to their fiduciary responsibility.   


Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2013, 07:50:31 PM »
Got into it pretty good with some visiting Kansas relatives about what a jackass Brownback is being on higher education (amongst other things).    I just want to make sure it's not the $150K plus tenured prof types who aren't raising a stink about the salaries.

I think I know your stance here....But it is not the tenured folks raising a stink.

A lot of the issues that many people have with Shulz/Brownback (dirth of new tenure lines, buildings over salary increases, lack of state support, nickel and dime student fees/tuition increases, non-teaching/researching staff/salary bloat) are issues that are present other places they just are worse here.

Well, I don't have a huge problem with UPKS's desire for more and improved buildings.  It's needed, and the state sure as crap ain't gonna live up to their responsibilities on that.   Nobody wants to spend the kind of money that college demands these days and go to classes in dumps.   That said, there's got to be a way to get an increase for faculty and that way is for the state to live up to their fiduciary responsibility.

I completely agree.  I'm not saying buildings weren't a problem.  Deferred maintenance is a huge problem.  But nationally there is a pattern that more and more post-docs, instructors, visiting profs and adjuncts are getting hired and student fees and tuition are increasingly going to rec expansions etc.  I think the rec and the parking garage are great and were needed improvements.  But with budgets the way they are, I'd prefer keeping the quality of instruction high.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2013, 08:06:27 PM »
I'm interested in this dialogue you guys are having.  I wasn't at first, but your guys' earnestness and thoughtfulness roped me in.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2013, 08:57:53 PM »
Haven't read it all yet, but national attention!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

The title sounds like it will be a fair and thoughtful article. I can't wait to read it!

I don't understand how that can be two ways.

I would have said "both ways", but good one PM.    :D

Offline 8manpick

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Re: Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2013, 09:05:20 PM »
Got into it pretty good with some visiting Kansas relatives about what a jackass Brownback is being on higher education (amongst other things).    I just want to make sure it's not the $150K plus tenured prof types who aren't raising a stink about the salaries.

I think I know your stance here....But it is not the tenured folks raising a stink.

A lot of the issues that many people have with Shulz/Brownback (dirth of new tenure lines, buildings over salary increases, lack of state support, nickel and dime student fees/tuition increases, non-teaching/researching staff/salary bloat) are issues that are present other places they just are worse here.

Well, I don't have a huge problem with UPKS's desire for more and improved buildings.  It's needed, and the state sure as crap ain't gonna live up to their responsibilities on that.   Nobody wants to spend the kind of money that college demands these days and go to classes in dumps.   That said, there's got to be a way to get an increase for faculty and that way is for the state to live up to their fiduciary responsibility.

I completely agree.  I'm not saying buildings weren't a problem.  Deferred maintenance is a huge problem.  But nationally there is a pattern that more and more post-docs, instructors, visiting profs and adjuncts are getting hired and student fees and tuition are increasingly going to rec expansions etc.  I think the rec and the parking garage are great and were needed improvements.  But with budgets the way they are, I'd prefer keeping the quality of instruction high.


fyi, the campus infrastructure, especially in terms of HVAC and other mechanical equipment is in really bad shape

:adios:

Offline bubbles4ksu

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #157 on: June 12, 2013, 09:27:06 PM »
but seriously, did you guys read about the AIDS bill they passed? holy crap, you guys!

clearly something that needed revisiting after doctors cured that baby born with AIDS?

Offline Paul Moscow

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #158 on: June 12, 2013, 09:45:47 PM »
Haven't read it all yet, but national attention!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

The title sounds like it will be a fair and thoughtful article. I can't wait to read it!

I don't understand how that can be two ways.

I would have said "both ways", but good one PM.    :D

Thanks bud. Glad we can both sit back in California and watch while the GOP torpedos our home state.

Offline Shacks

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2013, 09:50:16 PM »
Haven't read it all yet, but national attention!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

The title sounds like it will be a fair and thoughtful article. I can't wait to read it!

I don't understand how that can be two ways.

I would have said "both ways", but good one PM.    :D

Thanks bud. Glad we can both sit back in California and watch while the GOP torpedos our home state.

California's state government is rough ridin' terrible, and it's really too large and diverse of a state that should be separated into two or three smaller states

Source: I'm from California

Offline Paul Moscow

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #160 on: June 12, 2013, 09:53:16 PM »
Haven't read it all yet, but national attention!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

The title sounds like it will be a fair and thoughtful article. I can't wait to read it!

I don't understand how that can be two ways.

I would have said "both ways", but good one PM.    :D

Thanks bud. Glad we can both sit back in California and watch while the GOP torpedos our home state.

