"Obamacare"

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Spewing nebulous unsubstantiated platitudes like "healthcare is a human right" and "health insurance is immoral" is so righteous and enlightened . I want a poster with a dood walking on the beach with two sets of footprints behind him, and one of the platitudes drawn in the surf next to him.

The flipside of that poster should read, "I don't know what the eff I'm talking about, but we should do what Europe does because that's what I was programmed to say"

 

[puniraptor]

Don't you want to fix anything?

[star seed 7]

Don't you want to fix anything?

can't wait for fsd's programmed response

[puniraptor]

Maybe I need to start a separate brainstorm thread.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

It's like watching two mentally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) children attempting to employ the socratic method.

[puniraptor]

It's like watching two mentally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) children attempting to employ the socratic method.

I did that earlier and it was awesome and totally effective. 

Don't you want to fix anything? If so, how?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

It's a dog eat dog world out there in utopia. Better get a chair at the governing table.

[puniraptor]

I'm hearing "go back to how it was on leave it to beaver"

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I'm hearing "go back to how it was on leave it to beaver"

You know "the Man" would never allow it, nor would the military industrial complex, the medical insurance complex, the Raytown sports complex or your uncle's duplex. Let us instead build a campfire and talk about how great it would be if nobody ever got sick, and everone had a unicorn to ride to their own personal beach.

[puniraptor]

I honesty can't tell what you want. What do you want?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I honesty can't tell what you want. What do you want?

I want you to understand how naive, ignorant and non-substantive your entire pov is.

[puniraptor]

I honesty can't tell what you want. What do you want?

I want you to understand how naive, ignorant and non-substantive your entire pov is.

imagine for a moment that you have done so with complete success. Now what do you want a heathcare system in america to look like?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Holy carp. This thread has grown by three pages since I went to bed last night. It's basically a bloody mess of libtard bodies with FSD standing at the center.

[puniraptor]

i see 2 people simultaneously worshipping the medical insurance industry and screaming about obamacare expanding it

[chum1]

I mean, I feel like my life is EXACTLY the same as it was prior to the ACA. I know that I am just delusional, though, and that I've actually been ruined financially.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

i see 2 people simultaneously worshipping the medical insurance industry and screaming about obamacare expanding it

Again, if you think I am "worshipping the medical insurance industry" you aren't paying attention.

it takes a truly evil-hearted person to be pro health insurance

I'm far from "pro health insurance." I'm pro people buying routine medical care out pocket with transparent pricing and only using insurance the way any other insurance is actually used. Obamacare puts the insurance carriers on steroids, and then we all pay for the rise in premiums. Some of you really have no idea how this works.

The way people currently use health insurance isn't insurance at all. It's prepaid healthcare. The use of health insurance in this way massively distorts the healthcare market.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I honesty can't tell what you want. What do you want?

I want you to understand how naive, ignorant and non-substantive your entire pov is.

imagine for a moment that you have done so with complete success. Now what do you want a heathcare system in america to look like?

I posted my bar napkin plan nearly two years ago, and it hasn't changed.

I agree. Obamacare must be dismantled, and we generally need to return to a free market system that treats health insurance as actual insurance in order to make it more affordable, but something should be done for the current uninsured with preexisting conditions, particularly young people through no fault of their own. My bar napkin plan:

1. Repeal Obamacare.
2. Permit the purchase of health insurance from anywhere you want, which would effectively nullify the ridiculous minimum coverage mandates of certain states and promote a free market in shopping for insurance products that people actually want and can afford.
3. Dramatically curtail medical malpractice liability, particularly for medicaid and other "free" healthcare situations, which will reduce "defensive medicine" and the associated costs.
4. Encourage growth of HDHCP/HSAs with greater tax incentives.
5. Subsidize temporary high risk pools, phasing out eligibility over the next 4-5 years, for those with preexisting conditions. I'm betting we could subsidize these pools for a mere fraction of what it would cost to fund this current turd of a law.

It is not a perfect solution - nothing is - but it's way better than what we have now.

[puniraptor]

how would the exhorbitant prices be controlled? I dont think it's possible to unexplode the cost bomb without burning the whole system down and reimagining it

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

how would the exhorbitant prices be controlled? I dont think it's possible to unexplode the cost bomb without burning the whole system down and reimagining it

Are you suggesting that if healthcare was sold in a free market the same as pretty much any other good or service, it wouldn't bring down costs? I disagree. The problem is that insurance companies distort that market by acting as a middle man that obfuscates and drives up prices. Consumers tend to overpurchase because "insurance will pay for it", and the doctors bill as much as possibly can, knowing that they won't get 100% from the insurers. It's ridiculous.

Try this some time. Go into an ER and ask the doctor/nurse/anybody who works there "I don't have insurance (or I have a HDHP) - what's this going to cost if I just want to pay for it right now, out of pocket." Nobody can tell you. Nobody. They have a person in the ER in charge of "registration" who's sole job is to collect your insurance info - she has no idea how much the service will cost. Try the same thing at your doctor's office. Maybe you'll get better information - probably not.

The market for healthcare is completely mumped up, and it's mainly because of how we use insurance. Obamacare makes this problem a lot worse - not better.

[puniraptor]

i'm saying we cant get from there to here without burning it down

[puniraptor]

and i dont know

[puniraptor]

idea 3: train everybody in the public schools with elite medical skills and wikipedia so they can self adminster medicine to themselves and their friends

[puniraptor]

idea 4: pretty much logans run but maybe an older cutoff

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I pay more in deductibles and premium for the same coverage (well guess I have access to herpes and Transgender counselling) I had before for no reason other than obamacare. And before you quip that premiums would have gone up anyways, I can tell you you are wrong. We self insure through the business and our premiums would have gone down.

I'm not ruined, but I've essentially been taxed another $3000 per year for nothing.

[chum1]

I pay more in deductibles and premium for the same coverage (well guess I have access to herpes and Transgender counselling) I had before for no reason other than obamacare. And before you quip that premiums would have gone up anyways, I can tell you you are wrong. We self insure through the business and our premiums would have gone down.

I'm not ruined, but I've essentially been taxed another $3000 per year for nothing.

If that really happened to you, no one should care because you're statistically insignficant.