"Obamacare"

[OregonSmock]

Millions of people will have access to healthcare who otherwise might not have been able to afford it, and millions of those people will be able to live healthy, productive lives because of it.  The butthurt crew is just going to have to learn to accept it.

You be the judge if this is affordable.

http://www.healthedeals.com/health-care-reform-calculator

Looks affordable to me, especially if I had a pre-existing condition and would have been denied coverage under the previous system.  You do realize you're supposed to divide the forecast rate by 12 to get the monthly premium amount, right?  California, Oregon, Nevada, Connecticut, Maryland, and New York are actually foreseeing lower premiums due to the new law.  The addition of healthy individuals into the insurance pool is lowering the risk for insurance companies and thus lowering premiums.  The open market exchange system is going to drive costs down as well.


http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/obamacare-premiums-are-lower-expected

[OregonSmock]

I think it will push most single people between 20 and 40 out of the insurance market and just pay the penalty. Now that there are no pre-existing conditions, you can just sign up when you need it.

Except individuals 20-26 will be under their parents' health plans, so they won't need to opt out.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I think it will push most single people between 20 and 40 out of the insurance market and just pay the penalty. Now that there are no pre-existing conditions, you can just sign up when you need it.

Except individuals 20-26 will be under their parents' health plans, so they won't need to opt out.

Unless they kick your lazy ass off when you turn 18. Prices are at least doubling for your young healthy people trying to get ahead. They'll just pay the fine.

[OregonSmock]

I think it will push most single people between 20 and 40 out of the insurance market and just pay the penalty. Now that there are no pre-existing conditions, you can just sign up when you need it.

Except individuals 20-26 will be under their parents' health plans, so they won't need to opt out.

Unless they kick your lazy ass off when you turn 18. Prices are at least doubling for your young healthy people trying to get ahead. They'll just pay the fine.

That sounds unfortunate for anyone whose parents do that to them. 

[michigancat]

I think it will push most single people between 20 and 40 out of the insurance market and just pay the penalty. Now that there are no pre-existing conditions, you can just sign up when you need it.

Except individuals 20-26 will be under their parents' health plans, so they won't need to opt out.

Unless they kick your lazy ass off when you turn 18. Prices are at least doubling for your young healthy people trying to get ahead. They'll just pay the fine.

they can still be covered even if they don't live w/ their parents.

https://www.healthcare.gov/can-i-keep-my-child-on-my-insurance-until-age-26/

While I don't think its will push anyone out of the insurance market, I agree that not nearly enough young people will enroll to make this work.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I think it will push most single people between 20 and 40 out of the insurance market and just pay the penalty. Now that there are no pre-existing conditions, you can just sign up when you need it.

Except individuals 20-26 will be under their parents' health plans, so they won't need to opt out.

Unless they kick your lazy ass off when you turn 18. Prices are at least doubling for your young healthy people trying to get ahead. They'll just pay the fine.

they can still be covered even if they don't live w/ their parents.

https://www.healthcare.gov/can-i-keep-my-child-on-my-insurance-until-age-26/

While I don't think its will push anyone out of the insurance market, I agree that not nearly enough young people will enroll to make this work.

Once you reach 21, it looks like the cheapest plan is $200 per month. Right now there are plans for around $100. If you are making $30k, your penalty is $300, but your insurance went up $1200. It might push some out.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The fact that you are speculating as to how many people will many people will make a calculated financial decision NOT to buy health insurance is demonstrative of how terrible and irrational this legislation is.

Beyond that, the notion that millions of people didn't have "access" to healthcare, and now will, is one of the most disingenuous talking points of all time.

[OregonSmock]

The fact that you want to repeal a law that would give affordable health care access to millions of Americans is why you and your party are an absolute joke right now.  The next presidential election won't even be close.

[kim carnes]

The fact that you want to repeal a law that would give affordable health care access to millions of Americans is why you and your party are an absolute joke right now.  The next presidential election won't even be close.

You're an absolute joke right now.   Boom goes the dynamite.

[OregonSmock]

Sure thing, Kimberly.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The fact that you want to repeal a law that would give affordable health care access to millions of Americans is why you and your party are an absolute joke right now.  The next presidential election won't even be close.

Oooooooooohhhhh. 


 They all had access healthcare you dolt.  Now they're just supposed to buy insurance for way more than it used to cost or face a deminimis fine (read get a smaller income tax refund).  The law has actually made healthcare worse for everyone, which is probably why Americans are actually opposed to it by about 2:1.

