Official Klein for Heisman (Kleinsman) Thread

[MakeItRain]

That's great research that doesn't contradict anything I said. It also doesn't present an argument in favor of Klein over Manziel. But it's still great, you did a very nice job.

I never attempted to present Klein over Manziel, I am pissed about people who changed their vote after he had a game in which he threw three touchdown passes.  I'm pissed because for two decades the narrative for how you should vote has changed from season to season sometimes within the season based on who ESPN wants to push.  If Collin Klein was #1 on your ballot on November 18th, he should have stayed there.  I'm not sure how I would have voted if I was a media member, I'm biased.  I know for a fact that I wouldn't have had any combination of Teo, Manziel, and Klein in my top three.  I also know that Bishop would have been 1 in 1998 and Sproles would have been 1 in 2003.  If either of them would have won, I would be less pissed about getting robbed again and I would be more likely in this thread to say my 2012 vote would have been for Boyd, Marcus Mariota, Jarvis Jones, Jdaveon Clowney, Jordan Lynch, or Terrance Williams.

The people I'm railing against are the same people who would vote for Marquise Lee but don't know who Williams is.

I don't have any issue with any that once you're past your KSU tiny pee-pee syndrome. I mean, it isn't like the people you listed all came from schools that the media hates or isn't sexy or whatever the reason people think the media hates KSU, (yes, I know some did).

You're right that the Heisman is an annual groupthink bonanza, and Manziel just had a perfect groupthink storm this year.

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?  Klein can be hurt by being from KSU without anyone hating KSU.  Marquis Lee is going to finish 4th and its simply because he goes to USC.  He's having a great season but it isn't exceptional this year or any other.  Do you think you'll look less credible in the eyes of whoknowswho if you acknowledge that Klein was somewhat hurt by the fact he is the starting quarterback at Kansas State University?  If you're not a member of one of the chosen programs or the chosen conference you have to have better everything than one in the protected class. 

College football never has been and never will be a meritocracy.  Not acknowledging that is trying too hard to be edgy.

[MakeItRain]

wins at the end of the year matter more, etc

sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, depends on what ESPN wants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Oklahoma_Sooners_football_team#2003

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Nebraska_Cornhuskers_football_team

blown the eff out

[michigancat]

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?

Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?  Klein can be hurt by being from KSU without anyone hating KSU.  Marquis Lee is going to finish 4th and its simply because he goes to USC.  He's having a great season but it isn't exceptional this year or any other.  Do you think you'll look less credible in the eyes of whoknowswho if you acknowledge that Klein was somewhat hurt by the fact he is the starting quarterback at Kansas State University?  If you're not a member of one of the chosen programs or the chosen conference you have to have better everything than one in the protected class. 

Jesus Christ you may have a point if we were talking about that Alabama QB that cried winning it, but we're talking about a school that hasn't done anything significant in recent memory and had their only Heisman winner in 1957. Manziel is not part of the "protected class" at all. He just had a perfect storm of highlights, crazy stats, and a crazy win. Yes, Klein may have stats comparable to Eric Crouch or whatever 90's stats you want to pull, but Eric Crouch wasn't up against someone like Manziel.

Sure, playing for Kansas State may have cost Klein a few votes, but it's not why he lost the Heisman. Sorry if that's too edgy for you.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Manziel is a freshman idiots. If he won the heisman, it would be unprecedented.

It's Mantis Teo's dead grandma that's the biggest cause for concern.

[kim carnes]

Manziel is a freshman idiots. If he won the heisman, it would be unprecedented.

It's Mantis Teo's dead grandma that's the biggest cause for concern.

manziel is going to win, dumbass

[Katpappy]

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?

Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?  Klein can be hurt by being from KSU without anyone hating KSU.  Marquis Lee is going to finish 4th and its simply because he goes to USC.  He's having a great season but it isn't exceptional this year or any other.  Do you think you'll look less credible in the eyes of whoknowswho if you acknowledge that Klein was somewhat hurt by the fact he is the starting quarterback at Kansas State University?  If you're not a member of one of the chosen programs or the chosen conference you have to have better everything than one in the protected class. 

