Obama's Assassination Memo aka: His White Paper

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Democrats are gonna be Democrats

[felix rex]

You join an enemy army and declare war, you're a viable target. Asymmetrical warfare is still warfare and non-state actors are not non-actors.

[michigancat]

You join an enemy army and declare war, you're a viable target. Asymmetrical warfare is still warfare and non-state actors are not non-actors.

what does this clown know.

But seriously, it's silly how much we worry about people declaring war against us. Yawn.

[0.42]

You join an enemy army and declare war, you're a viable target. Asymmetrical warfare is still warfare and non-state actors are not non-actors.

Agreed. And the fact that this would be an overseas only provision where apprehension is impossible does help allay some concerns. But the definition of what a terrorist is still pretty damn vague with a lot of people, and given our government's tendency to fudge civilian drone casualty figures it's worth asking if they might not use a little too much latitude on deciding to kill an American citizen who may be planning an attack on US forces and/or civilians or may have just gotten mixed up with the wrong people. There should always be a healthy level of skepticism towards the inner workings of government bureaucracies and you'll have to forgive me if I don't trust the CIA to always get things right. It's not the end of the world if some figures get fudged with the Department of Transportation in order to meet some hypothetical goal, but it's a pretty big goddamn deal if we end up killing an American citizen when due process and/or a higher level of discretion could've been used to neutralize any potential threat.

[Kat Kid]

I don't give a crap if they are Muslims you racist piece of crap. If they committed crimes, arrest then and put them on trial.

What on Earth are you so angry about?  They were unable to arrest him, which led to the drone strike.

Oh OK.  Well nothing to see here.  As long as the administration releases information condemning people on the court of public opinion after killing them (and their families) because there was no way to bring them in on charges that should be good enough for an American citizen living abroad.

Can't wait until police SWAT units start signing up for retired DOD drones with DEA grants and start tossing surgical strikes on math labs.  Can't be risking the lives of good boys and blue on account of some druggies right?  Hope the the CI didn't eff up the address!

[Kat Kid]

You join an enemy army and declare war, you're a viable target. Asymmetrical warfare is still warfare and non-state actors are not non-actors.

Police trying to bust down the door of a druggy have more procedural and substantive  accountability and oversight than our President killing American Citizens.  Just seems a little backwards.  Call me crazy.  No one is say Obama has to fly over and let the guy pound his ass before we try to slap some cuffs on him, but we need to stop creating emergency powers in the name of terrorism and start creating rules and procedures that would pass a reasonable interpretation of the Constitution.

[felix rex]

I did enjoy the joke about how the memo defines "al Qaeda number two" broadly enough to be an ethnic group.

I will say that internally, people bristle at the notion that their targeting work is haphazard or reckless or sloppy or that they are heartless. You can learn a lot about a person by tracking them for months or even years, and even when you know the things they've done or plan to do, it is no small thing to hear their wife and kids crying and confused when they get the news. It wrecks some people.

I am sympathetic to both sides and agree with the opinion that the technology of war has outpaced the ethics of war, even while being unsure whether there are or ever were concrete ethics or just moral facades for one side to rationalize and the other to exploit.

[Kat Kid]

I did enjoy the joke about how the memo defines "al Qaeda number two" broadly enough to be an ethnic group.

I will say that internally, people bristle at the notion that their targeting work is haphazard or reckless or sloppy or that they are heartless. You can learn a lot about a person by tracking them for months or even years, and even when you know the things they've done or plan to do, it is no small thing to hear their wife and kids crying and confused when they get the news. It wrecks some people.

I am sympathetic to both sides and agree with the opinion that the technology of war has outpaced the ethics of war, even while being unsure whether there are or ever were concrete ethics or just moral facades for one side to rationalize and the other to exploit.

Sorry, but maybe it should've set off some ethical triggers in people when we were torturing people.  It should bug the hell out of people that we maintain kangaroo courts.  It should bug people that we've constructed set of emergency procedures that have been in place for the entirety of the longest war in American history and show no sign of being removed.  The technology has clearly outpaced the ethics of war, but it is clear the ethics gave way first and that the technological interventions flourished with the benefit of a less restrictive ethical code, not in spite of one.  And I see no signs that any of these apparatuses of perpetual war, executive power and violations of the 1st and the 4th through 8th amendments will be dismantled for a very long time.

[bigwillie20]

Never thought I would see the good ol U S of A reduced to a rough ridin' laughing stock in my lifetime

Nice job Obama, hope u get rough ridin' aids and die you rough ridin' worthless piece of crap

[felix rex]

I did enjoy the joke about how the memo defines "al Qaeda number two" broadly enough to be an ethnic group.

