where did the "right" lose its way?

[Pete]

I'll have a serious conversation with someone advocating a position one milometer to the right of center when you can tell me how you have distanced yourselves from right-wing christian zealots.

I believe that my feelings are increasingly common, and those who believe similarly are growing numbers in this country.


This is where I believe the right has lost it's way.  Probably luked in this thread already, but I don't read most of you people's posts in this hell hole of a board, so go eff yourselves.

[steve dave]

Pete, you should probably read the thread, because we are discussing how to do that very thing

[Panjandrum]

I'll have a serious conversation with someone advocating a position one milometer to the right of center when you can tell me how you have distanced yourselves from right-wing christian zealots.

Well said, Pete.

[p1k3]

bump

The right needs to take a really hard look at itself. Obama had no business winning this

They need to drop the social issues. This should be clear by now. They're alienating millions of people, and then wonder why they don't get their votes. Then they alienated all the Libertarians by intimidation, media black out, and even changing the party rules.

What a mess, but what lol

[p1k3]

Charles Krauthamer (sp) said the future of the party is very bright. lol. What an idiot

[mocat]

It's sad pike, very sad. Am I crazy for being liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues? Apparently, because I've never seen a candidate like me. :(

[Rage Against the McKee]

It's sad pike, very sad. Am I crazy for being liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues? Apparently, because I've never seen a candidate like me. :(

Johnson was on the ballot.

[MakeItRain]

This was a great thread and I'm sad I missed it as it was happening.  People were being real without rhetoric, well until John Doug posted.  I consider myself a liberal, a far left liberal but it is refreshing to see true moderates have an intelligent discussion.

I think people like me who consider themselves liberals are wholly social liberals and will flex a bit on fiscal issues.  The problem with the republican party, as most of you pointed out, have made it an issue to trample all over the social issues.  If they stayed true to the small government rhetoric and stayed out of peoples business they could make some headway.  The polling numbers state that most Americans think that Willard would handle the economy better, but he still got rolled.  You would think that the republican party would get the hint that Americans care more about social issues than they think and stop fighting a losing game.  They need to realize that you can't play the same game in national elections as you can in local elections.

[michigancat]

I think losing this election (badly) will be a good thing for the Right. Like when Nebraska kept getting boat-raced in Orange Bowls until Tom Osborne realized they needed (per his euphemism) more "quicker, Miami-type players".

Substitute "voters" for "players" and that's basically what the Right needs, too. 

this was such a great post.

[MixBerryCrunch]

It's sad pike, very sad. Am I crazy for being liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues? Apparently, because I've never seen a candidate like me. :(

Mocat that makes you a Moderate, like me. We just became friends. Congratulations.

[MixBerryCrunch]

This was a great thread and I'm sad I missed it as it was happening.  People were being real without rhetoric, well until John Doug posted.  I consider myself a liberal, a far left liberal but it is refreshing to see true moderates have an intelligent discussion.

I think people like me who consider themselves liberals are wholly social liberals and will flex a bit on fiscal issues.  The problem with the republican party, as most of you pointed out, have made it an issue to trample all over the social issues.  If they stayed true to the small government rhetoric and stayed out of peoples business they could make some headway.  The polling numbers state that most Americans think that Willard would handle the economy better, but he still got rolled.  You would think that the republican party would get the hint that Americans care more about social issues than they think and stop fighting a losing game.  They need to realize that you can't play the same game in national elections as you can in local elections.

Agree. It's so hard to convince people that Republicans aren't actually as stupid when it comes to economic, fiscal, and foreign relations issues as they are on social issues.  On the other hand it's hard to convince my liberal friends that capital gains are doubly taxed and so that is why Mitt only paid a 16% tax rate on them. It's extremely frustrating when 80% of the country can't see both sides of an argument and make an informative decision for themselves instead of just aligning all of their views with that of their political party.

[mocat]

This was a fantastic thread

[Kat Kid]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

[Dugout DickStone]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

They will abandon pot.  Huge waste of effort.  If they had any sense they'd abandon gay marriage also.

They can still win with the others on board.

[Rage Against the McKee]

This was a great thread and I'm sad I missed it as it was happening.  People were being real without rhetoric, well until John Doug posted.  I consider myself a liberal, a far left liberal but it is refreshing to see true moderates have an intelligent discussion.

