Another school shooting

['taterblast]

The Confederate Battle Flag is not about racism.  The vast majority of those who fought for the South in the civil war weren't fighting for slavery.  They did not own slaves, and they would never be wealthy enough to be able to participate in the enterprise.  What they were fighting for was freedom from northern encroachment into their self-governance.

If we banned the public display of the flag on the grounds that it is a symbol of oppression or even murder in the name of white supremacy, would you also support the Native Americans if they were to bring a cause against the American Flag as a symbol of the same?  Remember that the Union troops were flying Old Glory as they struck out West, slaughtering and displacing native groups with extreme prejudice.  So, who decides which symbolic meanings should be attached to these flags?

For many Southerners, the Confederate Battle Flag is a nod to their past and a symbol of their rebellious spirit.  The displaying of the flag does not represent a true act of sedition, since those who fly it have been fully assimilated into the modern Republican Party.

the comparison is valid, but to me there is a difference because the confederate flag was used as a symbol in the "fight" against the civil rights movement, which is much more recent and relevant.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So, we can have a Confederate war memorial, but it can't include a Confederate flag? Or should the memorial not be on public land? Or should there not be a war memorial, period? I need someone more enlightened than me to parse this out.

The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election

It was also carried into battle by the Confederacy, but I guess that little detail doesn't matter?

Well, maybe they should put the flag on display inside the museum in a historically accurate way, rather than flying it outside with the US flag.

Like maybe at a confederate war memorial? That's seems pretty accurate.

[michigancat]

there shouldn't be a confederate war memorial. they were a bunch of dirtbags, and dirtbags don't deserve memorials.

[star seed 7]

Wonder which flag flys over the timothy McVeigh memorial

[Rage Against the McKee]

So, we can have a Confederate war memorial, but it can't include a Confederate flag? Or should the memorial not be on public land? Or should there not be a war memorial, period? I need someone more enlightened than me to parse this out.

The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election

It was also carried into battle by the Confederacy, but I guess that little detail doesn't matter?

Well, maybe they should put the flag on display inside the museum in a historically accurate way, rather than flying it outside with the US flag.

Like maybe at a confederate war memorial? That's seems pretty accurate.

If the memorial were a statue of a bunch of Southerners getting their asses kicked in battle, putting a confederate flag in their hands would be fine.

[MakeItRain]

et tu Walmart?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/index.html

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

there shouldn't be a confederate war memorial. they were a bunch of dirtbags, and dirtbags don't deserve memorials.

Yeah no. It's ok for them to have memorials.

[michigancat]

there shouldn't be a confederate war memorial. they were a bunch of dirtbags, and dirtbags don't deserve memorials.

Yeah no. It's ok for them to have memorials.

Is it ok for the 9-11 terrorists to have memorials?

[star seed 7]

there shouldn't be a confederate war memorial. they were a bunch of dirtbags, and dirtbags don't deserve memorials.

Yeah no. It's ok for them to have memorials.

Is it ok for the 9-11 terrorists to have memorials?

south carolina flag looks kinda muslimy, maybe we can have it fly over the terrorists memorial

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

there shouldn't be a confederate war memorial. they were a bunch of dirtbags, and dirtbags don't deserve memorials.

Yeah no. It's ok for them to have memorials.

Is it ok for the 9-11 terrorists to have memorials?

Did you really just compare confederate soldiers to terrorist who intentionally targeted civilians for murder? What a pit thing to do.

[star seed 7]

who do you think would be a better comparison?

[michigancat]

there shouldn't be a confederate war memorial. they were a bunch of dirtbags, and dirtbags don't deserve memorials.

Yeah no. It's ok for them to have memorials.

Is it ok for the 9-11 terrorists to have memorials?

Did you really just compare confederate soldiers to terrorist who intentionally targeted civilians for mudded?

Yes

[Spracne]

Typical ksuw, murdering up the waters.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

 

People that think the civil war was about racism or slavery are the retardiest. If you want to argue the Confederate flag is now a symbol of racism because of all the Dixiecrat KKK crap, fine. I think the swastika was once a symbol of piece. But to say the Confederate army doesn't deserve a memorial is outrageous, ignorant, bigoted, hateful and everything you dipshits purport to be against (but really are not)

[star seed 7]

i wonder how gun advocates will react to this...

http://www.inquisitr.com/2193122/charleston-shooting-sparks-hashtag-wewillshootback/

[star seed 7]

someone should have informed the confederate states that the civil war wasn't about slavery

Georgia, second sentence of their declaration:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

Mississippi, second sentence

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

South Carolina, first run-on sentence:

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right.

Texas, there's some build-up, but eff if Texas doesn't go all Aggy about slavery and how blacks are supposed to serve whites.

The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former, as one of the co-equal states thereof.

The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

Virginia makes it clear her identity as a state is tied to slaveholding in the first paragraph.

THE SECESSION ORDINANCE.
AN ORDINANCE TO REPEAL THE RATIFICATION OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BY THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, AND TO RESUME ALL THE RIGHTS AND POWERS GRANTED UNDER SAID CONSTITUTION.

The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

See what I mean.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

 

[star seed 7]

fsd:
doesn't believe in science
doesn't believe in history

[Rage Against the McKee]

A confederate war museum seems like a misuse of public funds.

[star seed 7]

the teahadists love the csa though because they actually did what the teahadists don't have the balls to do; (is that proper use spracne?) commit treason against the united states

[Spracne]

the teahadists love the csa though because they actually did what the teahadists don't have the balls to do; (is that proper use spracne?) commit treason against the united states

No--an em dash would have been your friend. The semicolon connects phrases each of which could stand as complete sentences.

[star seed 7]

gah, i hate grammer

[sys]

Yes

a really stupid thing to do.  they fought for a horrible cause.  it was also in line with the accepted mores of the time and place.  judging people by the standards of different times is stupid.

[michigancat]

Yes

a really stupid thing to do.  they fought for a horrible cause.  it was also in line with the accepted mores of the time and place.  judging people by the standards of different times is stupid.

They were pretty much the last slavery holdouts of the civilized world at the time. And it's ok to change standards for "honor" or whatever as you gain perspective.