Official Klein for Heisman (Kleinsman) Thread

[AbeFroman]

I'm starting to accept the idea of Teo winning it. At least his team is undefeated and has "MUH NOTRE DAME TRADITION". Manziel is a racist alcoholic that ran up his stats while winning by 4+ TD"s against garbage like Auburn and Missouri, I can't accept horseshit like that.

[MakeItRain]

Mean while, major sour grapes over at the The Oklahoman, The Oklahoman's Heisman Trophy ballots. Check out the comments from the aggies, major butthurt. If Scooby doo doesn't win this thing college station will burn to the ground

what crybabies, I hope OU beats them by eleventybillion

[Rage Against the McKee]

I'm starting to accept the idea of Teo winning it. At least his team is undefeated and has "MUH NOTRE DAME TRADITION". Manziel is a racist alcoholic that ran up his stats while winning by 4+ TD"s against garbage like Auburn and Missouri, I can't accept horseshit like that.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Teo win it, but Manziel just gets on my nerves.

[ArchE_Cat]

I'm starting to accept the idea of Teo winning it. At least his team is undefeated and has "MUH NOTRE DAME TRADITION". Manziel is a racist alcoholic that ran up his stats while winning by 4+ TD"s against garbage like Auburn and Missouri, I can't accept horseshit like that.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Teo win it, but Manziel just gets on my nerves.

I'm with you. Teo or Optimus, they've both paid their dues, senior leadership, stand up dudes, yadda yadda yadda. Johnny just seems like a punk, tweeting that he is wearing scooby socks to the ceremony before the finalists are even announced, yeah he needs punched in the face

[Rage Against the McKee]

I'm starting to accept the idea of Teo winning it. At least his team is undefeated and has "MUH NOTRE DAME TRADITION". Manziel is a racist alcoholic that ran up his stats while winning by 4+ TD"s against garbage like Auburn and Missouri, I can't accept horseshit like that.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Teo win it, but Manziel just gets on my nerves.

I'm with you. Teo or Optimus, they've both paid their dues, senior leadership, stand up dudes, yadda yadda yadda. Johnny just seems like a punk, tweeting that he is wearing scooby socks to the ceremony before the finalists are even announced, yeah he needs punched in the face

I didn't see that tweet, but it just makes me want to punch him and everyone who voted for him right in the face.

[MakeItRain]

I'm not going to be butthurt about Klein not winning, had a shot and blew it.

thats how i feel but it sucks. if k-state won their last two games he would be the winner and we would be playing ND but he and the team were horrible at baylor. if johnny football wasnt in the SEC i think klein would still have a chance but oh well.

That's a very dumb take.  So now we're adding undefeated to the criteria and you dipshits are buying it from the media hook, line & sinker.  Most people that say this is going to vote for someone who lost twice.  Being undefeated certainly wasn't the criteria when Bishop finished 2nd.

Out of the last 20 Heisman winning QBs, going all the way back to Gary Beban in 1967, only 6 of them finished undefeated.  Many of those; Tebow, White, Couch, Weinke, Wuerffel, etc. lost at least one of the last three games before the ballots were due.

I have to hear this stupid rough ridin' talking point from many in the national media too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.  I refuse to hear it here.  Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State and the ESPN hype machine made it clear from the start that if Klein lost he would not win the Heisman and everyone else blindly followed.  In addition to this Johnny Hatecrime beat Alabama giving these same idiots a clean excuse for ignorance.

I'm perfectly okay with people who had Manziel #1 on their ballot before November 17th.

Feel free to share my research and common sense with other idiots who care to use this dumb ass point.

[The1BigWillie]

Can't we close this thread? It's depressing.

[Institutional Control]

Can't we close this thread? It's depressing.

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

Can't we close this thread? It's depressing.

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

It was over when we dropped the bomb on Hong Kong 

[ZappaCat]

Can't we close this thread? It's depressing.

Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

It was over when we dropped the bomb on Hong Kong 

Forget it. He's rolling.