Jesus Christ you may have a point if we were talking about that Alabama QB that cried winning it, but we're talking about a school that hasn't done anything significant in recent memory and had their only Heisman winner in 1957. Manziel is not part of the "protected class" at all. He just had a perfect storm of highlights, crazy stats, and a crazy win. Yes, Klein may have stats comparable to Eric Crouch or whatever 90's stats you want to pull, but Eric Crouch wasn't up against someone like Manziel.

Sure, playing for Kansas State may have cost Klein a few votes, but it's not why he lost the Heisman. Sorry if that's too edgy for you.

Rusty, what kind of inside info. do you have; I thought the Heisman presentation is this Thursday. 

[MakeItRain]

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?

Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?  Klein can be hurt by being from KSU without anyone hating KSU.  Marquis Lee is going to finish 4th and its simply because he goes to USC.  He's having a great season but it isn't exceptional this year or any other.  Do you think you'll look less credible in the eyes of whoknowswho if you acknowledge that Klein was somewhat hurt by the fact he is the starting quarterback at Kansas State University?  If you're not a member of one of the chosen programs or the chosen conference you have to have better everything than one in the protected class. 

Jesus Christ you may have a point if we were talking about that Alabama QB that cried winning it, but we're talking about a school that hasn't done anything significant in recent memory and had their only Heisman winner in 1957. Manziel is not part of the "protected class" at all. He just had a perfect storm of highlights, crazy stats, and a crazy win. Yes, Klein may have stats comparable to Eric Crouch or whatever 90's stats you want to pull, but Eric Crouch wasn't up against someone like Manziel.

Sure, playing for Kansas State may have cost Klein a few votes, but it's not why he lost the Heisman. Sorry if that's too edgy for you.

SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC

Manziel wasn't crap until he beat Alabama.  Why did no on talk about Nick Florence or Terrance Williams after they beat #1?

Sure, playing for Kansas State may have cost Klein a few votes, but it's not why he lost the Heisman. Sorry if that's too edgy for you.

Rusty, what kind of inside info. do you have; I thought the Heisman presentation is this Thursday. 

LOL, Katdaddy post

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Manziel is a freshman idiots. If he won the heisman, it would be unprecedented.

It's Mantis Teo's dead grandma that's the biggest cause for concern.

manziel is going to win, dumbass

Would be a complete joke. Given the current state of our society, I would not be surprised at all.

[MakeItRain]

Would be a complete joke. Given the current state of our society, I would not be surprised at all.

The absolute best, you just keep being you FSD.  I'm going back to the pit now that I know you're back

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Would be a complete joke. Given the current state of our society, I would not be surprised at all.

The absolute best, you just keep being you FSD.  I'm going back to the pit now that I know you're back

Stop following me around the interwebs, toolshed

[Dugout DickStone]

Does ck win with his numbers if at USC?

[michigancat]

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?

Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State

When did I say anything about the media hating KSU?  Klein can be hurt by being from KSU without anyone hating KSU.  Marquis Lee is going to finish 4th and its simply because he goes to USC.  He's having a great season but it isn't exceptional this year or any other.  Do you think you'll look less credible in the eyes of whoknowswho if you acknowledge that Klein was somewhat hurt by the fact he is the starting quarterback at Kansas State University?  If you're not a member of one of the chosen programs or the chosen conference you have to have better everything than one in the protected class. 

Jesus Christ you may have a point if we were talking about that Alabama QB that cried winning it, but we're talking about a school that hasn't done anything significant in recent memory and had their only Heisman winner in 1957. Manziel is not part of the "protected class" at all. He just had a perfect storm of highlights, crazy stats, and a crazy win. Yes, Klein may have stats comparable to Eric Crouch or whatever 90's stats you want to pull, but Eric Crouch wasn't up against someone like Manziel.

