"Obamacare"

[sys]

I agree that you should be able to accept your health benefit as cash from your employer, however.

i know, right.  it's bullshit.

[chum1]

Prior to the exchanges, the cost of healthcare insurance was pretty obscure and complicated, difficult for people to figure out.  Now, it's much easier to have grasp of how much a health plan costs because there are so many quotes to compare readily available online.

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.

The difference I was referring to is that, before, you'd have to submit an online form with a bunch of personal information before getting a quote, often while being contacted by a salesperson.  Now, you can quickly and easily pull up a bunch of quotes, compare them, and get a rough idea about the going rate for policies. 

[chum1]

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.  If you think having fewer choices is less complicated you're a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

What do you mean by fewer choices?  There will be a major increase in the number of policyholders, yet a decrease in the number of policies?  How does that make sense?

[The Big Train]

Prior to the exchanges, the cost of healthcare insurance was pretty obscure and complicated, difficult for people to figure out.  Now, it's much easier to have grasp of how much a health plan costs because there are so many quotes to compare readily available online.

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.

The difference I was referring to is that, before, you'd have to submit an online form with a bunch of personal information before getting a quote, often while being contacted by a salesperson.  Now, you can quickly and easily pull up a bunch of quotes, compare them, and get a rough idea about the going rate for policies.

Actually it is as easy as an age and zip code, so...idk what you are talking about.

[chum1]

More confused insurers. Chum really needs to get on this. People are suffering.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

How do you get from this

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage

to this

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1

?

Can anyone fill in the gaps?  Didn't all policies fall short of what the ACA requires a couple years ago?  Why weren't cancellation letters sent out for all of them?  Why are these particular policies inherently incompatible with the ACA?

[The Big Train]

Prior to the exchanges, the cost of healthcare insurance was pretty obscure and complicated, difficult for people to figure out.  Now, it's much easier to have grasp of how much a health plan costs because there are so many quotes to compare readily available online.

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.

The difference I was referring to is that, before, you'd have to submit an online form with a bunch of personal information before getting a quote, often while being contacted by a salesperson.  Now, you can quickly and easily pull up a bunch of quotes, compare them, and get a rough idea about the going rate for policies.

Actually it is as easy as an age and zip code, so...idk what you are talking about.

Also, like the average person knows what they are buying

[The Big Train]

More confused insurers. Chum really needs to get on this. People are suffering.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

How do you get from this

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage

to this

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1

?

Can anyone fill in the gaps?  Didn't all policies fall short of what the ACA requires a couple years ago?  Why weren't cancellation letters sent out for all of them?  Why are these particular policies inherently incompatible with the ACA?

  Full blown HCR doesn't take effect until Jan 1 you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

[chum1]

More confused insurers. Chum really needs to get on this. People are suffering.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

How do you get from this

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage

to this

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1

?

Can anyone fill in the gaps?  Didn't all policies fall short of what the ACA requires a couple years ago?  Why weren't cancellation letters sent out for all of them?  Why are these particular policies inherently incompatible with the ACA?

  Full blown HCR doesn't take effect until Jan 1 you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Didn't almost all of the changes to existing plans take effect from 2010 to 2012?  In any case, I'll rephrase.  Don't all (non-grandfathered, etc.) policies fall short of what the ACA requires?  Why aren't cancellation letters being sent out for all of them?

[chum1]

Prior to the exchanges, the cost of healthcare insurance was pretty obscure and complicated, difficult for people to figure out.  Now, it's much easier to have grasp of how much a health plan costs because there are so many quotes to compare readily available online.

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.

The difference I was referring to is that, before, you'd have to submit an online form with a bunch of personal information before getting a quote, often while being contacted by a salesperson.  Now, you can quickly and easily pull up a bunch of quotes, compare them, and get a rough idea about the going rate for policies.

Actually it is as easy as an age and zip code, so...idk what you are talking about.

I'll just put it this way.  There are a shitload of quotes out there now with lots of different cost sharing options.  It's a lot more information from which to draw conclusions about costs.

[chum1]

Prior to the exchanges, the cost of healthcare insurance was pretty obscure and complicated, difficult for people to figure out.  Now, it's much easier to have grasp of how much a health plan costs because there are so many quotes to compare readily available online.

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.

The difference I was referring to is that, before, you'd have to submit an online form with a bunch of personal information before getting a quote, often while being contacted by a salesperson.  Now, you can quickly and easily pull up a bunch of quotes, compare them, and get a rough idea about the going rate for policies.

Actually it is as easy as an age and zip code, so...idk what you are talking about.

Also, like the average person knows what they are buying

True.  But they're pretty aware of how much it will cost them.

[The Big Train]

More confused insurers. Chum really needs to get on this. People are suffering.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

How do you get from this

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage

to this

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1

?