[michigancat]

I'm not going to be butthurt about Klein not winning, had a shot and blew it.

thats how i feel but it sucks. if k-state won their last two games he would be the winner and we would be playing ND but he and the team were horrible at baylor. if johnny football wasnt in the SEC i think klein would still have a chance but oh well.

That's a very dumb take.  So now we're adding undefeated to the criteria and you dipshits are buying it from the media hook, line & sinker.  Most people that say this is going to vote for someone who lost twice.  Being undefeated certainly wasn't the criteria when Bishop finished 2nd.

Out of the last 20 Heisman winning QBs, going all the way back to Gary Beban in 1967, only 6 of them finished undefeated.  Many of those; Tebow, White, Couch, Weinke, Wuerffel, etc. lost at least one of the last three games before the ballots were due.

I have to hear this stupid rough ridin' talking point from many in the national media too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.  I refuse to hear it here.  Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State and the ESPN hype machine made it clear from the start that if Klein lost he would not win the Heisman and everyone else blindly followed.  In addition to this Johnny Hatecrime beat Alabama giving these same idiots a clean excuse for ignorance.

I'm perfectly okay with people who had Manziel #1 on their ballot before November 17th.

Feel free to share my research and common sense with other idiots who care to use this dumb ass point.

The fact that we're K-State has little to nothing to do with it. We didn't just lose against Baylor, Klein played like absolute dogshit, but doesn't have gaudy stats to overcome it like many of the people you listed did. 

[ArchE_Cat]

I'm not going to be butthurt about Klein not winning, had a shot and blew it.

thats how i feel but it sucks. if k-state won their last two games he would be the winner and we would be playing ND but he and the team were horrible at baylor. if johnny football wasnt in the SEC i think klein would still have a chance but oh well.

That's a very dumb take.  So now we're adding undefeated to the criteria and you dipshits are buying it from the media hook, line & sinker.  Most people that say this is going to vote for someone who lost twice.  Being undefeated certainly wasn't the criteria when Bishop finished 2nd.

Out of the last 20 Heisman winning QBs, going all the way back to Gary Beban in 1967, only 6 of them finished undefeated.  Many of those; Tebow, White, Couch, Weinke, Wuerffel, etc. lost at least one of the last three games before the ballots were due.

I have to hear this stupid rough ridin' talking point from many in the national media too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.  I refuse to hear it here.  Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State and the ESPN hype machine made it clear from the start that if Klein lost he would not win the Heisman and everyone else blindly followed.  In addition to this Johnny Hatecrime beat Alabama giving these same idiots a clean excuse for ignorance.

I'm perfectly okay with people who had Manziel #1 on their ballot before November 17th.

Feel free to share my research and common sense with other idiots who care to use this dumb ass point.

The fact that we're K-State has little to nothing to do with it. We didn't just lose against Baylor, Klein played like absolute dogshit, but doesn't have gaudy stats to overcome it like many of the people you listed did.

tv wants ratings (advertising dollars), people want to watch something exciting or controversial, no one wants to watch efficiency. Johnny running around like a chicken with his head cutoff playing backyard ball is far more watchable than Klein's patience running and selective passing.

[michigancat]

I'm not going to be butthurt about Klein not winning, had a shot and blew it.

thats how i feel but it sucks. if k-state won their last two games he would be the winner and we would be playing ND but he and the team were horrible at baylor. if johnny football wasnt in the SEC i think klein would still have a chance but oh well.

That's a very dumb take.  So now we're adding undefeated to the criteria and you dipshits are buying it from the media hook, line & sinker.  Most people that say this is going to vote for someone who lost twice.  Being undefeated certainly wasn't the criteria when Bishop finished 2nd.

Out of the last 20 Heisman winning QBs, going all the way back to Gary Beban in 1967, only 6 of them finished undefeated.  Many of those; Tebow, White, Couch, Weinke, Wuerffel, etc. lost at least one of the last three games before the ballots were due.

