Privatizing Education/Romney's plan

[Rage Against the McKee]

3.  The criticism of the size, structure, and pay of Administration doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny.  First how many corporations/organizations employ management from outside their organization or area of expertise?  If corporations were forced to disclose compensation for management/administration do you think school employees would make more?  Do you think their job is considerably easier?

I don't think there really is anybody holding the typical school administrator accountable in the way that stockholders hold a corporation's CEO accountable.

Board of Education????

They are just a bunch of parents who know absolutely nothing about how a school system works. Do you really think they are going to be as hard to please as a board of directors who are majority shareholders in your company and whose livelihoods are directly tied to your performance?

[LickNeckey]

1. NCLB is not perfect however it has made teachers and schools more aware of struggling populations/students.  This information when used successfully allows teachers to generate programs/curriculum to meet the needs of each student.  This increased individualization has had an impact. 

I disagree with this point.   As the proficiency percentages increased, I was less able to create lessons or even supplement the district curriculum.   We spent all day, every day until the end of April cramming test prep into all students' heads, regardless of ability or readiness level.  Once May came around, the whole atmosphere lightened and the kids started to enjoy learning.  We were allowed to do big, cross-curricular projects.  We were allowed to teach social studies and science!

Elementary?

It can be time consuming but science and social studies can be incorporated into lessons preparing students for math and language arts assessment.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

[LickNeckey]

3.  The criticism of the size, structure, and pay of Administration doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny.  First how many corporations/organizations employ management from outside their organization or area of expertise?  If corporations were forced to disclose compensation for management/administration do you think school employees would make more?  Do you think their job is considerably easier?

I don't think there really is anybody holding the typical school administrator accountable in the way that stockholders hold a corporation's CEO accountable.

Board of Education????

They are just a bunch of parents who know absolutely nothing about how a school system works. Do you really think they are going to be as hard to please as a board of directors who are majority shareholders in your company and whose livelihoods are directly tied to your performance?

Your initial point was concerning administrative accountability.  My point is there is a board in place to formerly evaluate performance.  If you feel BOE's are incompetent fine, but if you contend that stockholders hold CEO's accountable I would suggest parents represent the educational equivalent.  I would even venture to say that most are more passionate about there children than there stock options.

[LickNeckey]

Also a little bit of google research indicates that the average private school tuition is around $8,600.

Does this mean that the government is more cost effective than the private sector???

[HeinBallz]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

Jesus Christ no.  Kids need a damn break - they're not developmentally able to stay focused for a normal school year until junior high.   You sound like a parent that wants free childcare.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

Jesus Christ no.  Kids need a damn break - they're not developmentally able to stay focused for a normal school year until junior high.   You sound like a parent that wants free childcare.

LOL, I don't have kids. I'm just a citizen concerned about the future of this country. Kids can get breaks. They don't need a 3 month break.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

Just move to California. You can be making more than $90,000 with full retirement bennies within 15 years. The state may be broke by then, but its worth a shot.

Does that $90,000 include benefits or is that base salary? Also, what do California teachers start at?

That's base. I am describing a good friend who travels to exotic places every year and uses her sick leave to play golf school days.  They start at about $35K, and depending on education and type of kids you teach, pay goes up pretty quickly.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/PayrollListing/OlatheSchoolPayrollList/tabid/1593/Default.aspx


You have to go 17 pages until you get to a page with a majority out classroom teachers on it.

Yeah, school administrators are ridiculously overpaid.

What are the comps on executives overseeing million dollar budgets, 40-100+staff and also legally liable for hundreds to thousands of customers?  As for central office staff, you probably won't get too many complaints from me on that, but again compliance with state and federal law, preserving funding and getting new revenue streams (grants) for an organization of that size is going to require people.

I would venture a guess that the manager of a applebees makes $28000 starting off, without a central staff to boot.  Of course if he fails the customer goes to chilis.  If the admin fails the only option is for the customer to move districts or pony up $8600 per kid for private school.

The applebees guy also works year round and on weekends

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/PayrollListing/OlatheSchoolPayrollList/tabid/1593/Default.aspx


You have to go 17 pages until you get to a page with a majority out classroom teachers on it.

Yeah, school administrators are ridiculously overpaid.

What are the comps on executives overseeing million dollar budgets, 40-100+staff and also legally liable for hundreds to thousands of customers?  As for central office staff, you probably won't get too many complaints from me on that, but again compliance with state and federal law, preserving funding and getting new revenue streams (grants) for an organization of that size is going to require people.

I would venture a guess that the manager of a applebees makes $28000 starting off, without a central staff to boot.  Of course if he fails the customer goes to chilis.  If the admin fails the only option is for the customer to move districts or pony up $8600 per kid for private school.

