"Obamacare"

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

TRASHING

Now you're getting it. Seriously though, if at any point you find something to the contrary, feel free to share. Or just go ahead and keep pretending that policies are not being cancelled due to ObamaCare mandates. Up to you.

What I'm getting is that I completely mistook you to be saying that there was something of significance about these cancellations.

For those keeping score at home, Chum now concedes that ObamaCare is causing cancellations, and has switched to "they're insignificant." Next up will be the latest libtard fallback "well, their old insurance obviously sucked."

The type of cancellations you're talking about have been the norm for a long time.  They've been caused by many other laws.  I thought you were saying there was somerhing uniquely disasterous about cancellations caused by Obamacare.  Were you not?

Sorry chum. Before I move on to your next stupid argument, you're going to have to admit you were wrong about ObamaCare not causing cancellations.

[chum1]

TRASHING

Now you're getting it. Seriously though, if at any point you find something to the contrary, feel free to share. Or just go ahead and keep pretending that policies are not being cancelled due to ObamaCare mandates. Up to you.

What I'm getting is that I completely mistook you to be saying that there was something of significance about these cancellations.

For those keeping score at home, Chum now concedes that ObamaCare is causing cancellations, and has switched to "they're insignificant." Next up will be the latest libtard fallback "well, their old insurance obviously sucked."

The type of cancellations you're talking about have been the norm for a long time.  They've been caused by many other laws.  I thought you were saying there was somerhing uniquely disasterous about cancellations caused by Obamacare.  Were you not?

Sorry chum. Before I move on to your next stupid argument, you're going to have to admit you were wrong about ObamaCare not causing cancellations.

You're using the word "cancellation" to be synonymous with "plan change." Everyone knew there would be plan changes, including me.  It's the law.  So, in your sense, yes, I did know there would be cancellations.  I just thought you were trying to say something that wasn't completely trivial.  My mistake.

[The Big Train]

 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

TRASHING

Now you're getting it. Seriously though, if at any point you find something to the contrary, feel free to share. Or just go ahead and keep pretending that policies are not being cancelled due to ObamaCare mandates. Up to you.

What I'm getting is that I completely mistook you to be saying that there was something of significance about these cancellations.

There is some significance in that the people were promised that they would be able to keep their plans if they liked them, they would be able to keep their doctor, and that the new plans would be less expensive.

I never took Obama to be saying both that their plans would change and and would not change.  But even if that's what he conveyed, is it really that significant?  Politicians do that all the time.

Well, I do think its significant because this was one of the cornerstone promises to the people he used to get that very, very slim win (using bribes as well) in the house and senate. And it isn't ambiguous at all. There is only one way to interpret what he says.

So let me begin by saying this: I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage - they like their plan and they value their relationship with their doctor. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/15/obama-ama-speech-full-tex_n_215699.html

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about over the last week or so, but here's the problem with obamacare:

It was sold as a plan that will provide insurance to everyone, to "fill the gap for those people who have fallen through the cracks", with the "rich footing the bill",

When in reality its consequences leave fewer people insured, and the people that were already doing what they were supposed to be doing, working a job or buying their own, footing the bill. Only a fool could think that the law was drafted without being aware of the consequences. 

And the person propogating the lie that is the former is hardly being held responsible for the latter.  Per usual, in libtard la la land, having an idea that is well intended is good enough, regardless of the extraordinary cost and suffering to the public.

[star seed 7]

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about over the last week or so, but here's the problem with obamacare:

It was sold as a plan that will provide insurance to everyone, to "fill the gap for those people who have fallen through the cracks", with the "rich footing the bill",

When in reality its consequences leave fewer people insured, and the people that were already doing what they were supposed to be doing, working a job or buying their own, footing the bill. Only a fool could think that the law was drafted without being aware of the consequences. 

And the person propogating the lie that is the former is hardly being held responsible for the latter.  Per usual, in libtard la la land, having an idea that is well intended is good enough, regardless of the extraordinary cost and suffering to the public.

^
butthurt

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

^
Butthurtier

[star seed 7]

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

TRASHING

Now you're getting it. Seriously though, if at any point you find something to the contrary, feel free to share. Or just go ahead and keep pretending that policies are not being cancelled due to ObamaCare mandates. Up to you.

What I'm getting is that I completely mistook you to be saying that there was something of significance about these cancellations.

For those keeping score at home, Chum now concedes that ObamaCare is causing cancellations, and has switched to "they're insignificant." Next up will be the latest libtard fallback "well, their old insurance obviously sucked."

The type of cancellations you're talking about have been the norm for a long time.  They've been caused by many other laws.  I thought you were saying there was somerhing uniquely disasterous about cancellations caused by Obamacare.  Were you not?