I have to hear this stupid rough ridin' talking point from many in the national media too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.  I refuse to hear it here.  Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State and the ESPN hype machine made it clear from the start that if Klein lost he would not win the Heisman and everyone else blindly followed.  In addition to this Johnny Hatecrime beat Alabama giving these same idiots a clean excuse for ignorance.

I'm perfectly okay with people who had Manziel #1 on their ballot before November 17th.

Feel free to share my research and common sense with other idiots who care to use this dumb ass point.

The fact that we're K-State has little to nothing to do with it. We didn't just lose against Baylor, Klein played like absolute dogshit, but doesn't have gaudy stats to overcome it like many of the people you listed did.

tv wants ratings (advertising dollars), people want to watch something exciting or controversial, no one wants to watch efficiency. Johnny running around like a chicken with his head cutoff playing backyard ball is far more watchable than Klein's patience running and selective passing.

That's fair, but Manziel has much better raw stats (and is comparably efficient). The only rational argument for Klein over Manziel is the performance vs. winning teams, but Heisman voters will never go into that much detail, and even then it's a bit of a stretch.

[ArchE_Cat]

Manziel is comparable in efficiency from a statistical point. He has more "spectacular" plays. Charles Davis said is best by explaining that Collin is so proficient that his highlight plays just looked "run of the mill" for him. Manziel is more drastic in his playing style. Collin's only drastic play was against Baylor, but it was drastic in the wrong direction.

I agree regarding the voters. K-State could have sent out a statistical analysis and 90% of the voters would have thrown it away.

[MakeItRain]

I'm not going to be butthurt about Klein not winning, had a shot and blew it.

thats how i feel but it sucks. if k-state won their last two games he would be the winner and we would be playing ND but he and the team were horrible at baylor. if johnny football wasnt in the SEC i think klein would still have a chance but oh well.

That's a very dumb take.  So now we're adding undefeated to the criteria and you dipshits are buying it from the media hook, line & sinker.  Most people that say this is going to vote for someone who lost twice.  Being undefeated certainly wasn't the criteria when Bishop finished 2nd.

Out of the last 20 Heisman winning QBs, going all the way back to Gary Beban in 1967, only 6 of them finished undefeated.  Many of those; Tebow, White, Couch, Weinke, Wuerffel, etc. lost at least one of the last three games before the ballots were due.

I have to hear this stupid rough ridin' talking point from many in the national media too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.  I refuse to hear it here.  Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State and the ESPN hype machine made it clear from the start that if Klein lost he would not win the Heisman and everyone else blindly followed.  In addition to this Johnny Hatecrime beat Alabama giving these same idiots a clean excuse for ignorance.

I'm perfectly okay with people who had Manziel #1 on their ballot before November 17th.

Feel free to share my research and common sense with other idiots who care to use this dumb ass point.

The fact that we're K-State has little to nothing to do with it. We didn't just lose against Baylor, Klein played like absolute dogshit, but doesn't have gaudy stats to overcome it like many of the people you listed did.

That isn't true at all, like at all.

There were many prominent national media figures that said every single week "It's Klein's to win as long as K-State continues to win."  We heard that week, after week, after week.  It's obvious that Heisman voters listen to the same shows we do and use it to sway their voting.  Fact is that statistically Klein had a better game against Baylor than he did TCU.  That TCU game was the same week that A&M beat Alabama.  If it had anything to do with stats, Klein would have lost his lead that week and maybe a little more against Baylor, but that isn't what happened.

As far as how Klein's numbers stack up historically, there have been some amazing seasons, but there are three QBs that have similar numbers to Klein, if not worse.