The applebees guy also works year round and on weekends

 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I am not sure where you are getting the notion that there is a plethora of paras in schools, but there are definitely more now than there were when I started teaching.  However, they are certainly needed, especially when the law states that all children must be educated in the least restrictive environment possible. 

My last year of teaching (2 years ago), I had 22 students in my fifth grade class.  One student was autistic, and he  was on the lower functioning end of the spectrum...very challenging.  Another student was bipolar and oppositional defiant, and he regularly threw things across the room, was violent toward both students and adults, and ran out of the classroom every time he was expected to do work.  I had one para for a limited time each day.  But hey, if my students (including the two mentioned above) didn't pass the state assessments, guess who got the blame?

Well we've identified another symptom of a much larger problem.  What's "fair" to one kid is completely unfair to 21 others. But what would the public school system be if we didn't placate those screaming the loudest.

[Kat Kid]

I am not sure where you are getting the notion that there is a plethora of paras in schools, but there are definitely more now than there were when I started teaching.  However, they are certainly needed, especially when the law states that all children must be educated in the least restrictive environment possible. 

My last year of teaching (2 years ago), I had 22 students in my fifth grade class.  One student was autistic, and he  was on the lower functioning end of the spectrum...very challenging.  Another student was bipolar and oppositional defiant, and he regularly threw things across the room, was violent toward both students and adults, and ran out of the classroom every time he was expected to do work.  I had one para for a limited time each day.  But hey, if my students (including the two mentioned above) didn't pass the state assessments, guess who got the blame?

Well we've identified another symptom of a much larger problem.  What's "fair" to one kid is completely unfair to 21 others. But what would the public school system be if we didn't placate those screaming the loudest.

What is your solution for students with special needs?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I am not sure where you are getting the notion that there is a plethora of paras in schools, but there are definitely more now than there were when I started teaching.  However, they are certainly needed, especially when the law states that all children must be educated in the least restrictive environment possible. 

My last year of teaching (2 years ago), I had 22 students in my fifth grade class.  One student was autistic, and he  was on the lower functioning end of the spectrum...very challenging.  Another student was bipolar and oppositional defiant, and he regularly threw things across the room, was violent toward both students and adults, and ran out of the classroom every time he was expected to do work.  I had one para for a limited time each day.  But hey, if my students (including the two mentioned above) didn't pass the state assessments, guess who got the blame?

Well we've identified another symptom of a much larger problem.  What's "fair" to one kid is completely unfair to 21 others. But what would the public school system be if we didn't placate those screaming the loudest.

What is your solution for students with special needs?

I'm torn between abortion and public school administrator apprenticeships?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I am not sure where you are getting the notion that there is a plethora of paras in schools, but there are definitely more now than there were when I started teaching.  However, they are certainly needed, especially when the law states that all children must be educated in the least restrictive environment possible. 

My last year of teaching (2 years ago), I had 22 students in my fifth grade class.  One student was autistic, and he  was on the lower functioning end of the spectrum...very challenging.  Another student was bipolar and oppositional defiant, and he regularly threw things across the room, was violent toward both students and adults, and ran out of the classroom every time he was expected to do work.  I had one para for a limited time each day.  But hey, if my students (including the two mentioned above) didn't pass the state assessments, guess who got the blame?

Well we've identified another symptom of a much larger problem.  What's "fair" to one kid is completely unfair to 21 others. But what would the public school system be if we didn't placate those screaming the loudest.

What is your solution for students with special needs?

I say team them up with the teachers with special needs.

[06wildcat]

90 percent of school administrators are rough ridin' worthless. The other 10 percent last about three years before moving on after some rat on the school board gets her panties in a bunch over her kid having to actually follow the rules.

[HeinBallz]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

Jesus Christ no.  Kids need a damn break - they're not developmentally able to stay focused for a normal school year until junior high.   You sound like a parent that wants free childcare.

LOL, I don't have kids. I'm just a citizen concerned about the future of this country. Kids can get breaks. They don't need a 3 month break.

Longer stretches of a mumped up educational system isn't going to magically make everything all better. I'm seeing the biggest problem in this nation revolves around people that don't have kids or are not involved in the school system thinking they have an educated opinion on how school system should be run.  So much ignorance in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stellarcat]

1. NCLB is not perfect however it has made teachers and schools more aware of struggling populations/students.  This information when used successfully allows teachers to generate programs/curriculum to meet the needs of each student.  This increased individualization has had an impact. 

I disagree with this point.   As the proficiency percentages increased, I was less able to create lessons or even supplement the district curriculum.   We spent all day, every day until the end of April cramming test prep into all students' heads, regardless of ability or readiness level.  Once May came around, the whole atmosphere lightened and the kids started to enjoy learning.  We were allowed to do big, cross-curricular projects.  We were allowed to teach social studies and science!

Elementary?

It can be time consuming but science and social studies can be incorporated into lessons preparing students for math and language arts assessment.

