#gottlieb4ksu weighs in on KU vs. ISU end of regulation

[kso_FAN]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

[cork_sniffer]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

[CNS]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call.

Again, the actual conference issued a public apology.  How often does that happen?  The conference has said that the two refs involved will have their game quantity effected due to their incompetence.  How often does that happen.  they didn't just cut their games quietly, they issued a statement to ESPN stating they were doing it.  Do you feel the conference is part of the bias group against KU and it is removing two good refs to further stack the deck against you guys next go round?

Conferences have a long standing history of never acting like they did anything wrong, yet they issued a public apology on this one. 

This one thing should be enough proof to completely end all of the KU side discussion on this.  It is insane to me that there is still push back after the freaking conference apologized nationally for the specific time period and events KU fans are arguing were no big deal. 

Again, in case it has been missed to this point.....The Big12 Conference publicly apologized and is going to cut the two refs involved.  This is significant in this discussion.

['taterblast]

ISU didn't lose the game on that no call.

 

[ben_dover919]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

[Dugout DickStone]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

that's right.

[kostakio]

gottlieb is the voice of reason.  Every fan of big 12 basketball (outside of KU fans) is sick of KU winning and it's caused some irrational behavior this season.  Anyone that 100% expects a charge call with 8 seconds to go on that play is living in a dream world, blinded by hate, and/ or hasn't been watching basketball the last 10 years. 

I don't think the charge call would be a problem by most fans if it wasn't for the much more terrible loose ball foul on the floor immediately after that.

both were bad calls for sure.  it still gave ISU an opportunity to win.  If they don't call that loose ball foul does tharpe make a wide open 3 and win it anyway?  we'll never know. 

lets not forget that ISU has blown a lot of games like this without any help from the refs this season.  If I was an ISU fan i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often.  Gottlieb's points though are spot on no matter how you look at it.

Tharpe missed the wide open three pointer as the whistle blow so actually we do know.  If you go back and watch that play you realize how totally screwed up this was. 

1. Johnson charges in and barrells over the Niange with no call
2. Johnson misses the shot
3. The rebound is falling to an ISU defender who is in position. 
4. Withey (who shouldn't be in the game) barrels into him and knocks the ball loose
5. the ball falls to Johnson
6. he passes it out to Tharpe
7. Niang is called for a foul while lying underneath Johnson pretty much doing nothing
8. Tharpe misses the three
9. Johnson makes both free throws

I wouldn't expect the call to be made on Withey in that situatoin but it was much more of a foul then anything Niang did.   If you take it out of context of the situation and just look at what happened I think 100 out of 100 offiicials would identify two fouls on KU (Johnson and Withey) and none on ISU.  The fact that Withey shouldn't even have been in the game make it even more absurd. 

[8manpick]

Anyone that 100% expects a charge call with 8 seconds to go on that play is living in a dream world, blinded by hate, and/ or hasn't been watching basketball the last 10 years.

Nope:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=273332306

Kansas State thought it had won the game when Jacob Pullen scored on a driving layup, but Catron slid under him to get the charge with 2.6 seconds left. A final chance, after the Wildcats intercepted a long inbound pass, came up short when Beasley's turnaround 3-pointer hit the side of the rim.

[cork_sniffer]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

[cork_sniffer]

Anyone that 100% expects a charge call with 8 seconds to go on that play is living in a dream world, blinded by hate, and/ or hasn't been watching basketball the last 10 years.

Nope:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=273332306

Kansas State thought it had won the game when Jacob Pullen scored on a driving layup, but Catron slid under him to get the charge with 2.6 seconds left. A final chance, after the Wildcats intercepted a long inbound pass, came up short when Beasley's turnaround 3-pointer hit the side of the rim.

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

[cork_sniffer]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

so you are completely ignoring any no calls that got ISU baskets down the stretch?  again, you can't just isolate one play. 

[kso_FAN]

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

Do you have an example of KU losing a game in a similar situation?

[pissclams]

Anyone that 100% expects a charge call with 8 seconds to go on that play is living in a dream world, blinded by hate, and/ or hasn't been watching basketball the last 10 years.

Nope:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=273332306

Kansas State thought it had won the game when Jacob Pullen scored on a driving layup, but Catron slid under him to get the charge with 2.6 seconds left. A final chance, after the Wildcats intercepted a long inbound pass, came up short when Beasley's turnaround 3-pointer hit the side of the rim.

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

every team? 

[Rage Against the McKee]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

so you are completely ignoring any no calls that got ISU baskets down the stretch?  again, you can't just isolate one play.

I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about right now.