California's state government is rough ridin' terrible, and it's really too large and diverse of a state that should be separated into two or three smaller states

Source: I'm from California

I'm sure Fresno doesn't miss you.

Offline Shacks

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #161 on: June 12, 2013, 09:57:42 PM »
Haven't read it all yet, but national attention!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

The title sounds like it will be a fair and thoughtful article. I can't wait to read it!

I don't understand how that can be two ways.

I would have said "both ways", but good one PM.    :D

Thanks bud. Glad we can both sit back in California and watch while the GOP torpedos our home state.

California's state government is rough ridin' terrible, and it's really too large and diverse of a state that should be separated into two or three smaller states

Source: I'm from California

I'm sure Fresno doesn't miss you.

Orange County, bro

Offline p1k3

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #162 on: June 12, 2013, 10:01:01 PM »
Haven't read it all yet, but national attention!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

The title sounds like it will be a fair and thoughtful article. I can't wait to read it!

I don't understand how that can be two ways.

I would have said "both ways", but good one PM.    :D

Thanks bud. Glad we can both sit back in California and watch while the GOP torpedos our home state.

California's state government is rough ridin' terrible, and it's really too large and diverse of a state that should be separated into two or three smaller states

Source: I'm from California

I'm sure Fresno doesn't miss you.

Orange County, bro

I lived northwest of Fresno for a while. We don't miss each other, but yea their state gov is a complete train wreck

Offline Paul Moscow

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #163 on: June 12, 2013, 10:10:33 PM »
It'll be interesting actually. Now that CA has effectively voted out almost all the GOP - to the point where they can no longer obstruct - the dems have a super majority, just like Kansas but in the reverse and a little bit later.

Gentlemen's agreement to have this conversation again in 3 years after we've seen more of these policies take hold.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 10:19:42 PM by Paul Moscow »

Offline Shacks

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #164 on: June 12, 2013, 10:20:52 PM »
It'll be interesting actually. Now that CA has effectively voted out almost all the GOP - to the point where they can no longer obstruct - the dems have a super majority, just like Kansas but in the reverse and a little bit later.

Gentlemen's bet to have this conversation again in 3 years after we've seen more of these policies take hold.

It will be interesting in that both states will have polar opposite leaders, but the problems facing both states are much different.  For example, illegal immigration and insane pensions for public workers aren't major issues for Kansas.

Offline p1k3

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2013, 10:21:19 PM »
It'll be interesting actually. Now that CA has effectively voted out almost all the GOP - to the point where they can no longer obstruct - the dems have a super majority, just like Kansas but in the reverse and a little bit later.

Gentlemen's agreement to have this conversation again in 3 years after we've seen more of these policies take hold.

My money is on High Speed Rail sinking them

Offline michigancat

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #166 on: June 12, 2013, 10:29:20 PM »
What has California done that is the polar opposite of making it OK to quarantine AIDS patients or banning sustainable development or passing a sales tax because of a terrible income tax plan? I mean this seems roughly a billion times more reasonable and responsible than what Brownback is doing:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-state-budget-20130611,0,1794724.story

(also check the great quote from the republican!)

Offline Paul Moscow

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #167 on: June 12, 2013, 10:31:47 PM »
It'll be interesting actually. Now that CA has effectively voted out almost all the GOP - to the point where they can no longer obstruct - the dems have a super majority, just like Kansas but in the reverse and a little bit later.

Gentlemen's bet to have this conversation again in 3 years after we've seen more of these policies take hold.

It will be interesting in that both states will have polar opposite leaders, but the problems facing both states are much different.  For example, illegal immigration and insane pensions for public workers aren't major issues for Kansas.

There is no polar opposite of Brownback on the left - at least not one who has consolidated power like him

What he is doing is unprecedented and he's testing it out on Kansans, which is concerning to me. Even if the person was as far left as Brownback is right it would bother me.

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #168 on: June 12, 2013, 10:32:41 PM »
(also check the great quote from the republican!)

 :lol:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #169 on: June 12, 2013, 11:27:36 PM »
The ONLY thing keeping CA from going completely broke at this moment is the fact that Gerry Brown is old enough to understand how a budget works. Even though CA's debt is nearly a trillion dollars, the legislature sees a budget surplus and wants to start cranking the welfare machine back to full throttle, and he says no. Once he's gone and the next governor gets in, it's curtains for the golden state. But P1k3 is correct in saying that the high speed rail debacle will be the final nail. Will probably be the first state to file for bankruptcy.