[OregonSmock]

The fact that you want to repeal a law that would give affordable health care access to millions of Americans is why you and your party are an absolute joke right now.  The next presidential election won't even be close.

Oooooooooohhhhh. 


They all had access healthcare you dolt.  Now they're just supposed to buy insurance for way more than it used to cost or face a deminimis fine (read get a smaller income tax refund).  The law has actually made healthcare worse for everyone, which is probably why Americans are actually opposed to it by about 2:1.

wut


 


This is why it's impossible to argue with an idiot.  They drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.  This moron can't even formulate a grammatically correct sentence, and yet, he sits behind his keyboard and pretends like he knows what he's talking about in regards to Obamacare. 

What I said, FSD, is that millions of Americans now have access to affordable healthcare.  Before Obamacare, people with pre-existing conditions had to pay healthcare costs out the ass, because they couldn't get health insurance.  Now, up to 32 million people will be able to buy health insurance, and therefore have access to affordable healthcare.  Yes, insurance premiums will likely increase for young people (especially those in states where they don't want Obamacare to work).  That doesn't change the reality that before the new law, millions of people were unable to afford healthcare.  Up to 26,000 Americans a year die prematurely due to not having health insurance. 

I'm sure you're also aware that taxpayers currently pay for up to $60 billion a year in un-reimbursed medical care.  If you have an alternative to kicking people with pre-existing conditions off of insurance, continuing to pay billions in charity care, kicking college students off of their parents insurance, and not covering up to 40 million Americans, I'd love to hear it. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

DNR: past "wut"

I can't help that you don't understand the difference between "access to healthcare" and "own health insurance" anymore than I can help Obama understand the difference between "income"and "wealth".  You're both insufferable tools, and I can't help that either.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The fact that you want to repeal a law that would give affordable health care access to millions of Americans is why you and your party are an absolute joke right now.  The next presidential election won't even be close.

Oooooooooohhhhh. 


They all had access healthcare you dolt.  Now they're just supposed to buy insurance for way more than it used to cost or face a deminimis fine (read get a smaller income tax refund).  The law has actually made healthcare worse for everyone, which is probably why Americans are actually opposed to it by about 2:1.

wut


 


This is why it's impossible to argue with an idiot.  They drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.  This moron can't even formulate a grammatically correct sentence, and yet, he sits behind his keyboard and pretends like he knows what he's talking about in regards to Obamacare. 

What I said, FSD, is that millions of Americans now have access to affordable healthcare.  Before Obamacare, people with pre-existing conditions had to pay healthcare costs out the ass, because they couldn't get health insurance.  Now, up to 32 million people will be able to buy health insurance, and therefore have access to affordable healthcare.  Yes, insurance premiums will likely increase for young people (especially those in states where they don't want Obamacare to work).  That doesn't change the reality that before the new law, millions of people were unable to afford healthcare.  Up to 26,000 Americans a year die prematurely due to not having health insurance. 

I'm sure you're also aware that taxpayers currently pay for up to $60 billion a year in un-reimbursed medical care.  If you have an alternative to kicking people with pre-existing conditions off of insurance, continuing to pay billions in charity care, kicking college students off of their parents insurance, and not covering up to 40 million Americans, I'd love to hear it.

What is the CBOs latest 10 year estimate for the cost of Obamacare? $1.4 trillion to insure 13 million more people.

[kim carnes]

ladies and gentleman, welcome to the ¡toolbox!

[Stupid Fitz]

Love the talking points about affordability.  Also love how they say the premiums are going to be lower in places where they have jacked up their healthcare so bad previously that they currently pay way more than they should.  But this will reduce premiums just below the point of ridiculous!!!!  Thanks Obama

My only other question is that if the coverage for people with pre existing conditions is what the libs hold on to so dearly (I think it is a fine idea), why not just make a law that says you can't deny coverage to those people anymore and not have the rest of this disaster in place?

[p1k3]

maybe they should have fixed the big pharma monopoly instead of passing some garbage that will increase premiums on young people. Oh well, monopoly on.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

My only other question is that if the coverage for people with pre existing conditions is what the libs hold on to so dearly (I think it is a fine idea), why not just make a law that says you can't deny coverage to those people anymore and not have the rest of this disaster in place?

Because then nobody would buy insurance until they needed it, and price of insurance would therefore skyrocket. I believe NY already had some form of "guaranteed issue" at least to an extent, and their dates are the highest in the country. You can't call up the insurance company after you've wrecked your car and say "I'd like some insurance please!" That's not how insurance works.