Sure, playing for Kansas State may have cost Klein a few votes, but it's not why he lost the Heisman. Sorry if that's too edgy for you.

SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC

Manziel wasn't crap until he beat Alabama.  Why did no on talk about Nick Florence or Terrance Williams after they beat #1?

Because they play for Baylor, duh. Like someone that far from football's "protected class" would ever be considered.

[Mixed-Nutz]

If K-State traded Klein for Johnny we probably only win 7 games this year, that is the sad part of this strange arm award. Also aTm would probably of won at least one more game this year.

[MakeItRain]

But a year after a Bear won the Hypesman they have two players with Hypesman like numbers and they won't get one damn point between the two of them, weird.

You win MIcat, there is no such thing as media bias.  I thought I made it clear from the start that group think not media bias is the prevalent flaw in Hypesman voting, and media bias is a secondary flaw.  I was wrong, media bias doesn't exist at all, not on a regional basis & not on a national basis.  I've seen the light.

[sys]

no one deserves the heisman this year.  they should bank it and give out two in a year when two are merited.

[MakeItRain]

This season is no different than any other recently minus Cameron Jerrell Newton.

[michigancat]

But a year after a Bear won the Hypesman they have two players with Hypesman like numbers and they won't get one damn point between the two of them, weird.

You win MIcat, there is no such thing as media bias.  I thought I made it clear from the start that group think not media bias is the prevalent flaw in Hypesman voting, and media bias is a secondary flaw.  I was wrong, media bias doesn't exist at all, not on a regional basis & not on a national basis.  I've seen the light.

Ha, ha what a stupid straw man, considering I already acknowledged bias exists.

[sys]

This season is no different than any other recently minus Cameron Jerrell Newton.

just keep banking them until they're earned.

[MakeItRain]

Well then what the hell are we arguing about?  I made it clear that Klein isn't going to lose because of media bias, its a combination of the following in this order:
1. Groupthink
2. Media bias
3. His numbers

My point of all of this was to shoot down two theories.  His "bad" game against Baylor when his threw three TD 3s  cost him the award and that he doesn't have Heisman like numbers.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Well then what the hell are we arguing about?  I made it clear that Klein isn't going to lose because of media bias, its a combination of the following in this order:
1. Groupthink
2. Media bias
3. His numbers

My point of all of this was to shoot down two theories.  His "bad" game against Baylor when his threw three TD 3s  cost him the award and that he doesn't have Heisman like numbers.

I think a lot pollster problems come from a lack of understanding football, for god stakes K-State preseason Big 12 ranking was 6th.

[michigancat]

I would put his numbers at one or two, and I think group think is actually helping him. Like you said, Manziel should have passed Klein after the tcu game, but groupthink let Klein hang on longer than he maybe should have. And despite a couple subpar games, groupthink is keeping Colin ahead of many of the guys you mentioned with superior stats.

[MakeItRain]

I agree with that, I never said he should win.  I would take it a step farther and say that Manziel could be eliminated for the same reasons that Klein would be, he doesn't have the best numbers either.  However, if I were given a ballot with these three names on it though I'd vote for Klein.

[ednksu]

I would put his numbers at one or two, and I think group think is actually helping him. Like you said, Manziel should have passed Klein after the tcu game, but groupthink let Klein hang on longer than he maybe should have. And despite a couple subpar games, groupthink is keeping Colin ahead of many of the guys you mentioned with superior stats.

you have no idea what group think is. 

[kso_FAN]

It may be a bit different this year because the field isn't as deep, but IMO the reactionary nature of the Heisman isn't a lot different than many other years. Not really different than most other national awards really in many ways the Heisman is just more strange because of the large group of voters that come from broad backgrounds. We're just closer to the Heisman stuff this year because we have a player in the discussion and a finalist.

[_33]

Man, the Heisman would have been nice. You have to admit.