I will say that internally, people bristle at the notion that their targeting work is haphazard or reckless or sloppy or that they are heartless. You can learn a lot about a person by tracking them for months or even years, and even when you know the things they've done or plan to do, it is no small thing to hear their wife and kids crying and confused when they get the news. It wrecks some people.

I am sympathetic to both sides and agree with the opinion that the technology of war has outpaced the ethics of war, even while being unsure whether there are or ever were concrete ethics or just moral facades for one side to rationalize and the other to exploit.

Sorry, but maybe it should've set off some ethical triggers in people when we were torturing people.  It should bug the hell out of people that we maintain kangaroo courts.  It should bug people that we've constructed set of emergency procedures that have been in place for the entirety of the longest war in American history and show no sign of being removed.  The technology has clearly outpaced the ethics of war, but it is clear the ethics gave way first and that the technological interventions flourished with the benefit of a less restrictive ethical code, not in spite of one.  And I see no signs that any of these apparatuses of perpetual war, executive power and violations of the 1st and the 4th through 8th amendments will be dismantled for a very long time.

Yeah. None of this is going away, except the torture. If it means anything, I've never tortured anyone, KK. I'm a soft power guy.

[ednksu]

Never thought I would see the good ol U S of A reduced to a rough ridin' laughing stock in my lifetime

Nice job Obama, hope u get rough ridin' aids and die you rough ridin' worthless piece of crap

lolwtfbbq 

[puniraptor]

rich people dont die of aids, dumbass

[bigwillie20]

rich people dont die of aids, dumbass

t's and p's then dickgobbler

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I did enjoy the joke about how the memo defines "al Qaeda number two" broadly enough to be an ethnic group.

I will say that internally, people bristle at the notion that their targeting work is haphazard or reckless or sloppy or that they are heartless. You can learn a lot about a person by tracking them for months or even years, and even when you know the things they've done or plan to do, it is no small thing to hear their wife and kids crying and confused when they get the news. It wrecks some people.

I am sympathetic to both sides and agree with the opinion that the technology of war has outpaced the ethics of war, even while being unsure whether there are or ever were concrete ethics or just moral facades for one side to rationalize and the other to exploit.

Sorry, but maybe it should've set off some ethical triggers in people when we were torturing people.  It should bug the hell out of people that we maintain kangaroo courts.  It should bug people that we've constructed set of emergency procedures that have been in place for the entirety of the longest war in American history and show no sign of being removed.  The technology has clearly outpaced the ethics of war, but it is clear the ethics gave way first and that the technological interventions flourished with the benefit of a less restrictive ethical code, not in spite of one.  And I see no signs that any of these apparatuses of perpetual war, executive power and violations of the 1st and the 4th through 8th amendments will be dismantled for a very long time.

Yeah. None of this is going away, except the torture. If it means anything, I've never tortured anyone, KK. I'm a soft power guy.

What about rendition; is that going away?

[OregonSmock]

So we've basically eliminated a lot of the ridiculous bureaucracy that we used to have to go through to kill members of al Qaeda.  We can either bring the fight to the terrorists, or we can wait for another 9/11 to occur.

If by ridiculous bureaucracy you mean the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 14th amendments you would be correct.

eff off peacenik

well I'm not sure how I feel about whacking citizens.  I don't think you should be able to eject from the legal process by hiding in Yemen while continuing your operations without repercussions.  Maybe the US should have tried a bit harder to get him back.

eff.  That.  The United States already wastes enough money as it is on our defense spending.  No reason to waste even more resources trying to arrest some anti-American terrorist scumbag who has been actively working for al Qaeda.  If you go to Yemen, denounce the United States, and plot terrorist attacks with al Qaeda, you deserve to get bombed to pieces.

['taterblast]

#teamBeems, although it does set a dangerous precedent

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

So we've basically eliminated a lot of the ridiculous bureaucracy that we used to have to go through to kill members of al Qaeda.  We can either bring the fight to the terrorists, or we can wait for another 9/11 to occur.

If by ridiculous bureaucracy you mean the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 14th amendments you would be correct.

eff off peacenik

well I'm not sure how I feel about whacking citizens.  I don't think you should be able to eject from the legal process by hiding in Yemen while continuing your operations without repercussions.  Maybe the US should have tried a bit harder to get him back.

eff.  That.  The United States already wastes enough money as it is on our defense spending.  No reason to waste even more resources trying to arrest some anti-American terrorist scumbag who has been actively working for al Qaeda.  If you go to Yemen, denounce the United States, and plot terrorist attacks with al Qaeda, you deserve to get bombed to pieces.

