Author Topic: Another school shooting  (Read 676107 times)

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Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3575 on: October 08, 2015, 10:31:13 AM »
you wanna know what's unbelievable to me? there are mass shooting truthers. like, people who believe these are hoaxes

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3576 on: October 08, 2015, 10:35:47 AM »
you wanna know what's unbelievable to me? there are mass shooting truthers. like, people who believe these are hoaxes
It shouldn't be. It's human nature to try to make things like this not seem random. Our minds constantly look for and create patterns where there are none. That's what truthers are doing.



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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3579 on: October 08, 2015, 10:45:16 AM »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3580 on: October 08, 2015, 10:54:57 AM »

gah, was this already posted?  :frown:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/us-usa-tennessee-child-shooting-idUSKCN0RZ2I720151005

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/2015/10/05/fifth-grader-kills-girl-8-dispute-over-puppy/73422682/

Yeah. Not much to discuss, really. Hopefully the kid isn't punished too much because it's really not his fault.

I think 11 is old enough to understand what is going to happen if you shoot somebody in the chest with a shotgun. I'm not saying the kid needs life in prison, but at the very least he should be in juvenile detention until he turns 18.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3581 on: October 08, 2015, 10:58:38 AM »

gah, was this already posted?  :frown:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/us-usa-tennessee-child-shooting-idUSKCN0RZ2I720151005

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/2015/10/05/fifth-grader-kills-girl-8-dispute-over-puppy/73422682/

Yeah. Not much to discuss, really. Hopefully the kid isn't punished too much because it's really not his fault.

I think 11 is old enough to understand what is going to happen if you shoot somebody in the chest with a shotgun. I'm not saying the kid needs life in prison, but at the very least he should be in juvenile detention until he turns 18.

I disagree with the first part, at least with regards to the consequences/risk assessment:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=3943187&page=1

I guess it also depends on the kids' history, what type of detention center he would be going to, whether or not the parents will be in prison, etc.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3582 on: October 08, 2015, 11:18:30 AM »
So Rusty, your proposal is adding background checks for private sales? Why would that help? How many of these mass shootings would that have prevented? How many criminal injuries or deaths result from guns legally purchased in private sales without background checks?

Background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration would reduce the number of guns that enter the black market. It probably wouldn't do much to reduce mass shootings but could help the overall criminal injury rate.

Hopefully, a new education and licensing program would filter out some of the mentally ill that conduct mass shootings, but perhaps more importantly, it could help reduce the insane number of accidental shootings of and by children every year and keep guns out of the hands of the suicidal.

We should also look at ways to make guns safer, such as better/mandatory locks or perhaps fingerprint recognition safeties. (This isn't a complete list, and these aren't necessarily feasible at this time.)

None of these things will instantly reduce gun deaths, but it's a start and something gun owners should support before God forbid something worse than Sandy Hook takes place and people actually want to do something more drastic.

How do background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration reduce the number of guns in the black market? What do you define as the "black market"?

How would that significantly reduce accidental shooting deaths?

And again, you finish by mentioning Sandy Hook, but I don't see how anything you've proposed actually prevents mass killings by crazies in any meaningful way.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3583 on: October 08, 2015, 11:34:48 AM »
So Rusty, your proposal is adding background checks for private sales? Why would that help? How many of these mass shootings would that have prevented? How many criminal injuries or deaths result from guns legally purchased in private sales without background checks?

Background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration would reduce the number of guns that enter the black market. It probably wouldn't do much to reduce mass shootings but could help the overall criminal injury rate.

Hopefully, a new education and licensing program would filter out some of the mentally ill that conduct mass shootings, but perhaps more importantly, it could help reduce the insane number of accidental shootings of and by children every year and keep guns out of the hands of the suicidal.

We should also look at ways to make guns safer, such as better/mandatory locks or perhaps fingerprint recognition safeties. (This isn't a complete list, and these aren't necessarily feasible at this time.)

None of these things will instantly reduce gun deaths, but it's a start and something gun owners should support before God forbid something worse than Sandy Hook takes place and people actually want to do something more drastic.

How do background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration reduce the number of guns in the black market? What do you define as the "black market"?

How would that significantly reduce accidental shooting deaths?

And again, you finish by mentioning Sandy Hook, but I don't see how anything you've proposed actually prevents mass killings by crazies in any meaningful way.

I mean, I explicitly said none of those things would instantly reduce gun deaths. But it's a start that includes nothing that violates the second amendment - if the registration, education, improved background checks, new gun designs and safety features, etc., aren't working, you figure out why and adjust. The notion that "nothing short of eliminating the second amendment will almost entirely eliminate gun deaths" is a terrible reason to do nothing.

Offline mocat

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3584 on: October 08, 2015, 11:36:30 AM »
KSUW do you think anything at all should change regarding how guns are available in this country?

