"Obamacare"

[Headinjun]

Bro of mine works for a company that has bitchin benefits.  They were just informed that they have to reduce the awesomeness of said benefits or they will get nailed by the "cadillac plan tax".  Never heard of this and if true 

Yeah, I think that starts up in a year or two. We're all going to have much shittier plans. Thankfully some groups have been exempted from the taxes, so only regular people are going to be paying extra for good healthcare.

Yes, many people who already had insurance will be get shittier insurance, and we'll all get shittier healthcare to an extent as a result of crowding another 15-30 million people into doctor's offices and further cutting reimbursement rates, but the purpose of the ACA was never to help the majority of Americans. The purpose of the ACA, like so many liberal-socialist programs, is to redistribute the wealth. "Social justice" and all that. And the Dems have now successfully purchased a large enough voting bloc that I only see it accelerating at this point.

Woof!!

The "eff others" mindset of the right.

KSU, did you know middle class people got screwed by the old insurance rules?

Rescission, pre-existing denials, canceling on children etc. Do you like these things?

Yeah, it's a real "eff others" mentality to want to keep what I've earned. But I don't expect that to make sense to those of a more liberal/socialist persuasion. Carry on.

Well if you're all about 'keeping what you've earned" don't you think you'd want some consumer protections for when you have an aneurism and you're left to the mercy of the for profit insurance board?

They would love to not pay for your care, and leave you and Mrs. KSU bankrupt and without your house.


Can't really understand the mindset that gets pissed off because people might go to the doctor.   

[ednksu]

The dialogue and policy crafting would work a lot better if the demotards would just accept that people prefer to keep their money.

How about we help the average American keep their money instead of letting the medical industrial complex rape every American they are sick?

Buy insurance before you get sick and this problem is averted.  Otherwise,enjoy your life living on SS disability because you made a disastrous personal decision.  Why do we continually have to absorb other people's terrible decisions?

And this is why we shouldn't let people like you have any input on healthcare.   

So what do I do when I have insurance but get sick, and I'm kicked off?

(Note: this would be illegal, get a good lawyer, you just won the lotto)

Or equally as bad, what happens if I work for a small company who has to dump me because my condition tanks the company policy?  What do I do now that I don't qualify for new insurance coverage because its a 'preexisting' condition and excluded?  Maybe my white blood cells should have just pulled up their bootstraps and fought off my cancer, or diabetes, or any kind of sports injury to a join, or anything you had in your childhood when you were on your parents insurance.

(Note: Most people might theoretically be better off getting their own health insurance rather than getting it through their employer, just like car insurance etc.)

So SS disability....what if I still want to/can work?

please look up life time limits on coverage and rescission

Also note that in no way does car insurance equate to medical insurance. Its a stupid comparison based on a rudimentary understanding of the insurance industry. And actually these exchanges, enforcements, and requirements make it more like car insurance for the better.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

News flash for the libtards: health insurance is like any other sort of insurance - there are coverage limits. Health insurance does not, and cannot, guarantee that it will pay for whatever treatment you want, for as long as you want, just as it cannot guarantee that you will live forever. Please don't pretend Obamacare will "fix" this.

Obamacare will simply bankrupt the private insurers, eventually foisting everyone into shitty single-payer coverage. How's that working out for the Canadians? How about the British? Last I checked, treatment is denied all the time in those systems, hospitals are overcrowded and filthy, and you've got to wait 6 months or more for routine surgeries. Yeah, that's a great solution.

But enough talk, Obamacare is finally here!!! Beginning tomorrow, millions of people with pre-existing conditions - i.e., sick people - will enroll for insurance, and many of these policies will be heavily subsidized by tax dollars, too. By contrast, millions of young, healthy people will do the math and realize they're much better off paying a paltry tax (they won't even directly fork it over, it'll just reduce their tax return a bit) than purchasing insurance (even if it is subsidized). Without these healthy young people "doing their public duty" by enrolling, insurance rates are going to go through the roof. The government will try to keep pace for a while with greater and greater subsidies (more tax dollars), but private insurance will ultimately crumble.

Gosh, a skeptic might say that the whole purpose of Obamacare was to drive a stake through the heart of private insurance once and for all...