Collin Klein 2012- 2490 passing yards, 15 TDs, 7 INT, 156.1 rating, 890 rushing YDs, 22 rushing TDs
Troy Smith 2006- 2542 passing yards, 30 TDs, 6 INT, 161.9 rating, 204 rushing YDs, 1 rushing TDs
Matt Leinart 2004-3322 passing yards, 33 TDs, 6 INT, 156.5 rating, -44 rushing YDs, 0 rushing TDs
Eric Crouch 2001- 1510 passing yards, 7 TDs, 10 INT, 124.3 rating, 1115 rushing YDs, 18 rushing TDs

There are several other Heisman Winners that have similar if not worse numbers than Klein but I didn't want to waste the time to type them out, you can find them here. 
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/heisman.html
I was most surprised by Charlie Ward and Vinnie Testaverde.  I remember Ward being this deadly dual threat, his rushing numbers are  by today's standards.  Vinnie only had 276 attempts.

Klein was done in not by an anti-KSU bias per se, but by many members of the national media still refuse to believe that we are significant.  I mean there are people that don't think this team is a top 10 team.  It is not tuckish or K-StateO to admit to obvious things right in front of your face.

BTW there's more of my research any of you can have to shoot holes in dumb talking points.  The only acceptable answer for voting for Manziel is that he has great numbers and have had them all year.  Like I said before I'm cool with anyone who had Manziel #1 before KSU lost to Baylor.  Of course then I would continue to mock them for letting people tell them how to use their vote because they don't have Tajh Boyd in their top three who also has great dual threat stats.

[puniraptor]

goddamnit, MIR needs a rough ridin' Heisman Ballot.

[kso_FAN]

Great point on Tajh Boyd.

[michigancat]

I'm not going to be butthurt about Klein not winning, had a shot and blew it.

thats how i feel but it sucks. if k-state won their last two games he would be the winner and we would be playing ND but he and the team were horrible at baylor. if johnny football wasnt in the SEC i think klein would still have a chance but oh well.

That's a very dumb take.  So now we're adding undefeated to the criteria and you dipshits are buying it from the media hook, line & sinker.  Most people that say this is going to vote for someone who lost twice.  Being undefeated certainly wasn't the criteria when Bishop finished 2nd.

Out of the last 20 Heisman winning QBs, going all the way back to Gary Beban in 1967, only 6 of them finished undefeated.  Many of those; Tebow, White, Couch, Weinke, Wuerffel, etc. lost at least one of the last three games before the ballots were due.

I have to hear this stupid rough ridin' talking point from many in the national media too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.  I refuse to hear it here.  Klein isn't going to lose the Heisman because he lost to Baylor.  He is going to lose it because he plays for Kansas State and the ESPN hype machine made it clear from the start that if Klein lost he would not win the Heisman and everyone else blindly followed.  In addition to this Johnny Hatecrime beat Alabama giving these same idiots a clean excuse for ignorance.

I'm perfectly okay with people who had Manziel #1 on their ballot before November 17th.

Feel free to share my research and common sense with other idiots who care to use this dumb ass point.

The fact that we're K-State has little to nothing to do with it. We didn't just lose against Baylor, Klein played like absolute dogshit, but doesn't have gaudy stats to overcome it like many of the people you listed did.

That isn't true at all, like at all.

There were many prominent national media figures that said every single week "It's Klein's to win as long as K-State continues to win."  We heard that week, after week, after week.  It's obvious that Heisman voters listen to the same shows we do and use it to sway their voting.  Fact is that statistically Klein had a better game against Baylor than he did TCU.  That TCU game was the same week that A&M beat Alabama.  If it had anything to do with stats, Klein would have lost his lead that week and maybe a little more against Baylor, but that isn't what happened.

As far as how Klein's numbers stack up historically, there have been some amazing seasons, but there are three QBs that have similar numbers to Klein, if not worse.

