Another school shooting

[SdK]

You're gun was stolen? Was it locked up? How did they get it? Did you file a police report?

Much in the same way if my car stereo is stolen from my unlocked car with the windows rolled down, these "stolen" claims should be laughed away.

[Emo EMAW]

I would love to hear some suggestions on how to keep people from giving guns to family members or friends. 

Make all guns registered, all transactions and exchanges of firearms reported to law enforcement, all owners must have a gun-owning license, charging people for crimes when their legally obtained guns are used to commit crimes if there was no transaction reported, etc.

They're trying this at the state level and it's failing miserably.  They're turning law abiding citizens into criminals.  Anyway we're not going to change each other's minds so this is probably pointless.

I do think that there are ways of holding people responsible.  Maybe in civil courts or something.  I'm not against that.  But loaning your friend a deer rifle to go hunting doesn't make you in the least bit liable when he does something with it that you did not expect.

[Institutional Control]

If you loan someone your car and they crash it, you're liable.

[Emo EMAW]

If you loan someone your car and they crash it, you're liable.

Liable for what?

[Institutional Control]

If you loan someone your car and they crash it, you're liable.

Liable for what?

For any damage they do with your car.

[Emo EMAW]

If you loan someone your car and they crash it, you're liable.

Liable for what?

For any damage they do with your car.

Possibly.  It's not a certainty.  I don't see how any laws on the books would be inclusive of cars or exclusive of guns.

[SdK]

Absolutely you should be responsible for whatever is done with your gun.

[Emo EMAW]

[SdK]

Owning a gun should be a great responsibility.  If you can't keep your guns from being used illegally or to commit crimes, you shouldn't own a gun.

[Emo EMAW]

If a kid finds your unsecured gun and hurts somebody?  Sure.  If you purposefully have transferred temporary ownership/responsibility to another adult then your liability should be limited. 

[SdK]

This is why the talks will get nowhere.

[SdK]

If a kid finds your unsecured gun and hurts somebody?  Sure.  If you purposefully have transferred temporary ownership/responsibility to another adult then your liability should be limited.

Why? They can get their own gun. Your liability is 0 there.

[Emo EMAW]

Don't tell me what I can and can't do with my own property.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If a kid finds your unsecured gun and hurts somebody?  Sure.  If you purposefully have transferred temporary ownership/responsibility to another adult then your liability should be limited. 

I agree with this, as long as the person you are loaning the gun to is over 18 years of age.

[SdK]

Don't tell me what I can and can't do with my own property.

Exactly. Your property. That comes with responsibilities and liabilities.

[CNS]

The loaning thing is completely unreasonable.   

There are so many guns in the population now, and guns last so long, that doing anything now to limit who has them is all but unenforceable except post-crime, which is meaningless because these school shooters are all killing themselves.

It would be more feasible, though costly, to put metal detectors and guards at all doors of high schools (I know school shootings aren't just at high schools, but the majority are). 

[michigancat]

If a kid finds your unsecured gun and hurts somebody?  Sure.  If you purposefully have transferred temporary ownership/responsibility to another adult then your liability should be limited. 

Yes, this is why the transactions should be registered with the government. Doing this would drastically reduce guns "accidentally" falling into the hands of criminals.

If a kid finds your unsecured gun and hurts somebody?  Sure.  If you purposefully have transferred temporary ownership/responsibility to another adult then your liability should be limited. 

I agree with this, as long as the person you are loaning the gun to is over 18 years of age.

And has a gun-operating license that I also proposed.

[michigancat]

The loaning thing is completely unreasonable.   

There are so many guns in the population now, and guns last so long, that doing anything now to limit who has them is all but unenforceable except post-crime, which is meaningless because these school shooters are all killing themselves.

I'm not saying limit them - I'm suggesting we register all transactions. If a gun is used in a crime and you didn't report missing or register its transfer, you should face criminal consequences.

[Emo EMAW]

The loaning thing is completely unreasonable.   

There are so many guns in the population now, and guns last so long, that doing anything now to limit who has them is all but unenforceable except post-crime, which is meaningless because these school shooters are all killing themselves.

I'm not saying limit them - I'm suggesting we register all transactions. If a gun is used in a crime and you didn't report missing or register its transfer, you should face criminal consequences.

How does the registery actually stop the crime?

[SdK]

There are so many guns in the population now, and guns last so long, that doing anything now to limit who has them is all but unenforceable except post-crime, which is meaningless because these school shooters are all killing themselves.

I dont' care if it takes 1, 2, 5 years to get them all accounted for. Just give a deadline for people to register their fire arms. I'd even be ok with amnesty for all current illegal guns. Saying it is a lost cause is a cop out. Things take time, I get this. There is no overnight solution. I'm not advocating for any guns being taken away, anything of the sort. Just give people a time frame to register. After that, any guns not registered are illegal.

I'm miffed by a side that seems to be so personal responsibility and pulling one up by their boot straps is so opposite on this issue. Have your guns. Keep your guns. Be responsible. Guns can kill people. When you give a gun to someone you are giving them the power to shoot someone. A power they didn't have previously.

[steve dave]

you should have to wear the sign of the beast in order to own or operate a gun or make any monetary transaction

[michigancat]

The loaning thing is completely unreasonable.   

There are so many guns in the population now, and guns last so long, that doing anything now to limit who has them is all but unenforceable except post-crime, which is meaningless because these school shooters are all killing themselves.

I'm not saying limit them - I'm suggesting we register all transactions. If a gun is used in a crime and you didn't report missing or register its transfer, you should face criminal consequences.

How does the registery actually stop the crime?

It doesn't stop the actual crime, but it reduces the number of guns being "lost" to the black market. According to your stats, that's the second largest category of where criminals receive their guns (it could be the first by now).

[sys]

we've collectively decided, as a country, that the occasional massacre is okay with us. It's the price we're willing to pay for our precious Second Amendment freedoms. We're content to forfeit the lives of a few dozen schoolkids a year as long as we get to keep our guns. The people have spoken...

given that we've all agreed, if only by our passive acquiescence, not to keep this from happening, can we please quit pretending to care? Let's just skip the histrionics this time: no pro forma shock, condolence photo ops, somber speeches, flags at half-mast, meaningless noises from liberals about legislation, meaningless counter-noises from the NRA about armed guards in elementary schools. Why bother going through the motions of soul-searching when we know very well there's nothing to search? If we can't be brave we might at least be honest: when we see the familiar helicopter shots of ambulances outside a school, the clusters of classmates hugging, the sobbing parents being led away, the makeshift shrines of candles and plush toys, instead of looking stricken or covering our mouths or saying "Oh my God" or "How horrible," let's just all look each other in the eye and say: "crap happens."

http://theweek.com/article/index/262219/there-is-no-catastrophe-so-ghastly-that-america-will-reform-its-gun-laws#axzz33DPsdvL7

i agree with this, even though the writer doesn't.

[CNS]

The loaning thing is completely unreasonable.   

There are so many guns in the population now, and guns last so long, that doing anything now to limit who has them is all but unenforceable except post-crime, which is meaningless because these school shooters are all killing themselves.

I'm not saying limit them - I'm suggesting we register all transactions. If a gun is used in a crime and you didn't report missing or register its transfer, you should face criminal consequences.

I know a several ppl that have inherited guns, don't use them, and may not even think to look for them if they were robbed and a bunch of other stuff was taken.  Criminals? 

[steve dave]

I inherited a 16 gauge and have never had any bullets for it and why the eff can't you sell a gun on craigslist and do any of you gun people want to buy it?