[theKSU]

This is pretty cool. Now if I lose my Big Corporate™ job, I can still get affordable health insurance even though I have pre-existing conditions. I could even start a business and still be able to get health coverage, so I'm not tied to my Big Corporate™ job. I could go and be an entrepreneur and be a real job creator. Thanks Obama!

[Cire]

News flash for the libtards: health insurance is like any other sort of insurance - there are coverage limits. Health insurance does not, and cannot, guarantee that it will pay for whatever treatment you want, for as long as you want, just as it cannot guarantee that you will live forever. Please don't pretend Obamacare will "fix" this.

Obamacare will simply bankrupt the private insurers, eventually foisting everyone into shitty single-payer coverage. How's that working out for the Canadians? How about the British? Last I checked, treatment is denied all the time in those systems, hospitals are overcrowded and filthy, and you've got to wait 6 months or more for routine surgeries. Yeah, that's a great solution.

But enough talk, Obamacare is finally here!!! Beginning tomorrow, millions of people with pre-existing conditions - i.e., sick people - will enroll for insurance, and many of these policies will be heavily subsidized by tax dollars, too. By contrast, millions of young, healthy people will do the math and realize they're much better off paying a paltry tax (they won't even directly fork it over, it'll just reduce their tax return a bit) than purchasing insurance (even if it is subsidized). Without these healthy young people "doing their public duty" by enrolling, insurance rates are going to go through the roof. The government will try to keep pace for a while with greater and greater subsidies (more tax dollars), but private insurance will ultimately crumble.

Gosh, a skeptic might say that the whole purpose of Obamacare was to drive a stake through the heart of private insurance once and for all...

that might be the most butthurt thing I've read in a month

[Tobias]

that might be the most butthurt thing I've read in a month

do u even breaking bad thread bro?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Oops, I forgot we were bbs'ing about the phony healthcare crisis contrived by the obamabot libtards, not actual health insurance as it existed per obamacare.

What is the solution to "the man" abandoning its insured sick and leaving them to die, poor and alone?  Give the man more power and institute a costly regulatory regime that appropriately rations healthcare to keep costs down (although premiums actually skyrocket).  But a bunch of people without money can head to the local exchange and buy insurance for $400 a month.  I'm sure they'll do that when they are already going to the emergency room for free, so probs solved.

 At least after everyone's acknowledged that this law is a complete clusterfuck it can be used as the whipping boy/martyr for govt. shut down.

[Dugout DickStone]

News flash for the libtards: health insurance is like any other sort of insurance - there are coverage limits. Health insurance does not, and cannot, guarantee that it will pay for whatever treatment you want, for as long as you want, just as it cannot guarantee that you will live forever. Please don't pretend Obamacare will "fix" this.

Obamacare will simply bankrupt the private insurers, eventually foisting everyone into shitty single-payer coverage. How's that working out for the Canadians? How about the British? Last I checked, treatment is denied all the time in those systems, hospitals are overcrowded and filthy, and you've got to wait 6 months or more for routine surgeries. Yeah, that's a great solution.

But enough talk, Obamacare is finally here!!! Beginning tomorrow, millions of people with pre-existing conditions - i.e., sick people - will enroll for insurance, and many of these policies will be heavily subsidized by tax dollars, too. By contrast, millions of young, healthy people will do the math and realize they're much better off paying a paltry tax (they won't even directly fork it over, it'll just reduce their tax return a bit) than purchasing insurance (even if it is subsidized). Without these healthy young people "doing their public duty" by enrolling, insurance rates are going to go through the roof. The government will try to keep pace for a while with greater and greater subsidies (more tax dollars), but private insurance will ultimately crumble.

Gosh, a skeptic might say that the whole purpose of Obamacare was to drive a stake through the heart of private insurance once and for all...

Yeah, those poor insurance companies.  Just limping along.  Probably go bankrupt any day now.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

News flash for the libtards: health insurance is like any other sort of insurance - there are coverage limits. Health insurance does not, and cannot, guarantee that it will pay for whatever treatment you want, for as long as you want, just as it cannot guarantee that you will live forever. Please don't pretend Obamacare will "fix" this.

Obamacare will simply bankrupt the private insurers, eventually foisting everyone into shitty single-payer coverage. How's that working out for the Canadians? How about the British? Last I checked, treatment is denied all the time in those systems, hospitals are overcrowded and filthy, and you've got to wait 6 months or more for routine surgeries. Yeah, that's a great solution.

