Another school shooting

[Cire]

I'm sure next year will be worse.

I don't see it getting better.  I think draconian gun control stuff would help a lot (and at this point, i'm firmly in the draconian gun control camp), but it's hard to ignore that there's a serious problem with young men in the US.  Just a lot of amoral rage that apparently enough people fantasize about and actually carry out.  Either "for the memes" (which I think is the root for most of these) or some dipshit cultural purpose (which I think a lot of the "for the memes" types latch onto because of shock value). 

Whatever it is, I do think that these weirdo online corners of the internet like 4chan that a lot of incels and otherwise perpetually online, lonely young men flock to are a tinderbox.  And when guns are super easy to get, these guys can explode.  That (insanely easy access to weapons) I think is the key ingredient to the America problem.  Though, (for whatever reason), I don't think that's the only ingredient.  I think there's something else going on with a lot of American young men that (for whatever reason) isn't going on in a lot of other western countries. Have no real clue what it is though. 

It just seems like in the last decade, there's been a lot of young men in the US eager to take others with them when they decide they want to kill themselves. Obviously removing guns (i.e. making them much harder to obtain) from that equation helps (and we should do it), but I don't think it totally solves that problem, which, imo is a relatively new phenomenon.

They are being told by the media that they consume and their religious leaders that their way of life is in danger and if they don't act then they aren't a patriot.

[steve dave]

I'm sure next year will be worse.

I don't see it getting better.  I think draconian gun control stuff would help a lot (and at this point, i'm firmly in the draconian gun control camp), but it's hard to ignore that there's a serious problem with young men in the US.  Just a lot of amoral rage that apparently enough people fantasize about and actually carry out.  Either "for the memes" (which I think is the root for most of these) or some dipshit cultural purpose (which I think a lot of the "for the memes" types latch onto because of shock value). 

Whatever it is, I do think that these weirdo online corners of the internet like 4chan that a lot of incels and otherwise perpetually online, lonely young men flock to are a tinderbox.  And when guns are super easy to get, these guys can explode.  That (insanely easy access to weapons) I think is the key ingredient to the America problem.  Though, (for whatever reason), I don't think that's the only ingredient.  I think there's something else going on with a lot of American young men that (for whatever reason) isn't going on in a lot of other western countries. Have no real clue what it is though. 

It just seems like in the last decade, there's been a lot of young men in the US eager to take others with them when they decide they want to kill themselves. Obviously removing guns (i.e. making them much harder to obtain) from that equation helps (and we should do it), but I don't think it totally solves that problem, which, imo is a relatively new phenomenon.

I don't think our young male population is any different than the rest of the world. and I agree with cire that a big piece of that anger is being stoked by media and their elders, but that's not unique here either imo. certainly have those far right replacement theory personalities in europe as well. there are radicalized hate forums/groups like this everywhere. ours have a VERY different ability to access mass casualty weapons with little to zero barriers though. almost encouraged to do so in a lot of places. agree on the draconian measures need to happen immediately though. won't be easy, but will be necessary.

[Dugout DickStone]

I'm sure next year will be worse.

I don't see it getting better.  I think draconian gun control stuff would help a lot (and at this point, i'm firmly in the draconian gun control camp), but it's hard to ignore that there's a serious problem with young men in the US.  Just a lot of amoral rage that apparently enough people fantasize about and actually carry out.  Either "for the memes" (which I think is the root for most of these) or some dipshit cultural purpose (which I think a lot of the "for the memes" types latch onto because of shock value). 

Whatever it is, I do think that these weirdo online corners of the internet like 4chan that a lot of incels and otherwise perpetually online, lonely young men flock to are a tinderbox.  And when guns are super easy to get, these guys can explode.  That (insanely easy access to weapons) I think is the key ingredient to the America problem.  Though, (for whatever reason), I don't think that's the only ingredient.  I think there's something else going on with a lot of American young men that (for whatever reason) isn't going on in a lot of other western countries. Have no real clue what it is though. 