Can anyone fill in the gaps?  Didn't all policies fall short of what the ACA requires a couple years ago?  Why weren't cancellation letters sent out for all of them?  Why are these particular policies inherently incompatible with the ACA?

  Full blown HCR doesn't take effect until Jan 1 you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Didn't almost all of the changes to existing plans take effect from 2010 to 2012?  In any case, I'll rephrase.  Don't all (non-grandfathered, etc.) policies fall short of what the ACA requires?  Why aren't cancellation letters being sent out for all of them?

Yes there were gradual changes that happened during that period.  Some of the major ones were wellness visits, which in a simple form encourage people to get annual check-ups at no cost to them to avoid illness later, it saves both sides money.  As far as grandfathered plans, there have been some renewal strategies in place for certain companies, ex. renewing Dec 31, 2013 so clients can keep their plans through all of 2014.  Once that time comes tho, that policy will be cancelled or changed(depending on the company) to a new HCR compliant plan.  Meanwhile there are no guarantees on premiums for such plans, and if a person keeps them during this time, they will be subject to the penalty($95 or 1% of their income, whichever is higher).  Those that don't accept this renewal strategy for most companies will either be cancelled Jan 1, or in March/April sometime.  As of now, the only way to not pay the penalty is to either have a group plan or go with a plan on the exchange.

[The Big Train]

Prior to the exchanges, the cost of healthcare insurance was pretty obscure and complicated, difficult for people to figure out.  Now, it's much easier to have grasp of how much a health plan costs because there are so many quotes to compare readily available online.

Getting an insurance quote was not complicated before, and no more complicated that buying car insurance.

The difference I was referring to is that, before, you'd have to submit an online form with a bunch of personal information before getting a quote, often while being contacted by a salesperson.  Now, you can quickly and easily pull up a bunch of quotes, compare them, and get a rough idea about the going rate for policies.

Actually it is as easy as an age and zip code, so...idk what you are talking about.

Also, like the average person knows what they are buying

True.  But they're pretty aware of how much it will cost them.

For a monthly premium, yes.  What they don't understand is that extra $20-50 a month can mean hundreds of thousands of coverage in exchange. 

[chum1]

More confused insurers. Chum really needs to get on this. People are suffering.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

How do you get from this

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage

to this

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1

?

Can anyone fill in the gaps?  Didn't all policies fall short of what the ACA requires a couple years ago?  Why weren't cancellation letters sent out for all of them?  Why are these particular policies inherently incompatible with the ACA?

  Full blown HCR doesn't take effect until Jan 1 you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Didn't almost all of the changes to existing plans take effect from 2010 to 2012?  In any case, I'll rephrase.  Don't all (non-grandfathered, etc.) policies fall short of what the ACA requires?  Why aren't cancellation letters being sent out for all of them?

Yes there were gradual changes that happened during that period.  Some of the major ones were wellness visits, which in a simple form encourage people to get annual check-ups at no cost to them to avoid illness later, it saves both sides money.  As far as grandfathered plans, there have been some renewal strategies in place for certain companies, ex. renewing Dec 31, 2013 so clients can keep their plans through all of 2014.  Once that time comes tho, that policy will be cancelled or changed(depending on the company) to a new HCR compliant plan.  Meanwhile there are no guarantees on premiums for such plans, and if a person keeps them during this time, they will be subject to the penalty($95 or 1% of their income, whichever is higher).  Those that don't accept this renewal strategy for most companies will either be cancelled Jan 1, or in March/April sometime.  As of now, the only way to not pay the penalty is to either have a group plan or go with a plan on the exchange.

As always, there are many, many facets to all of this.  What I'm more interested in here, though, is the sense in which these people claim that they can't keep their old plans.  Because, like you say, in a broad sense, no one can.  But no one who claimed that people could keep their old plans meant that they could keep them in that sense.  They knew certain changes were coming.  So, in what meaningful sense can't these people keep their old plans?

[The Big Train]

More confused insurers. Chum really needs to get on this. People are suffering.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/October/21/cancellation-notices-health-insurance.aspx

How do you get from this

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage

to this

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1

?

Can anyone fill in the gaps?  Didn't all policies fall short of what the ACA requires a couple years ago?  Why weren't cancellation letters sent out for all of them?  Why are these particular policies inherently incompatible with the ACA?

  Full blown HCR doesn't take effect until Jan 1 you rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Didn't almost all of the changes to existing plans take effect from 2010 to 2012?  In any case, I'll rephrase.  Don't all (non-grandfathered, etc.) policies fall short of what the ACA requires?  Why aren't cancellation letters being sent out for all of them?