But enough talk, Obamacare is finally here!!! Beginning tomorrow, millions of people with pre-existing conditions - i.e., sick people - will enroll for insurance, and many of these policies will be heavily subsidized by tax dollars, too. By contrast, millions of young, healthy people will do the math and realize they're much better off paying a paltry tax (they won't even directly fork it over, it'll just reduce their tax return a bit) than purchasing insurance (even if it is subsidized). Without these healthy young people "doing their public duty" by enrolling, insurance rates are going to go through the roof. The government will try to keep pace for a while with greater and greater subsidies (more tax dollars), but private insurance will ultimately crumble.

Gosh, a skeptic might say that the whole purpose of Obamacare was to drive a stake through the heart of private insurance once and for all...

Yeah, those poor insurance companies.  Just limping along.  Probably go bankrupt any day now.

Even liberals seem to agree, if the young and healthy don't sign up up for insurance, the whole system collapses. Premiums would have to skyrocket to cover all the sick people who now will sign up and cannot be turned away.

For example: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/05/1228977/--I-m-very-lucky-I-m-about-to-pay-8665-a-year-for-crappy-high-deductible-insurance-in-NYS#

The biggest and most critical hurdle is to sell the young 18-34 year old cohort on the need for them to enroll. Without this group of Americans, which the Administration estimates is around 2.7 million strong, the exchanges will implode due to a phenomenon called adverse selection.

Despite my grave reservations and deep concern about the implementation of Obamacare, I would urge anyone who can lend a hand, to go to the web site of Enroll America and do whatever you can, to help get young people happily enrolled.  Without their participation, We. Are. Toast.

There is a reason why, of the 10 insurance companies in Kansas that used to sell individual policies, 8 of them have decided to get out of that market rather than participate in these ridiculous exchanges. They understand that the math just doesn't add up. The sick will sign up - the young and healthy will not. Insurance can't work that way. This is known as "the death spiral." Interestingly, BCBS is one of the two that decided to stay in. If I owned stock in that company, I'd be selling pronto.

[8manpick]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

[Rage Against the McKee]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

Probably not until the baby boomers are dead.

[Dugout DickStone]

News flash for the libtards: health insurance is like any other sort of insurance - there are coverage limits. Health insurance does not, and cannot, guarantee that it will pay for whatever treatment you want, for as long as you want, just as it cannot guarantee that you will live forever. Please don't pretend Obamacare will "fix" this.

Obamacare will simply bankrupt the private insurers, eventually foisting everyone into shitty single-payer coverage. How's that working out for the Canadians? How about the British? Last I checked, treatment is denied all the time in those systems, hospitals are overcrowded and filthy, and you've got to wait 6 months or more for routine surgeries. Yeah, that's a great solution.

But enough talk, Obamacare is finally here!!! Beginning tomorrow, millions of people with pre-existing conditions - i.e., sick people - will enroll for insurance, and many of these policies will be heavily subsidized by tax dollars, too. By contrast, millions of young, healthy people will do the math and realize they're much better off paying a paltry tax (they won't even directly fork it over, it'll just reduce their tax return a bit) than purchasing insurance (even if it is subsidized). Without these healthy young people "doing their public duty" by enrolling, insurance rates are going to go through the roof. The government will try to keep pace for a while with greater and greater subsidies (more tax dollars), but private insurance will ultimately crumble.

Gosh, a skeptic might say that the whole purpose of Obamacare was to drive a stake through the heart of private insurance once and for all...

Yeah, those poor insurance companies.  Just limping along.  Probably go bankrupt any day now.

Even liberals seem to agree, if the young and healthy don't sign up up for insurance, the whole system collapses. Premiums would have to skyrocket to cover all the sick people who now will sign up and cannot be turned away.

For example: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/05/1228977/--I-m-very-lucky-I-m-about-to-pay-8665-a-year-for-crappy-high-deductible-insurance-in-NYS#

The biggest and most critical hurdle is to sell the young 18-34 year old cohort on the need for them to enroll. Without this group of Americans, which the Administration estimates is around 2.7 million strong, the exchanges will implode due to a phenomenon called adverse selection.