It just seems like in the last decade, there's been a lot of young men in the US eager to take others with them when they decide they want to kill themselves. Obviously removing guns (i.e. making them much harder to obtain) from that equation helps (and we should do it), but I don't think it totally solves that problem, which, imo is a relatively new phenomenon.

I don't think our young male population is any different than the rest of the world. and I agree with cire that a big piece of that anger is being stoked by media and their elders, but that's not unique here either imo. certainly have those far right replacement theory personalities in europe as well. there are radicalized hate forums/groups like this everywhere. ours have a VERY different ability to access mass casualty weapons with little to zero barriers though. almost encouraged to do so in a lot of places. agree on the draconian measures need to happen immediately though. won't be easy, but will be necessary.

this.  These guys are egging each other on by posting bed gun photos and bragging about their armor.  The fact that a guy who got booted out of the military because they didn't trust him with military weapons went and easily bought a military weapon should be a huge problem in anyone's eyes.

[DQ12]

I'm sure next year will be worse.

I don't see it getting better.  I think draconian gun control stuff would help a lot (and at this point, i'm firmly in the draconian gun control camp), but it's hard to ignore that there's a serious problem with young men in the US.  Just a lot of amoral rage that apparently enough people fantasize about and actually carry out.  Either "for the memes" (which I think is the root for most of these) or some dipshit cultural purpose (which I think a lot of the "for the memes" types latch onto because of shock value). 

Whatever it is, I do think that these weirdo online corners of the internet like 4chan that a lot of incels and otherwise perpetually online, lonely young men flock to are a tinderbox.  And when guns are super easy to get, these guys can explode.  That (insanely easy access to weapons) I think is the key ingredient to the America problem.  Though, (for whatever reason), I don't think that's the only ingredient.  I think there's something else going on with a lot of American young men that (for whatever reason) isn't going on in a lot of other western countries. Have no real clue what it is though. 

It just seems like in the last decade, there's been a lot of young men in the US eager to take others with them when they decide they want to kill themselves. Obviously removing guns (i.e. making them much harder to obtain) from that equation helps (and we should do it), but I don't think it totally solves that problem, which, imo is a relatively new phenomenon.

I don't think our young male population is any different than the rest of the world. and I agree with cire that a big piece of that anger is being stoked by media and their elders, but that's not unique here either imo. certainly have those far right replacement theory personalities in europe as well. there are radicalized hate forums/groups like this everywhere. ours have a VERY different ability to access mass casualty weapons with little to zero barriers though. almost encouraged to do so in a lot of places. agree on the draconian measures need to happen immediately though. won't be easy, but will be necessary.

yeah.  maybe it's as simple as "every country has an amoral, lonely, potentially violent subsection of young men, we just give ours incredibly easy access to killing machines."  that's a pretty good explanation, imo.  could be the only explanation needed.

it just strikes me as odd to think that "but for lack of access to AR-15s, UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia would have as many per capita mass killing incidents as the US." conversely, it strikes me as pretty idealistic to say "but for easy access to guns, we would have as many mass killing incidents as UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia."  that could be true. could be my American exceptionalism is showing.  it just seems to me that something has gotten a lot worse, especially in the US in the last 25 or 30 years, and especially especially in the last 5 years or so.  And i'm not sure it correlates neatly to any single thing (guns, politics/culture dialogue, internet).

[michigancat]

it just strikes me as odd to think that "but for lack of access to AR-15s, UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia would have as many per capita mass killing incidents as the US." conversely, it strikes me as pretty idealistic to say "but for easy access to guns, we would have as many mass killing incidents as UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia."

why is that odd/idealistic?