Sorry chum. Before I move on to your next stupid argument, you're going to have to admit you were wrong about ObamaCare not causing cancellations.

You're using the word "cancellation" to be synonymous with "plan change." Everyone knew there would be plan changes, including me.  It's the law.  So, in your sense, yes, I did know there would be cancellations.  I just thought you were trying to say something that wasn't completely trivial.  My mistake.

And you're using the words "plan change" to gloss over the fact that millions of plans are being cancelled - i.e. not renewed - due to ObamaCare mandates. The new plans will in many cases have higher deductibles, higher premiums, and/or different doctor networks, as many unfortunate recipients of these letters have discovered. Hence the importance of Obama's bullshit promise that "if you like your plan, you can keep it."

Thus, your sanguine response that these "plan changes" are "insignificant" is just as stupid as your previous claim that ObamaCare was not to blame. Trying to convince you otherwise is just an excercise in futility. It was fun for a while to point out how demonstrably wrong you are, but even that's getting boring.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do plans even have doctor networks anymore?

[chum1]

TRASHING

Now you're getting it. Seriously though, if at any point you find something to the contrary, feel free to share. Or just go ahead and keep pretending that policies are not being cancelled due to ObamaCare mandates. Up to you.

What I'm getting is that I completely mistook you to be saying that there was something of significance about these cancellations.

For those keeping score at home, Chum now concedes that ObamaCare is causing cancellations, and has switched to "they're insignificant." Next up will be the latest libtard fallback "well, their old insurance obviously sucked."

The type of cancellations you're talking about have been the norm for a long time.  They've been caused by many other laws.  I thought you were saying there was somerhing uniquely disasterous about cancellations caused by Obamacare.  Were you not?

Sorry chum. Before I move on to your next stupid argument, you're going to have to admit you were wrong about ObamaCare not causing cancellations.

You're using the word "cancellation" to be synonymous with "plan change." Everyone knew there would be plan changes, including me.  It's the law.  So, in your sense, yes, I did know there would be cancellations.  I just thought you were trying to say something that wasn't completely trivial.  My mistake.

And you're using the words "plan change" to gloss over the fact that millions of plans are being cancelled - i.e. not renewed - due to ObamaCare mandates. The new plans will in many cases have higher deductibles, higher premiums, and/or different doctor networks, as many unfortunate recipients of these letters have discovered. Hence the importance of Obama's bullshit promise that "if you like your plan, you can keep it."

Thus, your sanguine response that these "plan changes" are "insignificant" is just as stupid as your previous claim that ObamaCare was not to blame. Trying to convince you otherwise is just an excercise in futility. It was fun for a while to point out how demonstrably wrong you are, but even that's getting boring.

Everyone knew all along that there would be higher deductibles and premiums.  (I've even stated that previously in this thread.). So you saying that there are higher deductibles, higher premiums, and CANCELLED PLANS really doesn't add anything meaningful. 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Do plans even have doctor networks anymore?

Some have multiple networks and some just one, like Kaiser.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

And you're using the words "plan change" to gloss over the fact that millions of plans are being cancelled - i.e. not renewed - due to ObamaCare mandates. The new plans will in many cases have higher deductibles, higher premiums, and/or different doctor networks, as many unfortunate recipients of these letters have discovered. Hence the importance of Obama's bullshit promise that "if you like your plan, you can keep it."

Thus, your sanguine response that these "plan changes" are "insignificant" is just as stupid as your previous claim that ObamaCare was not to blame. Trying to convince you otherwise is just an exercise in futility. It was fun for a while to point out how demonstrably wrong you are, but even that's getting boring.

Everyone knew all along that there would be higher deductibles and premiums.

Obama: "I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

Pelosi: "And everybody will have lower rates...."

Redi: "For people that have health insurance today, they will have an immediate reduction on an average of their insurance premium by $1,600 per year."

Glad that you "knew" it though Chum. Does that make it "insignificant" to those getting hit by increases? Or, are you now changing arguments again? Let's see: First it wasn't true that Obamacare was causing cancellations, er "plan changes" (false), then these changes were "insignificant" (false), and now I'm not "adding anything meaningful." 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Obama: "I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

To be fair to Obama, this really isn't the plan he was endorsing when he was campaigning. He wanted single payer, iirc. This is Mitt Romney's plan.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Obama: "I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

To be fair to Obama, this really isn't the plan he was endorsing when he was campaigning. He wanted single payer, iirc. This is Mitt Romney's plan.

This claim did not pertain to a single-payer plan, which would have had no premium. The New York Times has the explanation of Obama's bullshit promise. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/us/23health.html?_r=3&

[kitten_mittons]

Just signed up for my health benefits for 2014.  I'm getting paid $1.84/month to have health insurance.  Lotta liars in this thread.