Follow-up: why does USA have such a hilariously larger problem with mass shootings than any other country on earth, if not because the USA has such a hilariously larger gun population than any other country on earth?

again, not looking to trap you or something. i just am looking for answers because i am tired of mass shootings like everyone else is.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3585 on: October 08, 2015, 11:37:14 AM »
How does this effect guns sold by Obama and holder to Mexican drug cartels via operation fast and furious?????
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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3586 on: October 08, 2015, 11:43:45 AM »
So Rusty, your proposal is adding background checks for private sales? Why would that help? How many of these mass shootings would that have prevented? How many criminal injuries or deaths result from guns legally purchased in private sales without background checks?

Background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration would reduce the number of guns that enter the black market. It probably wouldn't do much to reduce mass shootings but could help the overall criminal injury rate.

Hopefully, a new education and licensing program would filter out some of the mentally ill that conduct mass shootings, but perhaps more importantly, it could help reduce the insane number of accidental shootings of and by children every year and keep guns out of the hands of the suicidal.

We should also look at ways to make guns safer, such as better/mandatory locks or perhaps fingerprint recognition safeties. (This isn't a complete list, and these aren't necessarily feasible at this time.)

None of these things will instantly reduce gun deaths, but it's a start and something gun owners should support before God forbid something worse than Sandy Hook takes place and people actually want to do something more drastic.

How do background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration reduce the number of guns in the black market? What do you define as the "black market"?

How would that significantly reduce accidental shooting deaths?

And again, you finish by mentioning Sandy Hook, but I don't see how anything you've proposed actually prevents mass killings by crazies in any meaningful way.

I mean, I explicitly said none of those things would instantly reduce gun deaths. But it's a start that includes nothing that violates the second amendment - if the registration, education, improved background checks, new gun designs and safety features, etc., aren't working, you figure out why and adjust. The notion that "nothing short of eliminating the second amendment will almost entirely eliminate gun deaths" is a terrible reason to do nothing.

I'm not trying to argue with you or push a point of view. I don't know much about this so I'm curious. I really want to know why you think things like a national gun registry would help.

But I don't think saying "well, I don't know if this will help or not, but what's the harm in trying?" is an acceptable answer. Unless there's a real benefit (and maybe there is), I don't think we should force people to register to exercise a consitutional right - not a privilege, like driving, but a right.

Then there's the cost. I did some quick Googling and found that Canada tried to implement a similar national gun registry. They originally estimated it would cost $2 million. :lol: As I understand it, it then ballooned to over $500 million, achieved little if any perceivable benefit, and has now been mostly scrapped? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Firearms_Registry

So again, I'm not rying to put down any ideas - I just genuinely want to know your reasoning.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3587 on: October 08, 2015, 11:46:58 AM »
So Rusty, your proposal is adding background checks for private sales? Why would that help? How many of these mass shootings would that have prevented? How many criminal injuries or deaths result from guns legally purchased in private sales without background checks?

Background checks for private sales combined with mandatory registration would reduce the number of guns that enter the black market. It probably wouldn't do much to reduce mass shootings but could help the overall criminal injury rate.

Hopefully, a new education and licensing program would filter out some of the mentally ill that conduct mass shootings, but perhaps more importantly, it could help reduce the insane number of accidental shootings of and by children every year and keep guns out of the hands of the suicidal.

We should also look at ways to make guns safer, such as better/mandatory locks or perhaps fingerprint recognition safeties. (This isn't a complete list, and these aren't necessarily feasible at this time.)

None of these things will instantly reduce gun deaths, but it's a start and something gun owners should support before God forbid something worse than Sandy Hook takes place and people actually want to do something more drastic.

Is this a Stupid List of Stupid Ideas that are proven failures or fantasy (fingerprint safeties?? are you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)?)???  The non-fantasy crap is already in place in numerous states and munis (often on a stricter level) and has done demonstrably nothing to improve the perceived problem you are trying to negate. Perhaps, this is all subterfuge to tax guns, and if so, just say it and discontinue the intellectual dishonesty and blatant hypocrisy.

Why not retina scans pre discharge? Perhaps planting a tracking device in everyone's skull who owns a gun? How can you have such disregard for personal privacy and property rights when it comes to guns, but nothing else???

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3588 on: October 08, 2015, 11:50:23 AM »
KSUW do you think anything at all should change regarding how guns are available in this country?

I don't know. Haven't given enough thought to the issue. I'm toying with the idea of holding gun owners liable for the way their guns are used unless they're reported stolen to police (maybe that's where the national registry comes in), but I don't know if even that would really help.

Follow-up: why does USA have such a hilariously larger problem with mass shootings than any other country on earth, if not because the USA has such a hilariously larger gun population than any other country on earth?

Well, I think you just answered the question. Doesn't the US account for something like half of all privately owned guns on the planet? But again, the only solution to that would be a massive effort to confiscate/buy back guns kinda like Australia tried, and that's not gonna happen. Even if it did, it would take decades to filter out guns, and most of those guns would be forfeited by law abiding people. The guns are here. The genie is out of the bottle. I suspect that solutions that focus more on prevention and mental illness might be more effective.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3589 on: October 08, 2015, 12:03:49 PM »
I really want to know why you think things like a national gun registry would help.