Offline Shacks

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #170 on: June 12, 2013, 11:56:43 PM »
It'll be interesting actually. Now that CA has effectively voted out almost all the GOP - to the point where they can no longer obstruct - the dems have a super majority, just like Kansas but in the reverse and a little bit later.

Gentlemen's bet to have this conversation again in 3 years after we've seen more of these policies take hold.

It will be interesting in that both states will have polar opposite leaders, but the problems facing both states are much different.  For example, illegal immigration and insane pensions for public workers aren't major issues for Kansas.

There is no polar opposite of Brownback on the left - at least not one who has consolidated power like him

What he is doing is unprecedented and he's testing it out on Kansans, which is concerning to me. Even if the person was as far left as Brownback is right it would bother me.

Fair enough, but by polar opposite I meant one state is being run by extreme right wingers and the other by extreme left wingers.  I'd agree that Kansas republicans are further right than California democrats  are left though.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2013, 11:58:55 PM »
federalism in action


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Re: Another Round Of Applause For Kansas
« Reply #172 on: June 13, 2013, 12:21:06 AM »
Got into it pretty good with some visiting Kansas relatives about what a jackass Brownback is being on higher education (amongst other things).    I just want to make sure it's not the $150K plus tenured prof types who aren't raising a stink about the salaries.

I think I know your stance here....But it is not the tenured folks raising a stink.

A lot of the issues that many people have with Shulz/Brownback (dirth of new tenure lines, buildings over salary increases, lack of state support, nickel and dime student fees/tuition increases, non-teaching/researching staff/salary bloat) are issues that are present other places they just are worse here.

Well, I don't have a huge problem with UPKS's desire for more and improved buildings.  It's needed, and the state sure as crap ain't gonna live up to their responsibilities on that.   Nobody wants to spend the kind of money that college demands these days and go to classes in dumps.   That said, there's got to be a way to get an increase for faculty and that way is for the state to live up to their fiduciary responsibility.

I completely agree.  I'm not saying buildings weren't a problem.  Deferred maintenance is a huge problem.  But nationally there is a pattern that more and more post-docs, instructors, visiting profs and adjuncts are getting hired and student fees and tuition are increasingly going to rec expansions etc.  I think the rec and the parking garage are great and were needed improvements.  But with budgets the way they are, I'd prefer keeping the quality of instruction high.


fyi, the campus infrastructure, especially in terms of HVAC and other mechanical equipment is in really bad shape

That information was already mine.

Offline ben ji

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Another round of applause for Kansas? How about and OVATION
« Reply #173 on: June 14, 2013, 01:22:24 PM »
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rogue-state-how-far-right-fanatics-hijacked-kansas-20130612

Some of my favorite's

Quote
Finally, Lawrence Democrat John Wilson stands up to offer his own cheeky amendment. If gun-free zones are so dangerous, he argues sarcastically, why not get rid of the metal detectors and guards at the entrances to this very building, which wind up costing Kansas taxpayers upwards of $200,000 annually, and just allow everyone to carry concealed weapons in the state capitol instead?

Howell says that sounds like a great idea to him. The amendment passes overwhelmingly, as does the bill itself.

Quote
In the current legislative session, the House and Senate voted to rescind a 25-year-old ban on quarantining people with AIDS, and Rep. Steve Brunk of Wichita introduced a bill that would require cities that put fluoride in their water to inform customers that fluoridation lowers the I.Q. of children.

Quote
Of course, for strategists like Rove, loose-talking Republicans like Peck – who casually refers to the president as "Barack Hussein Obama" during our conversation – are precisely the reason swing voters are being spooked by the GOP. Peck remains unmoved. "What bothers me is there are places in America that have gone so far to the left that they'd look at us as nutcases," he says pleasantly. "I consider us in Kansas mainstream America – normal, red-blooded Americans who believe in the Constitution of the United States. Yes, we're conservative, but we're not a bunch of gun-toting cowboys." A few moments later, he slides his chair back, and the wheel makes a loud cracking sound when it hits the plastic floor coaster. "That wasn't gunshots, by the way!" he cackles.


Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Another round of applause for Kansas? How about and OVATION
« Reply #174 on: June 14, 2013, 01:40:49 PM »
Quote
Finally, Lawrence Democrat John Wilson stands up to offer his own cheeky amendment. If gun-free zones are so dangerous, he argues sarcastically, why not get rid of the metal detectors and guards at the entrances to this very building, which wind up costing Kansas taxpayers upwards of $200,000 annually, and just allow everyone to carry concealed weapons in the state capitol instead?

Howell says that sounds like a great idea to him. The amendment passes overwhelmingly, as does the bill itself.

This is fantastic  :lol: