Liars (ticket thread that may or may not be a Frank thread)

[pissclams]

I don't believe that everything is good as long as we are profitable in college sports. That stance absolutely shits on the fans.  If that is the new stance, why shouldn't the fans treat it like a market product?

are you talking about being a bandwagon fan?

[Underdog Wildcat]

WTF are you talking about?

There was a string of 10 about posts in a row that said "I'm going to go to some of the games, but I really don't care."

Just to let everybody out there know we're not just a bunch of goEMAW zombies, I will be at the games, I do care.

So you make a post, 11 minutes after mine, where you reference mine and say you make going to the games a priority and you try to play it off that its not a callout/brag post in the middle of a discussion about why season ticket sales are down.  Bullshit.

Sounds like somebody feels a little guilty about not supporting KSU hoops.

Ticket sales aren't down because of me.

You're right that ticket sales aren't down because of you, but ticket sales aren't down because of me either.  Ticket sales are down because we hired a coach that sucked all the excitement out of the fanbase, therefore demand is down. There is no reason to invest/overpay for season tickets if you don't plan on making every game because tickets will easily be available at a lower price.  Like it or not, a portion of our fanbase bought season tickets because they viewed it as an investment with the possible return that they will have guaranteed access to tickets if team's success continued to grow and demand for tickets went up.  The oscar hire greatly lowered the possibility for that return, so they dropped their season tickets and no one is backfilling their demand. 

I in no way feel guilty for not supporting the KSU hoops players.  I'll be at just as many games, but I'm not going to reward our AD who has a higher interest in success in the financial report than success on the court by making a bad investment on season tickets.  However, you keep denying that you didn't mean that post as a callout/brag. This last post you made clearly supports that claim.

It's not a callout, it's not a brag, because that's the way it's always been and always will be with me.

Your highly emotional response proves that you really do care, but you have keep in lock step with "I hate John Currie, so I still have to crap on the basketball program" company line.

A lot of folks want to take one big continuous dump on the hoops program. I won't do it.

[CHONGS]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

[0.42]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

/thread

[Trim]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

I'm pissed about how the Frank thing went down, but can understand why some "people" aren't.

Separate issue, I'm pissed about Webber, and have a really hard time understanding how anybody isn't.

And I bought tickets, begrudgingly, because despite knowing that my purchase would be spun by the AD as approval of their leadership, I love Tay, McG, JO, Big Gip, Angel, Swagu and Shane, and sometimes EMAPE too much.  And I can actively show within the FOOD that my season ticket purchase was not a vote of approval for Currie.

[Underdog Wildcat]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

I'm pissed about how the Frank thing went down, but can understand why some "people" aren't.

Separate issue, I'm pissed about Webber, and have a really hard time understanding how anybody isn't.

And I bought tickets, begrudgingly, because despite knowing that my purchase would be spun by the AD as approval of their leadership, I love Tay, McG, JO, Big Gip, Angel, Swagu and Shane, and sometimes EMAPE too much.  And I can actively show within the FOOD that my season ticket purchase was not a vote of approval for Currie.

Success isn't guaranteed for Weber at KSU, but I'm going to support him as our coach.

If it's bragging saying I'm going to support Weber as our coach at KSU just as much as I supported Frank Martin, then fine, it is what it is.

[Trim]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

I'm pissed about how the Frank thing went down, but can understand why some "people" aren't.

Separate issue, I'm pissed about Webber, and have a really hard time understanding how anybody isn't.

And I bought tickets, begrudgingly, because despite knowing that my purchase would be spun by the AD as approval of their leadership, I love Tay, McG, JO, Big Gip, Angel, Swagu and Shane, and sometimes EMAPE too much.  And I can actively show within the FOOD that my season ticket purchase was not a vote of approval for Currie.

Success isn't guaranteed for Weber at KSU, but I'm going to support him as our coach.

If it's bragging saying I'm going to support Weber as our coach at KSU just as much as I supported Frank Martin, then fine, it is what it is.

Not talking to you.  :that smiley with the world revolving around it that MJ labeled "rusty":

[Skipper44]

Very few programs replace their exiting somewhat successful coach with a better coach on paper.

In his last 2 seasons at SIU, and his first 6 season at Illinois, Weber had a .744 winning %, won 3 conference titles, finished 2nd in the Big 10 another time, went to the Sweet 16 twice (at 2 schools), and the Final Four. 

Nobody available out there that K-State had a realistic chance of hiring had that kind of resume.   

You can rub one out all day long and twice on Sunday in regards to Gottlieb or Pearl.  But in terms of guys like Doug, if those kinds of hires go South, they typically not only go off the road, they go through the ditch, into the woods, explode and nobody finds the burnt out wreck for 20 years.   Very few, well, likely NO major conference school AD and President is going to take that chance.   In regards to Pearl, while that would have been fun (just like Gottlieb) no major conference school AD and President is in the mindset to tangle with the NCAA given their current mode and mood.

You just laid out why a competent AD does a better job to keep his successful pre-madonna revenue generating head coaches happy.  All successful coaches are drama queens, you don't get the top of an insanely competitive profession with out being insanely competitive.  Frank had a four year point guard on the roster and a top 50 big committed, his program was not going anywhere in a Big 12 that is stagnant at best. 

Sure, Currie gets credit for building the BTF and Westside Expansion but the one and only reason they were built is winning. 

My group renewed our seats because this season may be as good as it gets for a long time 

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't view the Illinois athletic department is an entity one can place any real value on in light of their hiring and firing history. 

In terms of cross conference comparo's there's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary drivers for Self to ku, was the fact that he knew it would be a much easier path in the Big 12, and the record clearly shows that to be the case.

Skipper44 . . . I've already discussed the prima donna issue and Frank.    IMO Frank was at a prima donna level only worthy of coaches sporting a lot more hardware, banners and revenue than what Frank Martin was producing. 




 

[Kat Kid]

Some people have outed themselves as unfit for getting goEMAW's fatty b-ball tickets.

I'm not happy, but I watched almost every home game during the Wooly era.  I mean, why stop now?

[Dr Rick Daris]

I don't view the Illinois athletic department is an entity one can place any real value on in light of their hiring and firing history. 

In terms of cross conference comparo's there's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary drivers for Self to ku, was the fact that he knew it would be a much easier path in the Big 12, and the record clearly shows that to be the case.

Skipper44 . . . I've already discussed the prima donna issue and Frank.    IMO Frank was at a prima donna level only worthy of coaches sporting a lot more hardware, banners and revenue than what Frank Martin was producing.

to summarize dax...

-the AD was justified in forcing frank out because he acted like a prima donna despite only being good and not great.
-very few programs replace their exiting somewhat successful coach with a better coach.
-weber was the best we could do.

[michigancat]

Some people have outed themselves as unfit for getting goEMAW's fatty b-ball tickets.

I'm not happy, but I watched almost every home game during the Wooly era.  I mean, why stop now?

That's a very good point, but the scenarios are different. Under Wooly, we were awful with little to no hope for even an NCAA tournament. Tickets were cheap, expectations were low, and we were trying to show we could buy in and support basketball, given any glimmer of hope.

Now, we've tasted success, and in the previous 5 years achieved more than should be reasonably expected at Kansas State given the past 30 years of our history, and we threw it all away in like a week.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Some people have outed themselves as unfit for getting goEMAW's fatty b-ball tickets.

I'm not happy, but I watched almost every home game during the Wooly era.  I mean, why stop now?

easy there, view from the parking lot.

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't view the Illinois athletic department is an entity one can place any real value on in light of their hiring and firing history. 

In terms of cross conference comparo's there's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary drivers for Self to ku, was the fact that he knew it would be a much easier path in the Big 12, and the record clearly shows that to be the case.

Skipper44 . . . I've already discussed the prima donna issue and Frank.    IMO Frank was at a prima donna level only worthy of coaches sporting a lot more hardware, banners and revenue than what Frank Martin was producing.

to summarize dax...

-the AD was justified in forcing frank out because he acted like a prima donna despite only being good and not great. (Frank wanted out the whole time, he just needed his cover story, and he got it)
-very few programs replace their exiting somewhat successful coach with a better coach. (Programs like K-State usually don't). 
-weber was the best we could do. (Pretty Much)

[pissclams]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

i've not read anyone post their excitement about the hire, but ok.

[Dr Rick Daris]

I don't view the Illinois athletic department is an entity one can place any real value on in light of their hiring and firing history. 

In terms of cross conference comparo's there's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary drivers for Self to ku, was the fact that he knew it would be a much easier path in the Big 12, and the record clearly shows that to be the case.

Skipper44 . . . I've already discussed the prima donna issue and Frank.    IMO Frank was at a prima donna level only worthy of coaches sporting a lot more hardware, banners and revenue than what Frank Martin was producing.

to summarize dax...

-the AD was justified in forcing frank out because he acted like a prima donna despite only being good and not great. (Frank wanted out the whole time, he just needed his cover story, and he got it)
-very few programs replace their exiting somewhat successful coach with a better coach. (Programs like K-State usually don't). 
-weber was the best we could do. (Pretty Much)

nobody needs a cover story if they want out dax, they just leave. good grief.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Some people have outed themselves as unfit for getting goEMAW's fatty b-ball tickets.

I'm not happy, but I watched almost every home game during the Wooly era.  I mean, why stop now?

That's a very good point, but the scenarios are different. Under Wooly, we were awful with little to no hope for even an NCAA tournament. Tickets were cheap, expectations were low, and we were trying to show we could buy in and support basketball, given any glimmer of hope.

Now, we've tasted success, and in the previous 5 years achieved more than should be reasonably expected at Kansas State given the past 30 years of our history, and we threw it all away in like a week.