Here are why Canada did it (along with arguments as to why it wouldn't work):

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_registration_ca.html

Quote
Unless there's a real benefit (and maybe there is), I don't think we should force people to register to exercise a consitutional right - not a privilege, like driving, but a right.

I think we should when the right in question is owning a tool designed to kill people. Plus, isn't voting a right? How do you feel about voter registration?

Quote
Then there's the cost. I did some quick Googling and found that Canada tried to implement a similar national gun registry. They originally estimated it would cost $2 million. :lol: As I understand it, it then ballooned to over $500 million, achieved little if any perceivable benefit, and has now been mostly scrapped? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Firearms_Registry

gun owners should cover the cost when they purchase a gun.


Offline steve dave

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3590 on: October 08, 2015, 12:12:38 PM »
A lot of people are spending a lot of time, money, and energy fighting for the "do nothing" side of this thing. If everyone was using their time spent telling the other side "THAT WON'T WORK!" on working on something they believe would work we may eventually get somewhere.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3591 on: October 08, 2015, 12:15:36 PM »
A lot of people are spending a lot of time, money, and energy fighting for the "do nothing" side of this thing. If everyone was using their time spent telling the other side "THAT WON'T WORK!" on working on something they believe would work we may eventually get somewhere.

It's in their best interest to start doing something on their terms while they still can. Yeah, most people are pretty numb to mass shootings now, but they won't be forever.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3593 on: October 08, 2015, 12:32:20 PM »
Libtard statists love them some unfounded bureaucracy to further their police state. Fear mongering to the masses to push gun control; they've evolved into their own Dick Cheney characiture. It's quite hilarious, and pathetic.
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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3594 on: October 08, 2015, 12:38:27 PM »
But again, the only solution to that would be a massive effort to confiscate/buy back guns kinda like Australia tried, and that's not gonna happen. Even if it did, it would take decades to filter out guns, and most of those guns would be forfeited by law abiding people. The guns are here. The genie is out of the bottle. I suspect that solutions that focus more on prevention and mental illness might be more effective.
I really, really find the "the genie's already out of the bottle" issue to be true.  The amount of guns in this country make comparisons to other countries completely apples and oranges.  That said, if we start getting serious about ammunition, then that is negated to some degree.


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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3595 on: October 08, 2015, 12:38:56 PM »
Libtard statists love them some unfounded bureaucracy to further their police state. Fear mongering to the masses to push gun control; they've evolved into their own Dick Cheney characiture. It's quite hilarious, and pathetic.

I would like less spying on citizens in the name of terrorism reduction. It's a far higher priority for me than gun control. To me, it's a more important right, too.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3596 on: October 08, 2015, 12:42:17 PM »
got pricked by a needle in a hay stack the other day. Should we ban needles, or just start with the federal needle registry thing. Maybe force seemstresses to pay a needle registration tax and install cameras on needles.

WAKE UP PEOPLE
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MUST OVERSEE A NATIONAL PROGRAM TO PREVENT THIS
DO SOMETHING

Why did a seemstress put the needle in the hay stack? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT
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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3597 on: October 08, 2015, 12:42:34 PM »
Unless there's a real benefit (and maybe there is), I don't think we should force people to register to exercise a consitutional right - not a privilege, like driving, but a right.

I think we should when the right in question is owning a tool designed to kill people. Plus, isn't voting a right? How do you feel about voter registration?

I've heard that argument and maybe there's some validity to it. But the main reason we require voter registration is to prevent voter fraud, because voter fraud disenfranchises all of us. Without registration, you'd have people stuffing ballot boxes, voting in multiple precincts, etc. Thus, voter registration actually protects our right to vote by protecting the value of our votes.

I don't think a correspondingly strong argument can be made for national gun registration protecting our right to own guns.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3598 on: October 08, 2015, 12:43:48 PM »
A lot of people are spending a lot of time, money, and energy fighting for the "do nothing" side of this thing. If everyone was using their time spent telling the other side "THAT WON'T WORK!" on working on something they believe would work we may eventually get somewhere.

People in this thread mentioned grounds for compromise that were instantly disregarded without consideration.  I perceive that compromise on this issue is not an option.

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Re: Another school shooting
« Reply #3599 on: October 08, 2015, 12:44:58 PM »
Libtard statists love them some unfounded bureaucracy to further their police state. Fear mongering to the masses to push gun control; they've evolved into their own Dick Cheney characiture. It's quite hilarious, and pathetic.

I would like less spying on citizens in the name of terrorism reduction. It's a far higher priority for me than gun control. To me, it's a more important right, too.

I'm sure you do. The spying thing is ostensibly working, so ditch that. I didn't realize inalienable rights could be prioritized - that's an interesting police state negotiating stance.

Get the eff out of here.
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