But ObamaCare was never about getting more people truly "insured," or reducing premiums. It was just another massive handout, this time to people with income up to 400% of the poverty line. Remember, we already had Medicaid - this was essentially just a massive expansion of Medicaid. And it is what Democrats do: they spend tax dollars to buy votes and perpetuate their power. They are parasites.

[p1k3]

And it is what Democrats do: they spend tax dollars to buy votes and perpetuate their power. They are parasites.

all the while making the middle class poorer

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

maybe they should have fixed the big pharma monopoly instead of passing some garbage that will increase premiums on young people. Oh well, monopoly on.

I think it's terribly unfair to hose all young people. This should only apply to the 75% or so that voted for Hope and Change in 2008, and then just Hope in 2012. Sadly, that's not how Democracy works.

[Rage Against the McKee]

My only other question is that if the coverage for people with pre existing conditions is what the libs hold on to so dearly (I think it is a fine idea), why not just make a law that says you can't deny coverage to those people anymore and not have the rest of this disaster in place?

Because then nobody would buy insurance until they needed it, and price of insurance would therefore skyrocket. I believe NY already had some form of "guaranteed issue" at least to an extent, and their dates are the highest in the country. You can't call up the insurance company after you've wrecked your car and say "I'd like some insurance please!" That's not how insurance works.

But ObamaCare was never about getting more people truly "insured," or reducing premiums. It was just another massive handout, this time to people with income up to 400% of the poverty line. Remember, we already had Medicaid - this was essentially just a massive expansion of Medicaid. And it is what Democrats do: they spend tax dollars to buy votes and perpetuate their power. They are parasites.

Yeah. Basically I would like a law that says you can't be denied insurance because of a preexisting condition that was diagnosed before the age of 30. People younger than 30 should have a way to treat life-threatening ailments, period. People over the age of 30 should know better than to go without insurance, unless they are fine with the reality that they are going to have to pay through the teeth for medical care.

Our health care system is a disaster, and it is good to see that the problem is at least being acknowledged. I don't think Obamacare goes far enough to actually address any of the root causes of our problems, though. It only addresses the symptoms.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Yeah. Basically I would like a law that says you can't be denied insurance because of a preexisting condition that was diagnosed before the age of 30. People younger than 30 should have a way to treat life-threatening ailments, period. People over the age of 30 should know better than to go without insurance, unless they are fine with the reality that they are going to have to pay through the teeth for medical care.

Our health care system is a disaster, and it is good to see that the problem is at least being acknowledged. I don't think Obamacare goes far enough to actually address any of the root causes of our problems, though. It only addresses the symptoms.

I agree. Obamacare must be dismantled, and we generally need to return to a free market system that treats health insurance as actual insurance in order to make it more affordable, but something should be done for the current uninsured with preexisting conditions, particularly young people through no fault of their own. My bar napkin plan:

1. Repeal Obamacare.
2. Permit the purchase of health insurance from anywhere you want, which would effectively nullify the ridiculous minimum coverage mandates of certain states and promote a free market in shopping for insurance products that people actually want and can afford.
3. Dramatically curtail medical malpractice liability, particularly for medicaid and other "free" healthcare situations, which will reduce "defensive medicine" and the associated costs.
4. Encourage growth of HDHCP/HSAs with greater tax incentives.
5. Subsidize temporary high risk pools, phasing out eligibility over the next 4-5 years, for those with preexisting conditions. I'm betting we could subsidize these pools for a mere fraction of what it would cost to fund this current turd of a law.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

More like the UNaffordable healthcare act.  ROFL

Basically a bailout for people who chose not to buy health insurance then got sick.  Great.  What's next, property insurance for people who let their house burn down and then wish they had insurance?  How about mandatory free oil changes as a part of every auto insurance policy, ya know, its preventative.

LOLZ

[ednksu]

jfc this is the biggest collection of one track mindset mouth breathers on the internet outside the hannity forum. Beems is constantly clownsuiting you people with actual facts about how this law works and you only combat him with insular thought talking points which leave out 90% of the facts to construct a world where Obamacare can only fail.  People are missing everything from costs, to availability, to access in this 'discussion' because they are only reciting talking points instead of actually understanding how this set of laws work.  But why should any of you care about what is actually going to happen when you have talking points to consume like a fat person at Mcdonalds.  I'll await the next set of posts which in one breath demand things original Obamacare wanted which were decried as socialism and in another bitch about any attempt to fix this pos healthcare system with bullshit talking points about the 'free market'. y

[chum1]

There are no "actual facts" in this thread.