Yes, elementary.  The point is that teachers have less freedom to incorporate anything into the lessons, because districts are now on a kick to stick to the textbooks.  When I started teaching, it was the opposite and teaching straight from the book was frowned upon.  Besides, the best way to teach SS and Science is to do so with a hands-on approach.  I still have students from years ago who remember colonization because we divided into teams, "sailed" across the ocean, traded with Native Americans, lost colony members to illness, etc.  Teamwork, compromise...  They wouldn't have learned our retained nearly as much if the subject was being taught while reading passages for test prep.

Kind of getting off topic, because I'm sure you all were dying to read about my lesson plans for fifth grade.  I loved teaching, but I hated cramming test prep every hour of every day.  Just got my Master's in School Counseling, so I'm pretty excited that I will struggle to find a job because of the budget cuts and subsequent decisions to cut counselors left and right.   

[3maw]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

Jesus Christ no.  Kids need a damn break - they're not developmentally able to stay focused for a normal school year until junior high.   You sound like a parent that wants free childcare.

LOL, I don't have kids. I'm just a citizen concerned about the future of this country. Kids can get breaks. They don't need a 3 month break.

Longer stretches of a mumped up educational system isn't going to magically make everything all better. I'm seeing the biggest problem in this nation revolves around people that don't have kids or are not involved in the school system thinking they have an educated opinion on how school system should be run.  So much ignorance in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah, i'm tired of people who dont have kids but who have gone thru the education system themselves give input. i mean, they only witnessed first hand for thirteen years how schools are run. times have changed, sure.

[3maw]

1. NCLB is not perfect however it has made teachers and schools more aware of struggling populations/students.  This information when used successfully allows teachers to generate programs/curriculum to meet the needs of each student.  This increased individualization has had an impact. 

I disagree with this point.   As the proficiency percentages increased, I was less able to create lessons or even supplement the district curriculum.   We spent all day, every day until the end of April cramming test prep into all students' heads, regardless of ability or readiness level.  Once May came around, the whole atmosphere lightened and the kids started to enjoy learning.  We were allowed to do big, cross-curricular projects.  We were allowed to teach social studies and science!

Elementary?

It can be time consuming but science and social studies can be incorporated into lessons preparing students for math and language arts assessment.

Yes, elementary.  The point is that teachers have less freedom to incorporate anything into the lessons, because districts are now on a kick to stick to the textbooks.  When I started teaching, it was the opposite and teaching straight from the book was frowned upon.  Besides, the best way to teach SS and Science is to do so with a hands-on approach.  I still have students from years ago who remember colonization because we divided into teams, "sailed" across the ocean, traded with Native Americans, lost colony members to illness, etc.  Teamwork, compromise...  They wouldn't have learned our retained nearly as much if the subject was being taught while reading passages for test prep.

Kind of getting off topic, because I'm sure you all were dying to read about my lesson plans for fifth grade.  I loved teaching, but I hated cramming test prep every hour of every day.  Just got my Master's in School Counseling, so I'm pretty excited that I will struggle to find a job because of the budget cuts and subsequent decisions to cut counselors left and right.   

exactly. anymore, teachers are just trying to scramble to figure out ways to teach kids what may or may not be on the assessments, and that is not necessarily what they should be focusing on. 5th grade, did colonization, then westward movement, then a civil war thing. with test prep, we'd never have time to be able to get that hands on. they don't test over what you learned from those experiences, or about friction... they ask random stuff, like what materials are magnetic or not, which i think we did guess and check on this experiment in first grade.

[ednksu]

http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/PayrollListing/OlatheSchoolPayrollList/tabid/1593/Default.aspx


You have to go 17 pages until you get to a page with a majority out classroom teachers on it.

Yeah, school administrators are ridiculously overpaid.

What are the comps on executives overseeing million dollar budgets, 40-100+staff and also legally liable for hundreds to thousands of customers?  As for central office staff, you probably won't get too many complaints from me on that, but again compliance with state and federal law, preserving funding and getting new revenue streams (grants) for an organization of that size is going to require people.

I would venture a guess that the manager of a applebees makes $28000 starting off, without a central staff to boot.  Of course if he fails the customer goes to chilis.  If the admin fails the only option is for the customer to move districts or pony up $8600 per kid for private school.

The applebees guy also works year round and on weekends

applebees guy makes more than many starting teachers. 

[ednksu]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

Jesus Christ no.  Kids need a damn break - they're not developmentally able to stay focused for a normal school year until junior high.   You sound like a parent that wants free childcare.

This isn't true.  There is a lot of good data that suggests retention is hurt with our long summer breaks in the US.  The idea behind year long schooling is to have the same number of school days and move parts of the summer break to a longer winter break and around spring break. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/PayrollListing/OlatheSchoolPayrollList/tabid/1593/Default.aspx


You have to go 17 pages until you get to a page with a majority out classroom teachers on it.