Good to see you are now fiscal conservative and a hawk (war, not KU).

[OregonSmock]

So we've basically eliminated a lot of the ridiculous bureaucracy that we used to have to go through to kill members of al Qaeda.  We can either bring the fight to the terrorists, or we can wait for another 9/11 to occur.

If by ridiculous bureaucracy you mean the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 14th amendments you would be correct.

eff off peacenik

well I'm not sure how I feel about whacking citizens.  I don't think you should be able to eject from the legal process by hiding in Yemen while continuing your operations without repercussions.  Maybe the US should have tried a bit harder to get him back.

eff.  That.  The United States already wastes enough money as it is on our defense spending.  No reason to waste even more resources trying to arrest some anti-American terrorist scumbag who has been actively working for al Qaeda.  If you go to Yemen, denounce the United States, and plot terrorist attacks with al Qaeda, you deserve to get bombed to pieces.

Good to see you are now fiscal conservative and a hawk (war, not KU).

The drone war actually keeps troops off of the ground and keeps us out of traditional war.  I'm far from a hawk, although I do see strengths in fiscal conservatism.

[felix rex]

I did enjoy the joke about how the memo defines "al Qaeda number two" broadly enough to be an ethnic group.

I will say that internally, people bristle at the notion that their targeting work is haphazard or reckless or sloppy or that they are heartless. You can learn a lot about a person by tracking them for months or even years, and even when you know the things they've done or plan to do, it is no small thing to hear their wife and kids crying and confused when they get the news. It wrecks some people.

I am sympathetic to both sides and agree with the opinion that the technology of war has outpaced the ethics of war, even while being unsure whether there are or ever were concrete ethics or just moral facades for one side to rationalize and the other to exploit.

Sorry, but maybe it should've set off some ethical triggers in people when we were torturing people.  It should bug the hell out of people that we maintain kangaroo courts.  It should bug people that we've constructed set of emergency procedures that have been in place for the entirety of the longest war in American history and show no sign of being removed.  The technology has clearly outpaced the ethics of war, but it is clear the ethics gave way first and that the technological interventions flourished with the benefit of a less restrictive ethical code, not in spite of one.  And I see no signs that any of these apparatuses of perpetual war, executive power and violations of the 1st and the 4th through 8th amendments will be dismantled for a very long time.

Yeah. None of this is going away, except the torture. If it means anything, I've never tortured anyone, KK. I'm a soft power guy.

What about rendition; is that going away?

Honest guess? No. Not entirely. It will be re-branded (again) and have more legal hurdles to clear. But it won't go away, IMO.

[HeinBallz]

So we've basically eliminated a lot of the ridiculous bureaucracy that we used to have to go through to kill members of al Qaeda.  We can either bring the fight to the terrorists, or we can wait for another 9/11 to occur.

16 year old kid.  No judge. No Jury.  No prison time.  In every legal sense, a minor - Targeted & Killed. 

[HeinBallz]

Is there anything I should be doing to avoid being assassinated by Obama?

don't leave the country.

[wetwillie]

Is there anything I should be doing to avoid being assassinated by Obama?

don't leave the country.

Should avoid having brown skin too

[HeinBallz]

Bottom line:  Regardless of if you Hate Bush or Obama - Looking back, Would you have given power to Bush knowing Obama would abuse it? Are you willing to give power to Obama, that the next "Bush" can abuse? 

This started with the Patriot Act & Bush.  The NDAA was written by McCain & endorsed by nearly every politician holding an office - Especially Obama. 

This should sicken everyone.

[HeinBallz]

Is there anything I should be doing to avoid being assassinated by Obama?

don't leave the country.

Should avoid having brown skin too

and a funny last name.

"Anwahr Ala...  Ala...  Alawah...  NOT 'MERICAN - WHO CARES!?!"

[OregonSmock]

Is there anything I should be doing to avoid being assassinated by Obama?

don't leave the country.

Should avoid having brown skin too

and a funny last name.

"Anwahr Ala...  Ala...  Alawah...  NOT 'MERICAN - WHO CARES!?!"

Umm... the only reason anyone is bitching about this is because these guys were born in the United States.  I could give a crap less if he's black, white, brown, yellow, or green.  These guys were working for al Qaeda and had already been involved in multiple terrorist attacks.  The 16 year-old kid would have probably ended up just like his piece of crap, anti-American, Koran thumping father.  I mean if you want to go to Yemen and start working for al Qaeda, be my guest.  That's not a right I'm willing to fight for.