Yes there were gradual changes that happened during that period.  Some of the major ones were wellness visits, which in a simple form encourage people to get annual check-ups at no cost to them to avoid illness later, it saves both sides money.  As far as grandfathered plans, there have been some renewal strategies in place for certain companies, ex. renewing Dec 31, 2013 so clients can keep their plans through all of 2014.  Once that time comes tho, that policy will be cancelled or changed(depending on the company) to a new HCR compliant plan.  Meanwhile there are no guarantees on premiums for such plans, and if a person keeps them during this time, they will be subject to the penalty($95 or 1% of their income, whichever is higher).  Those that don't accept this renewal strategy for most companies will either be cancelled Jan 1, or in March/April sometime.  As of now, the only way to not pay the penalty is to either have a group plan or go with a plan on the exchange.

As always, there are many, many facets to all of this.  What I'm more interested in here, though, is the sense in which these people claim that they can't keep their old plans.  Because, like you say, in a broad sense, no one can.  But no one who claimed that people could keep their old plans meant that they could keep them in that sense.  They knew certain changes were coming.  So, in what meaningful sense can't these people keep their old plans?

The reason these people can't keep their current plans is because of the HCR mandates for major medical coverage.  The reason most major national and state carriers(BCBS(said state)) are canceling plans is because of the non-declinability mandated Jan 1, 2014 in the ACA.  Adding that risk to a for profit business is not a responsible way to run a business.  That is why most carriers are developing non-reform compliant plans to stay in the market.  Hopefully I sorta answered the question, I am very tired and will redo if need be in the morning.

[chum1]

If some plans get cancelled due to Obamacare and others don't, why is that?  Doesn't Obamacare apply to (almost) all plans?  For example, if we say that certain plans get cancelled due to non-declinability regulation, then why don't all plans to which this regulation applies get cancelled?  What's unique about the plans that are getting cancelled?

[ednksu]

Plans are getting cancelled because of maximum coverage amounts and excluded services.

Protip: You're plan that costs $300 a month to "cover" your family is shitty and you're a bad parent for even considering it adequate.

[chum1]

Plans are getting cancelled because of maximum coverage amounts and excluded services.

Protip: You're plan that costs $300 a month to "cover" your family is shitty and you're a bad parent for even considering it adequate.

Why do maximum coverage amounts and excluded services cause some plans to be cancelled but not others?

[chum1]

Also, health plans pretty much all cover the same crap.  The difference in rates is determined by what you pay up front vs. what you pay out of pocket should you need to. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Chum, just admit you were wrong and move on. Insurers are cancelling policies by the hundreds of thousands due to Obamacare. This isn't an opinion - it's straight from the insurance companies.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Oops, turns out that pricing calculator we were all using a few pages back may be way underestimating the cost of insurance on the exchanges. Big surprise. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57608843/healthcare.gov-pricing-feature-can-be-off-the-mark/

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

A fix is on the way, available at your local Circuit City or CompUSA. http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-improved-obamacare-program-released-on-35-flop,34294/?ref=auto

[chum1]

Chum, just admit you were wrong and move on. Insurers are cancelling policies by the hundreds of thousands due to Obamacare. This isn't an opinion - it's straight from the insurance companies.

My question is about how these policies could be cancelled due to Obamacare.  It doesn't make sense for the reasons I gave.  The articles you linked which cite that Kaiser story don't explain it, they just assert it.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Chum, just admit you were wrong and move on. Insurers are cancelling policies by the hundreds of thousands due to Obamacare. This isn't an opinion - it's straight from the insurance companies.

My question is about how these policies could be cancelled due to Obamacare.  It doesn't make sense for the reasons I gave.  The articles you linked which cite that Kaiser story don't explain it, they just assert it.

Ok, so you still think the insurance companies are wrong. Does anybody else agree with you? Can you cite to one industry professional, journalist, even a crack-pot blogger?

[chum1]

Chum, just admit you were wrong and move on. Insurers are cancelling policies by the hundreds of thousands due to Obamacare. This isn't an opinion - it's straight from the insurance companies.

My question is about how these policies could be cancelled due to Obamacare.  It doesn't make sense for the reasons I gave.  The articles you linked which cite that Kaiser story don't explain it, they just assert it.

Ok, so you still think the insurance companies are wrong. Does anybody else agree with you? Can you cite to one industry professional, journalist, even a crack-pot blogger?

Some agree, some disagree.  So, why don't we see if we can figure this out for ourelves rather than merely picking a side that we already agree with?  I asked a question.  As a next step, you could try to answer it.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

So if Kaiser has 300,000 policies out that don't meet the obamacare standard, and it doesn't make economic sense to increase the coverage for the current premium, shouldn't they withdraw the policy and let those 300,000 go through the exchanges? Seems much easier than trying to adjust everyone's premiums accordingly and dealing with customer sticker shock when they can deflect that problem to the government.