Yeah, school administrators are ridiculously overpaid.

What are the comps on executives overseeing million dollar budgets, 40-100+staff and also legally liable for hundreds to thousands of customers?  As for central office staff, you probably won't get too many complaints from me on that, but again compliance with state and federal law, preserving funding and getting new revenue streams (grants) for an organization of that size is going to require people.

I would venture a guess that the manager of a applebees makes $28000 starting off, without a central staff to boot.  Of course if he fails the customer goes to chilis.  If the admin fails the only option is for the customer to move districts or pony up $8600 per kid for private school.

The applebees guy also works year round and on weekends

applebees guy makes more than many starting teachers.

You don't just walk into an Applebees and manage it, though. It takes years of experience to make manager.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would of loved to have been a teacher and thought about it in college but I couldnt get over how little the pay was. That being said I dont think teachers are underpaid. They get summers off, 2 weeks off for christmas, all those random holidays the real world doesnt get off(mlk day, presidents day etc) so it evens out.

If I were to become incredibly rich by the time I'm 45-50 I would probably quit my job and become a teacher. You would still be bringing in some money and would have plenty of time for vacations.

yeah than include continuing ed which is necessary for NCLB, spending more of their own money than any other profession would to make their work places (classrooms) run because people don't want to pay a fair share for taxes to support their schools, regularly spend at least 20% more time than they are contracted doing school duties, or the fact that many other people do get those days off as well and no, teachers are behind the 8 ball.

I don't think teachers are worked too hard, by any means. They are moderately underpaid, but really I think we need to stop giving kids summers off school. Just make them go year-round and compensate teachers accordingly.

Jesus Christ no.  Kids need a damn break - they're not developmentally able to stay focused for a normal school year until junior high.   You sound like a parent that wants free childcare.

LOL, I don't have kids. I'm just a citizen concerned about the future of this country. Kids can get breaks. They don't need a 3 month break.

Longer stretches of a mumped up educational system isn't going to magically make everything all better. I'm seeing the biggest problem in this nation revolves around people that don't have kids or are not involved in the school system thinking they have an educated opinion on how school system should be run.  So much ignorance in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that there is some magic thing that happens when you have kids that suddenly makes you more qualified to comment on public education.

[ednksu]

http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/PayrollListing/OlatheSchoolPayrollList/tabid/1593/Default.aspx


You have to go 17 pages until you get to a page with a majority out classroom teachers on it.

Yeah, school administrators are ridiculously overpaid.

What are the comps on executives overseeing million dollar budgets, 40-100+staff and also legally liable for hundreds to thousands of customers?  As for central office staff, you probably won't get too many complaints from me on that, but again compliance with state and federal law, preserving funding and getting new revenue streams (grants) for an organization of that size is going to require people.

I would venture a guess that the manager of a applebees makes $28000 starting off, without a central staff to boot.  Of course if he fails the customer goes to chilis.  If the admin fails the only option is for the customer to move districts or pony up $8600 per kid for private school.

The applebees guy also works year round and on weekends

applebees guy makes more than many starting teachers.

You don't just walk into an Applebees and manage it, though. It takes years of experience to make manager.

from high  school lets say.  It will take you just as much time if not less to be a manger as it would take to be a basic, minimally qualified teacher.  The applebees candidate would have a further advantage of on the job training and years of experience working in the environment. Where as a teacher has none of that walking out the door aside from a few months of  student teaching with significant scaffolding.

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/PayrollListing/OlatheSchoolPayrollList/tabid/1593/Default.aspx


You have to go 17 pages until you get to a page with a majority out classroom teachers on it.

Yeah, school administrators are ridiculously overpaid.

What are the comps on executives overseeing million dollar budgets, 40-100+staff and also legally liable for hundreds to thousands of customers?  As for central office staff, you probably won't get too many complaints from me on that, but again compliance with state and federal law, preserving funding and getting new revenue streams (grants) for an organization of that size is going to require people.

I would venture a guess that the manager of a applebees makes $28000 starting off, without a central staff to boot.  Of course if he fails the customer goes to chilis.  If the admin fails the only option is for the customer to move districts or pony up $8600 per kid for private school.

The applebees guy also works year round and on weekends

applebees guy makes more than many starting teachers.

You don't just walk into an Applebees and manage it, though. It takes years of experience to make manager.

from high  school lets say.  It will take you just as much time if not less to be a manger as it would take to be a basic, minimally qualified teacher.  The applebees candidate would have a further advantage of on the job training and years of experience working in the environment. Where as a teacher has none of that walking out the door aside from a few months of  student teaching with significant scaffolding.

That's pretty doubtful. I would imagine you would get passed over a few times by someone with a degree.