[cork_sniffer]

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

Do you have an example of KU losing a game in a similar situation?

last saturday: johnson's shot is goal tended that would have given ku the win in regulation.  on the replay the ball was coming down.   (not to mention earlier when the same player put his hand up through the goal to push the ball out of the basket while it was clearly in the cylinder...which was not called)

but...ku won the game in overtime. 

letting one call dictate how you feel about a game is for fans of loser schools.  it's never all about one play. 

[8manpick]

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

Do you have an example of KU losing a game in a similar situation?

last saturday: johnson's shot is goal tended that would have given ku the win in regulation.  on the replay the ball was coming down. 

It most certainly was not

[ben_dover919]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things. 

And I'm saying before you call the entire college basketball world biased, might be a good idea to look at your own bias.

[CNS]

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

Do you have an example of KU losing a game in a similar situation?

last saturday: johnson's shot is goal tended that would have given ku the win in regulation.  on the replay the ball was coming down. 

but...ku won the game in overtime. 

letting one call dictate how you feel about a game is for fans of loser schools.  it's never all about one play.

How about three or four plays in under one minute(the last regulation min)?

[cork_sniffer]

it happens to every team at some point or another. 

Do you have an example of KU losing a game in a similar situation?

last saturday: johnson's shot is goal tended that would have given ku the win in regulation.  on the replay the ball was coming down. 

It most certainly was not

wrong.  it was coming down without question on the replay.  you can't argue against this, it's dropped at least a few inches. 

[CNS]

See, need to add coaches challenge like in football.

[cork_sniffer]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

so you are completely ignoring any no calls that got ISU baskets down the stretch?  again, you can't just isolate one play.

I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about right now.

if you are going to nitpick one side then nitpick the other.  blatant moving screens is a good place to start.  at the end of the day it's all foolish though. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

so you are completely ignoring any no calls that got ISU baskets down the stretch?  again, you can't just isolate one play.

I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about right now.

if you are going to nitpick one side then nitpick the other.  blatant moving screens is a good place to start.  at the end of the day it's all foolish though.

Were the refs calling a ton of moving screens on KU or something?

[hatingfrancisco]

Anyone that 100% expects a charge call with 8 seconds to go on that play is living in a dream world, blinded by hate, and/ or hasn't been watching basketball the last 10 years.

Nope:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=273332306

Kansas State thought it had won the game when Jacob Pullen scored on a driving layup, but Catron slid under him to get the charge with 2.6 seconds left. A final chance, after the Wildcats intercepted a long inbound pass, came up short when Beasley's turnaround 3-pointer hit the side of the rim.

it happens to every team at some point or another.

You just literally contradicted your stupid self.

[ben_dover919]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

so you are completely ignoring any no calls that got ISU baskets down the stretch?  again, you can't just isolate one play.

I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about right now.

if you are going to nitpick one side then nitpick the other.  blatant moving screens is a good place to start.  at the end of the day it's all foolish though. 

9.msg756109#msg756109 date=1361981546]

If I was an ISU i'd be pretty pissed too but more at my team for folding down the stretch so often. 

I've posted plenty about ISU's problems in that game, and they certainly did their fair share to lose.

But you've got to be extremely biased to not see the impact of not one, not two, but three tough calls that went KU's way all in the final minute. The Withey non foul out, the non charge/block, and then the loose ball call all compound the impact. If it was just one bad call I'd give the KU fan talking point about bad officiating throughout the game more credence, but the impact of all 3 calls in the final minute makes that impossible for me. KU fans don't have to agree, but you've got to at least acknowledge why not just fans biased against KU, but most neutral fans as well, feel the way they do about the way the final minute was officiated.

sure but how many 'neutral' fans are biased against KU?  how many of those fans watched the game?  most probably just saw the highlights or the last few minutes of regulation and overtime if anything.  You can spin it anyway you want but ISU didn't lose the game on that no call. 

So then everyone saying it was a bad call (the big 12 conference included) and cost ISU the game is biased, but you're not?

no, i'm saying that the officials didn't give the game to ku and isu had plenty of opportunities to win regardless.  putting the entire game's outcome on a no call with 8 seconds left when ISU is up 2 points and had a chance in OT is a very biased and irrational way of looking at things.

KU had plenty of opportunities to make shots and win this game without the officials having to give it to them.

so you are completely ignoring any no calls that got ISU baskets down the stretch?  again, you can't just isolate one play.

I honestly have no idea what you are even talking about right now.

if you are going to nitpick one side then nitpick the other.  blatant moving screens is a good place to start.  at the end of the day it's all foolish though. 
[/quote]

But there is no way KU got away with any blatant BLATANT moving screens in that game. since that is called so constantly and all.