Author Topic: "Obamacare"  (Read 313800 times)

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Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3325 on: December 15, 2018, 09:25:09 AM »
RIP the ACA.

We'll miss your higher premiums for shittier insurance.
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Offline Cire

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3326 on: December 15, 2018, 02:52:53 PM »
Man dems are going to tear pubs a new bad person in 2020


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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3327 on: December 15, 2018, 03:25:34 PM »
Haven't had time to read the opinion yet, but how can a District Court judge make this ruling when SCOTUS has already said it's constitutional?

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3328 on: December 15, 2018, 03:34:09 PM »
Congress set the penalty to $0 so the judge decided that meant there is no tax and the mandate is unconstitutional. Something like that. It won't hold up.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3329 on: December 15, 2018, 05:06:34 PM »
Haven't had time to read the opinion yet, but how can a District Court judge make this ruling when SCOTUS has already said it's constitutional?

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The penalty for not buying insurance is gone, so it's no longer constitutional as a tax. SCOTUS already found it would be unconstitutional under the commerce clause. It's toast. Hundred plus million people win.
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Offline catastrophe

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3330 on: December 15, 2018, 09:07:04 PM »
That’s just begging the question. The issue is whether no individual mandate (which Republicans ditched a few months ago) means the ACA as a whole cannot stand. Judge O’Connor apparently thought so. I haven’t read the opinion but I don’t really understand how no individual mandate means no ACA. I mean it’s a terrible law without the mandate but I think it could still function.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3331 on: December 17, 2018, 11:59:21 AM »
After arguing for years (decades?) that the ACA can't function without the individual mandate, I think it would be hard to argue it doesn't render the law functional without it.

That's notwithstanding that the constitutionality of the mandate hindered on it being a "tax". Pretty sure a %0 penalty isn't a tax.  The dems will be forced to lie in the bed of fiction it created.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3332 on: December 17, 2018, 12:02:46 PM »
So, it's a severability issue. With Kennedy gone, and Gorsuch and Kavdawg on the bench, the question is what will Roberts do? I could easily see SCOTUS affirming this. Or if the Democrats accept Trump's offer to work on a replacement, it could well be moot by then.

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Offline catastrophe

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3333 on: December 17, 2018, 12:24:12 PM »
Someone would have to convincingly explain how something like Medicaid expansion hinged on the individual mandate.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3334 on: December 17, 2018, 12:26:14 PM »
How about we just toss it in the trash and do a single payer that the vast majority of people want.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3335 on: December 17, 2018, 12:30:57 PM »
If DJT squeaks into a second term, that’s exactly where this is all heading in 2025 or so.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3336 on: December 17, 2018, 01:00:47 PM »
If DJT squeaks into a second term, that’s exactly where this is all heading in 2025 or so.

I think it will head that direction if DJT is voted out, too.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3337 on: December 17, 2018, 01:06:20 PM »
There are no positive outcomes for Republicans with this subject. Go ahead and use judicial activism to get rid of insurance for millions of people and get rid of pre existing condition protections. Winning political strategy  :lol:
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3338 on: December 17, 2018, 01:11:49 PM »
There are no positive outcomes for Republicans with this subject. Go ahead and use judicial activism to get rid of insurance for millions of people and get rid of pre existing condition protections. Winning political strategy  :lol:

Trump could work with the democrats to establish single payer over the next 2 years and possibly save the republicans. I'm sure the senate republicans would fall in line if Donald told them to.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3339 on: December 17, 2018, 01:14:08 PM »
If DJT squeaks into a second term, that’s exactly where this is all heading in 2025 or so.

I think it will head that direction if DJT is voted out, too.

Eventually yes, but it would probably take longer.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3340 on: December 17, 2018, 01:23:36 PM »
Someone would have to convincingly explain how something like Medicaid expansion hinged on the individual mandate.

Medicaid expansion was/is at the option of the states, and multiple states did not expand.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3341 on: December 17, 2018, 01:28:30 PM »
While many people like the idea of single payer, almost nobody wants to be on Medicaid. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of olds (65+) who advocate for single payer but who wouldn't be caught dead at a Medicaid provider.
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Offline wetwillie

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3342 on: December 17, 2018, 01:33:46 PM »
While many people like the idea of single payer, almost nobody wants to be on Medicaid. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of olds (65+) who advocate for single payer but who wouldn't be caught dead at a Medicaid provider.

Everyone ITT wants single payer and is younger than you
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Offline catastrophe

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3343 on: December 17, 2018, 01:51:20 PM »
While many people like the idea of single payer, almost nobody wants to be on Medicaid. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of olds (65+) who advocate for single payer but who wouldn't be caught dead at a Medicaid provider.

Are those olds on Medicare or self insured?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3344 on: December 17, 2018, 02:25:32 PM »
While many people like the idea of single payer, almost nobody wants to be on Medicaid. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of olds (65+) who advocate for single payer but who wouldn't be caught dead at a Medicaid provider.

No one is proposing Medicaid for all.

Offline sys

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3345 on: December 17, 2018, 02:26:28 PM »
if obamacare is constitutional with the mandate, but unconstitutional without the mandate.  and the mandate was revoked more recently than obamacare was put into place, why is the judicial remedy not to overturn the revocation?
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3346 on: December 17, 2018, 02:58:13 PM »
A Court cannot reach an act of Congress unless it is unconstitutional. Removing the penalty was not an unconstitutional act, though it had the (alleged) effect of making the ACA unconstitutional. It's kinda weird to wrap your head around, but I guess you could say that Congress acted with the intent that the ACA be unconstitutional? Kind of a procedural end-run around actually, fully repealing it in Congress. Impressive feat, if true. Courts generally defer to the most recent actions from the Legislative Branch when construing legislative intent. So, if a later amendment contradicts the intent of the Congress that passed the underlying act, courts assume that the later Congress did so intentionally and will not disturb the later act unless it be unconstitutional. It's a separation of powers thing.

That said, I don't think the result reached in this case is necessarily compelled, and a Judge in a different part of the country may well have reached a different conclusion.

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Offline sys

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3347 on: December 17, 2018, 03:04:56 PM »
pretty much everyone seems to be saying it will be overturned, but it's good to know why it happened at all.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3348 on: December 17, 2018, 03:27:19 PM »
While many people like the idea of single payer, almost nobody wants to be on Medicaid. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of olds (65+) who advocate for single payer but who wouldn't be caught dead at a Medicaid provider.

Everyone ITT wants single payer and is younger than you

Only a complete ignoramus would forfeit their existing health plan for medicaid (or whatever similar single payer plan our train wreck of a government would role out)
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #3349 on: December 17, 2018, 03:28:10 PM »
While many people like the idea of single payer, almost nobody wants to be on Medicaid. That's a fact.

I know a bunch of olds (65+) who advocate for single payer but who wouldn't be caught dead at a Medicaid provider.

Are those olds on Medicare or self insured?

Medicare eligible, unwilling to drop their PPO.
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