[DQ12]

it just strikes me as odd to think that "but for lack of access to AR-15s, UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia would have as many per capita mass killing incidents as the US." conversely, it strikes me as pretty idealistic to say "but for easy access to guns, we would have as many mass killing incidents as UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia."

why is that odd/idealistic?

i don't know.  it may not be.  it just seems like we have a lot more psychopaths willing to do violence per capita than other countries. 

I guess if you're that committed to "going out in a blaze of glory" (i hate using that phrase here, but I think it applies to the psychology of basically all of these people), you're going to figure out a way to do it, even if you can't get an AR-15.

[wetwillie]

Look at the events that lead to the UK and New Zealand banning guns and I think it’s hard to argue that weirdos with capacity for violence is a USA specific phenomenon.

[michigancat]

  it just seems like we have a lot more psychopaths willing to do violence per capita than other countries. 

Hmm, could it be all the mass shootings that are clouding your perception?

[DQ12]

Look at the events that lead to the UK and New Zealand banning guns and I think it’s hard to argue that weirdos with capacity for violence is a USA specific phenomenon.

Very interesting stuff (and oddly encouraging that the problem may be *that* easy to solve).

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-ban-hand-guns-laws-rules-ownership-b1070718.html

Go get the guns, uncle sam.

[DQ12]

  it just seems like we have a lot more psychopaths willing to do violence per capita than other countries. 

Hmm, could it be all the mass shootings that are clouding your perception?

Well that and the things like the bus stop car crash that killed 8 people on Sunday.

[Cire]

I think that banning high powered AR's etc, high capacity mags and any type of mod that makes a gun fire more rapidly is the start.

You're not going to go around looking for them but as people get arrested with them they get fewer etc.

Our Gun problem will take generations to fix and I doubt we have the fortitude as a nation to fix it because so many people have absolute brain worms on the issue.

[Spracne]

Some state (California?) just needs to ban all guns that are incompatible with the guns available in 1791 and just get the ball rolling.

[CNS]

You want to talk some crazy talk?  Maybe, if you buy body armor, or and AR, or something else, you don't get access to the internet. 

I am not saying this is what I think, but throwing out a crazy statement since our world doesn't like obvious solutions.

What if radical groups didn't have access to weak minds, even though the weak minds had access to guns?  What if weak minds didn't have extreme access to propaganda?

I am going to check my pocket Constitution real quick to see if we have any special Internet clause or amendments. 

If not that, Chris Rock has a great solution in making ammo ridic expensive.

[sonofdaxjones]

The Allen TX shooter idolized the Nashville shooter. 

I just need a clarification from #blueanongE as to what you classify as "radicalization".

[Spracne]

The Allen TX shooter idolized the Nashville shooter. 

I just need a clarification from #blueanongE as to what you classify as "radicalization".

Pathetic attempt.

[sonofdaxjones]

The Allen TX shooter idolized the Nashville shooter. 

I just need a clarification from #blueanongE as to what you classify as "radicalization".

Pathetic attempt.

That's not an answer.  You're absolutely pathetic because you know the answer, you just won't admit it it.

1000% #onbrand

[Spracne]

I have no idea what you're talking about at all. If you want to talk about the Allen, TX shooter's beliefs, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.

[sonofdaxjones]

I have no idea what you're talking about at all. If you want to talk about the Allen, TX shooter's beliefs, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.

The playing dumb shtick is old and tired

[wetwillie]

You want to talk some crazy talk?  Maybe, if you buy body armor, or and AR, or something else, you don't get access to the internet. 

I am not saying this is what I think, but throwing out a crazy statement since our world doesn't like obvious solutions.

What if radical groups didn't have access to weak minds, even though the weak minds had access to guns?  What if weak minds didn't have extreme access to propaganda?

I am going to check my pocket Constitution real quick to see if we have any special Internet clause or amendments. 

If not that, Chris Rock has a great solution in making ammo ridic expensive.

Just ban the AR-15 platform. It’s what basically every mass shooter uses because it’s highly effective at killing people at short/medium ranges.