How did you afford all that Chipotle for a week?

My health insurance covered it.

[chum1]

And you're using the words "plan change" to gloss over the fact that millions of plans are being cancelled - i.e. not renewed - due to ObamaCare mandates. The new plans will in many cases have higher deductibles, higher premiums, and/or different doctor networks, as many unfortunate recipients of these letters have discovered. Hence the importance of Obama's bullshit promise that "if you like your plan, you can keep it."

Thus, your sanguine response that these "plan changes" are "insignificant" is just as stupid as your previous claim that ObamaCare was not to blame. Trying to convince you otherwise is just an exercise in futility. It was fun for a while to point out how demonstrably wrong you are, but even that's getting boring.

Everyone knew all along that there would be higher deductibles and premiums.

Obama: "I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

Pelosi: "And everybody will have lower rates...."

Redi: "For people that have health insurance today, they will have an immediate reduction on an average of their insurance premium by $1,600 per year."

Glad that you "knew" it though Chum. Does that make it "insignificant" to those getting hit by increases? Or, are you now changing arguments again? Let's see: First it wasn't true that Obamacare was causing cancellations, er "plan changes" (false), then these changes were "insignificant" (false), and now I'm not "adding anything meaningful." 

Congrats on your recent discovery about politicians.  They're slippery bastards.

[ednksu]

And you're using the words "plan change" to gloss over the fact that millions of plans are being cancelled - i.e. not renewed - due to ObamaCare mandates. The new plans will in many cases have higher deductibles, higher premiums, and/or different doctor networks, as many unfortunate recipients of these letters have discovered. Hence the importance of Obama's bullshit promise that "if you like your plan, you can keep it."

Thus, your sanguine response that these "plan changes" are "insignificant" is just as stupid as your previous claim that ObamaCare was not to blame. Trying to convince you otherwise is just an exercise in futility. It was fun for a while to point out how demonstrably wrong you are, but even that's getting boring.

Everyone knew all along that there would be higher deductibles and premiums.

Obama: "I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

Pelosi: "And everybody will have lower rates...."

Redi: "For people that have health insurance today, they will have an immediate reduction on an average of their insurance premium by $1,600 per year."

Glad that you "knew" it though Chum. Does that make it "insignificant" to those getting hit by increases? Or, are you now changing arguments again? Let's see: First it wasn't true that Obamacare was causing cancellations, er "plan changes" (false), then these changes were "insignificant" (false), and now I'm not "adding anything meaningful." 

for one, subsidies, how do they work?
two, you keep thinking that increased costs aren't an issue here. 

[sonofdaxjones]

You fellas need to think of the Obamacare Website like a typical government procurement scenario, particularly as it relates to IT, which is also very similar to military weapons system procurement.

Award the lowest bidder (still spending lots of money tho), have various subcontractors, roll out with many issues, lots of money to fix all the issues, once millions/billions are spent fixing, PR campaign lauding performance mile stones coupled with "all complex things have bumps in the road" talking points, sprinkle with "but everything is working great now" (say with emphasis/smiles/hand gestures). 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/24/obamacare_operator_fired_after_taking_call_from_hannity_hannity_to_give_her_a_years_salary.html

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/23/george_will_on_obamacare_when_they_fix_the_website_their_real_problems_will_begin.html

When they fix the website, their real problems will begin. They're going to look back on the last few weeks as the good old days. When people hack their way through the thicket of difficulties and get to the real choices that Obamacare offers, particularly the 2.7 million young people they're counting on to sign up and the young people say, 'this is awfully expensive for something I don't want,' and recoil, That is the difficulties today are actually keeping people from seeing the bad choice they're going to have to make once they get onto the site.

[star seed 7]

what a dick, getting a woman who makes $26k a year fired to further his agenda.  just a slimy cocksucker.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

what a dick, getting a woman who makes $26k a year fired to further his agenda.  just a slimy cocksucker.

This is how it works in the lib world. kill the messenger.

[star seed 7]

what a dick, getting a woman who makes $26k a year fired to further his agenda.  just a slimy cocksucker.

This is how it works in the lib world. kill the messenger.

you don't think he was absolutely giddy (and hopeful) that this would be the outcome?  don't be naive JD.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

what a dick, getting a woman who makes $26k a year fired to further his agenda.  just a slimy cocksucker.

This is how it works in the lib world. kill the messenger.

you don't think he was absolutely giddy (and hopeful) that this would be the outcome?  don't be naive JD.

No, I don't believe that. He got more than enough from the interview itself. And paying this woman a year's salary is a class act. Hardly "slimy." I'm not even a big Hannity fan, but this was very nice of him. He didn't trick her. He told her she was on the air, he didn't ask trick questions, she just spoke the truth, got fired for it, and now he's helping her out.