Frank was not the Second Coming of anything more exalted than Lon Kruger.

[CNS]

I don't believe that everything is good as long as we are profitable in college sports. That stance absolutely shits on the fans.  If that is the new stance, why shouldn't the fans treat it like a market product?

are you talking about being a bandwagon fan?

The AD should be concerned with winning above all else.  That is what keeps fans the happiest.  If that means Currie needs to learn how to deal with irrational yet successful coaches, then he needs to figure that out.  His comfort in his job shouldn't be anyone's concern.  I understand that the department has to be financially sound, but that is not the same thing as maximizing profit.  What I am saying is that if the AD is simply maximizing profit, they have ceased to put the fans first and if that is the case, why should the fans put the support of the uni first rather than treating them like any other biz?  It's a two way street.  Also, as discussed earlier in this thread, I can support w/o season tix.

Win or lose, make me feel like winning is priority #1 and I(and my season ticket money) am all yours, Currie.

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't view the Illinois athletic department is an entity one can place any real value on in light of their hiring and firing history. 

In terms of cross conference comparo's there's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary drivers for Self to ku, was the fact that he knew it would be a much easier path in the Big 12, and the record clearly shows that to be the case.

Skipper44 . . . I've already discussed the prima donna issue and Frank.    IMO Frank was at a prima donna level only worthy of coaches sporting a lot more hardware, banners and revenue than what Frank Martin was producing.

to summarize dax...

-the AD was justified in forcing frank out because he acted like a prima donna despite only being good and not great. (Frank wanted out the whole time, he just needed his cover story, and he got it)
-very few programs replace their exiting somewhat successful coach with a better coach. (Programs like K-State usually don't). 
-weber was the best we could do. (Pretty Much)

nobody needs a cover story if they want out dax, they just leave. good grief.

Than why bother with the B.S. back channel "I just can't work with this guy" story Daris?   

I'll tell you why, because Frank, like his former boss needed the empathetic/sympathetic exit . . . I don't want to go, but I just gotta, I don't have a choice. 

[Trim]

Weird that they were still taking phone calls about possible seat switches/cancellations yesterday when they had already mailed out the tickets.

[CHONGS]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

i've not read anyone post their excitement about the hire, but ok.

I've not read anyone saying the things you put into their mouth's either. 

But substitute exciting with whatever adjective or perhaps litotes you feel appropriate (good, inspiring of confidence, not underwhelming, not discouraging...).  Help me out here, you seem to know how true kstate fans should feel. 

[pissclams]

I don't believe that everything is good as long as we are profitable in college sports. That stance absolutely shits on the fans.  If that is the new stance, why shouldn't the fans treat it like a market product?

are you talking about being a bandwagon fan?

The AD should be concerned with winning above all else.  That is what keeps fans the happiest.  If that means Currie needs to learn how to deal with irrational yet successful coaches, then he needs to figure that out.  His comfort in his job shouldn't be anyone's concern.  I understand that the department has to be financially sound, but that is not the same thing as maximizing profit.  What I am saying is that if the AD is simply maximizing profit, they have ceased to put the fans first and if that is the case, why should the fans put the support of the uni first rather than treating them like any other biz?  It's a two way street.  Also, as discussed earlier in this thread, I can support w/o season tix.

Win or lose, make me feel like winning is priority #1 and I(and my season ticket money) am all yours, Currie.

but you're wrong, but that's ok.  there are a lot of balls in the athletic dept's air, that they need to juggle. 
success of its programs is a big one, but it certainly can't be the primary focus.  anyone could lead that athletic dept. and we all know the equation to get there.

as a sports fan, winning is your primary focus, no crap.

[Kat Kid]

Some people have outed themselves as unfit for getting goEMAW's fatty b-ball tickets.

I'm not happy, but I watched almost every home game during the Wooly era.  I mean, why stop now?

easy there, view from the parking lot.

fair point.  I was absolutely wrong about football.  I may well be wrong here too.  But it won't be by making the same mistake.

[pissclams]

No major conference school would hire a coach that had just been fired for performance either until K-State did. 

You have to think that Illinois is program on a much higher level than KSU if you think the oscar Weber hire is exciting.   Basically you must think KSU can't find a better coach than Illinois' garbage, a team that we have outperformed over the past 5 years.   Frank be-damned, it's about the tone set by the hire that we are a bottom feeder program that can only hire coaches that fail at "better" schools.

i've not read anyone post their excitement about the hire, but ok.

I've not read anyone saying the things you put into their mouth's either. 

But substitute exciting with whatever adjective or perhaps litotes you feel appropriate (good, inspiring of confidence, not underwhelming, not discouraging...).  Help me out here, you seem to know how true kstate fans should feel. 

sorry bud, never told anyone how to feel.  k, bud?  you're the one here making crap up.

[catzacker]

Great.  We’ve devolved into challenging each other k-statriotism.  They won.