Despite my grave reservations and deep concern about the implementation of Obamacare, I would urge anyone who can lend a hand, to go to the web site of Enroll America and do whatever you can, to help get young people happily enrolled.  Without their participation, We. Are. Toast.

There is a reason why, of the 10 insurance companies in Kansas that used to sell individual policies, 8 of them have decided to get out of that market rather than participate in these ridiculous exchanges. They understand that the math just doesn't add up. The sick will sign up - the young and healthy will not. Insurance can't work that way. This is known as "the death spiral." Interestingly, BCBS is one of the two that decided to stay in. If I owned stock in that company, I'd be selling pronto.

I am going to short the hell out of BCBS.  How long until they file for reorg?  I am assuming the death spiral will have killed them by Christmas.  Maybe sooner?

[Rage Against the McKee]

How will BCBS ever survive with 80% of their competition leaving the market?

[Dugout DickStone]

How will BCBS ever survive with 80% of their competition leaving the market?

I am counting on them folding soon.  The "death spiral" as it is known is a fast acting reaper of fate.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

We already have it.

[OregonSmock]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

We already have it.

Tell that to the 30+ million people who don't have health insurance.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How will BCBS ever survive with 80% of their competition leaving the market?

I'm trying to think of a way to explain this so even you can understand. Did you ever see that episode of The Office where Michael starts his own paper company, and the accountant eventually explains to him that the more paper he sells, the more money he loses? So yeah, congrats to BCBS on cornering the market on adding sick people to its books.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

We already have it.

Tell that to the 30+ million people who don't have health insurance.

The question was "universal healthcare" - not "health insurance" - but you also have some difficulty distinguishing between "debt" and "deficit" so I guess your confusion is understandable.

[Dugout DickStone]

How will BCBS ever survive with 80% of their competition leaving the market?

I'm trying to think of a way to explain this so even you can understand. Did you ever see that episode of The Office where Michael starts his own paper company, and the accountant eventually explains to him that the more paper he sells, the more money he loses? So yeah, congrats to BCBS on cornering the market on adding sick people to its books.

This is known as the "death spiral" for you noobs. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

How will BCBS ever survive with 80% of their competition leaving the market?

I'm trying to think of a way to explain this so even you can understand. Did you ever see that episode of The Office where Michael starts his own paper company, and the accountant eventually explains to him that the more paper he sells, the more money he loses? So yeah, congrats to BCBS on cornering the market on adding sick people to its books.

This is known as the "death spiral" for you noobs.

Thanks Limestone for your help. And everyone can read more about it here: http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/experts-fear-obamacare-rate-spiral/

[Institutional Control]

All the insurance companies are not going to collapse.  They helped to write AFA.

But if they do, it will be just that much easier to move to a single payer system.

[OregonSmock]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

We already have it.

Tell that to the 30+ million people who don't have health insurance.

The question was "universal healthcare" - not "health insurance" - but you also have some difficulty distinguishing between "debt" and "deficit" so I guess your confusion is understandable.

Healthcare and health insurance are not mutually exclusive.  Your second statement is simply false.  I have pointed out the difference between debt and deficit multiple times.  You and the rest of the right wing herd just refuse to accept that the budget deficit has been cut in half since President Obama's been in office. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Guys, obamacare is all about the man sticking it to the man, and together sticking it to the middle class.  Its a giant gay rape orgy. 

If OregonHawk wasn't  so Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) this thread would be unbearable.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

So how long until we join the rest of the civilized world and get universal healthcare?

We already have it.

Tell that to the 30+ million people who don't have health insurance.

The question was "universal healthcare" - not "health insurance" - but you also have some difficulty distinguishing between "debt" and "deficit" so I guess your confusion is understandable.

Healthcare and health insurance are not mutually exclusive.  Your second statement is simply false.  I have pointed out the difference between debt and deficit multiple times.  You and the rest of the right wing herd just refuse to accept that the budget deficit has been cut in half since President Obama's been in office.

Even if the current budget deficit is half what his first budget was, it would still be the largest budget deficit in history previous to 2009. Quite an accomplishment. Que "he inherited a mess".

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

This talking point about Obama cutting the deficit in half, if I'm understanding it right, is about as stupid as someone who filed for chapter 13 bragging about cutting their car payment in half.

Also, per Obama, its the republicans job to pass a budget so why don't they get credit for this incredible achievement.