I think people like me who consider themselves liberals are wholly social liberals and will flex a bit on fiscal issues.  The problem with the republican party, as most of you pointed out, have made it an issue to trample all over the social issues.  If they stayed true to the small government rhetoric and stayed out of peoples business they could make some headway.  The polling numbers state that most Americans think that Willard would handle the economy better, but he still got rolled.  You would think that the republican party would get the hint that Americans care more about social issues than they think and stop fighting a losing game.  They need to realize that you can't play the same game in national elections as you can in local elections.

Agree. It's so hard to convince people that Republicans aren't actually as stupid when it comes to economic, fiscal, and foreign relations issues as they are on social issues.  On the other hand it's hard to convince my liberal friends that capital gains are doubly taxed and so that is why Mitt only paid a 16% tax rate on them. It's extremely frustrating when 80% of the country can't see both sides of an argument and make an informative decision for themselves instead of just aligning all of their views with that of their political party.

Capital gains absolutely are not double-taxed. The only thing remotely unfair to people who earn capital gains is that there is a limit to the amount of loss you can claim in a single year.

[Pete]

On the other hand it's hard to convince my liberal friends that capital gains are doubly taxed and so that is why Mitt only paid a 16% tax rate on them.

Since when are capital gains doubly taxed?

Surely you aren't talking about people who purchase equities in the stock market, are you?

[MakeItRain]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

I don't think the Hispanic vote is completely unobtainable for the republicans. They just need to find a candidate who decides not to vilify illegal immigrants. Moreso, they need somebody who doesn't want to turn non-white US citizens into a lower class that has to register with an e-verify system so they can find work and not have to deport themselves.

[nicname]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

Republicans could own every election from here to infinity if they would just do away with all of the bigotry and personal liberties b.s.

I mean, "Let people do what they want, AND don't take all their money," seems like that message would catch on.  I dunno.

[star seed 7]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

a quarter of their demographic might not even be alive in 4 years 

[star seed 7]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

I don't think the Hispanic vote is completely unobtainable for the republicans. They just need to find a candidate who decides not to vilify illegal immigrants. Moreso, they need somebody who doesn't want to turn non-white US citizens into a lower class that has to register with an e-verify system so they can find work and not have to deport themselves.

pretty much was bush II, and it was the 1 thing that the right wing talk shows constantly berated him about.

[Dugout DickStone]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

That was my take away today.  They are just out numbered.

[p1k3]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

I think you're both right. But this guy on Fox was just saying that if the Rs continue to lose the Hispanic vote like they are, then they can forget about it

It will be interesting to see if the Rs can do this since the party is so chalk full of closed minded racists and bigots

[nicname]

I was thinking about this today.  It feels like we are becoming a one-party country.  Weird, but GOP is doing it to themselves.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Dick Lugar was defeated in a primary by that fool Murdock.  Dick Lugar is one of the most serious foreign policy voices in the United States Senate.  He got freaking primary'd by the tea party.  The people that used to vote Republican are being shoved by a committed group of 25-30% of the electorate that forces Republicans to bow down or gtfo.  There are absolutely interest group politics on the left, but it has become such a diverse set of interests that it has mostly woven itself in to the generally electorate.  Meanwhile, demographics and fundamentalism is going to doom the Republicans.

But look, let's not get out of hand.  It is hard to beat an incumbent. 

Bush I
Clinton
Clinton
Bush II
Bush II
Obama
Obama

Republicans will have an excellent shot in four years.  Anyone that pretends to know what their candidate will be or what the Democratic nominee will be is nuts.  But a lot of issues on the ground are going to make fools of the religious right.  Gay Marriage, Pot, Birth Control, Immigration.  These are devastating losers for the right long term.

I think that Republicans are facing a growing demographic issue, this isn't going away with the end of Obama's term.

I think you're both right. But this guy on Fox was just saying that if the Rs continue to lose the Hispanic vote like they are, then they can forget about it

It will be interesting to see if the Rs can do this since the party is so chalk full of closed minded racists and bigots

If I were Hispanic I would be distancing myself as far from the republican party as possible. "Papers, please" and other similar policies can just GTFOOMF.