[Cartierfor3]

it just strikes me as odd to think that "but for lack of access to AR-15s, UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia would have as many per capita mass killing incidents as the US." conversely, it strikes me as pretty idealistic to say "but for easy access to guns, we would have as many mass killing incidents as UK/Australia/Germany/Scandinavia."

why is that odd/idealistic?

IMO there are a lot of things those places are doing better than us, not just gun control.

[Cire]

Schools could probably head off some of these folks and intervene early, but we know how our culture views schools.  Magas are on a crusade to end all Social/Emotional Learning as it is Communist.

Kids don't listen to your groomer teachers ETC.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/27/stopping-mass-shooters-q-a-00035762

Peterson: We don’t know for sure at this point, but our research would say that it’s likely. You had an 18-year-old commit a horrific mass shooting. His name is everywhere and we all spend days talking about “replacement theory.” That shooter was able to get our attention. So, if you have another 18-year-old who is on the edge and watching everything, that could be enough to embolden him to follow. We have seen this happen before.


Densley: Mass shooters study other mass shooters. They often find a way of relating to them, like, “There are other people out there who feel like me.”

POLITICO: Can you take us through the profile of mass shooters that emerged from your research?

Peterson: There’s this really consistent pathway. Early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether violence in the home, sexual assault, parental suicides, extreme bullying. Then you see the build toward hopelessness, despair, isolation, self-loathing, oftentimes rejection from peers. That turns into a really identifiable crisis point where they’re acting differently. Sometimes they have previous suicide attempts.

 

What’s different from traditional suicide is that the self-hate turns against a group. They start asking themselves, “Whose fault is this?” Is it a racial group or women or a religious group, or is it my classmates? The hate turns outward. There’s also this quest for fame and notoriety.

POLITICO: You’ve written about how mass shootings are always acts of violent suicide. Do people realize this is what’s happening in mass shootings?

Peterson: I don’t think most people realize that these are suicides, in addition to homicides. Mass shooters design these to be their final acts. When you realize this, it completely flips the idea that someone with a gun on the scene is going to deter this. If anything, that’s an incentive for these individuals. They are going in to be killed.

It’s hard to focus on the suicide because these are horrific homicides. But it’s a critical piece because we know so much from the suicide prevention world that can translate here.

[CNS]

You want to talk some crazy talk?  Maybe, if you buy body armor, or and AR, or something else, you don't get access to the internet. 

I am not saying this is what I think, but throwing out a crazy statement since our world doesn't like obvious solutions.

What if radical groups didn't have access to weak minds, even though the weak minds had access to guns?  What if weak minds didn't have extreme access to propaganda?

I am going to check my pocket Constitution real quick to see if we have any special Internet clause or amendments. 

If not that, Chris Rock has a great solution in making ammo ridic expensive.

Just ban the AR-15 platform. It’s what basically every mass shooter uses because it’s highly effective at killing people at short/medium ranges.

You and your obvious solutions.

[Dugout DickStone]

what does right wing death squad mean?

[MakeItRain]

gun free zone.  gotta be fair.

I'm interested to know where you read that, what media entity thought that was a relevant fact worth inserting. For the record, that's an outdoor mall, in Texas, stands to reason that there were probably more people legally carrying pieces on their person than people leaving them in their cars.

I wonder why things seem to be quite a bit worse this year.

I sure hope the trend of relaxed gun regulations is part of this conversation.

[DQ12]

gun free zone.  gotta be fair.

I'm interested to know where you read that, what media entity thought that was a relevant fact worth inserting. For the record, that's an outdoor mall, in Texas, stands to reason that there were probably more people legally carrying pieces on their person than people leaving them in their cars.

I wonder why things seem to be quite a bit worse this year.

I sure hope the trend of relaxed gun regulations is part of this conversation.

The gun free zone comment was tongue in cheek.  Though I did see a twitter post or something claiming it was a gun free zone.