Collin Klein 2012- 2490 passing yards, 15 TDs, 7 INT, 156.1 rating, 890 rushing YDs, 22 rushing TDs
Troy Smith 2006- 2542 passing yards, 30 TDs, 6 INT, 161.9 rating, 204 rushing YDs, 1 rushing TDs
Matt Leinart 2004-3322 passing yards, 33 TDs, 6 INT, 156.5 rating, -44 rushing YDs, 0 rushing TDs
Eric Crouch 2001- 1510 passing yards, 7 TDs, 10 INT, 124.3 rating, 1115 rushing YDs, 18 rushing TDs

There are several other Heisman Winners that have similar if not worse numbers than Klein but I didn't want to waste the time to type them out, you can find them here. 
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/heisman.html
I was most surprised by Charlie Ward and Vinnie Testaverde.  I remember Ward being this deadly dual threat, his rushing numbers are  by today's standards.  Vinnie only had 276 attempts.

Klein was done in not by an anti-KSU bias per se, but by many members of the national media still refuse to believe that we are significant.  I mean there are people that don't think this team is a top 10 team.  It is not tuckish or K-StateO to admit to obvious things right in front of your face.

BTW there's more of my research any of you can have to shoot holes in dumb talking points.  The only acceptable answer for voting for Manziel is that he has great numbers and have had them all year.  Like I said before I'm cool with anyone who had Manziel #1 before KSU lost to Baylor.  Of course then I would continue to mock them for letting people tell them how to use their vote because they don't have Tajh Boyd in their top three who also has great dual threat stats.

That's great research that doesn't contradict anything I said. It also doesn't present an argument in favor of Klein over Manziel. But it's still great, you did a very nice job.

[MadCat]

goddamnit, MIR needs a rough ridin' Heisman Ballot.

He needs a "Heisman Voters Only" website to educate them.

[MakeItRain]

That's great research that doesn't contradict anything I said. It also doesn't present an argument in favor of Klein over Manziel. But it's still great, you did a very nice job.

I never attempted to present Klein over Manziel, I am pissed about people who changed their vote after he had a game in which he threw three touchdown passes.  I'm pissed because for two decades the narrative for how you should vote has changed from season to season sometimes within the season based on who ESPN wants to push.  If Collin Klein was #1 on your ballot on November 18th, he should have stayed there.  I'm not sure how I would have voted if I was a media member, I'm biased.  I know for a fact that I wouldn't have had any combination of Teo, Manziel, and Klein in my top three.  I also know that Bishop would have been 1 in 1998 and Sproles would have been 1 in 2003.  If either of them would have won, I would be less pissed about getting robbed again and I would be more likely in this thread to say my 2012 vote would have been for Boyd, Marcus Mariota, Jarvis Jones, Jdaveon Clowney, Jordan Lynch, or Terrance Williams.

The people I'm railing against are the same people who would vote for Marquise Lee but don't know who Williams is.

[420seriouscat69]

MIR's really knocked this thread out of the mother rough ridin' park.

[SdK]

MIR's really knocked this thread out of the mother rough ridin' park.

Inglorious bastards was my first thought.

[ChiComCat]

My old man opinion: Its more about highlight plays and youtube videos anymore than actual substance.  People see highlights of Manziel beating 'Bama or making a ridiculous play.  ESPN doesn't show his 3 pick games (they do show Klein's because we were #1).  Nobody watches a full K-state game to see Klein grind down a defense, taking shots left and right.  I doubt most voters have seen a full game of Manziel's or Klein's, so this is what we get.

[michigancat]

That's great research that doesn't contradict anything I said. It also doesn't present an argument in favor of Klein over Manziel. But it's still great, you did a very nice job.

I never attempted to present Klein over Manziel, I am pissed about people who changed their vote after he had a game in which he threw three touchdown passes.  I'm pissed because for two decades the narrative for how you should vote has changed from season to season sometimes within the season based on who ESPN wants to push.  If Collin Klein was #1 on your ballot on November 18th, he should have stayed there.  I'm not sure how I would have voted if I was a media member, I'm biased.  I know for a fact that I wouldn't have had any combination of Teo, Manziel, and Klein in my top three.  I also know that Bishop would have been 1 in 1998 and Sproles would have been 1 in 2003.  If either of them would have won, I would be less pissed about getting robbed again and I would be more likely in this thread to say my 2012 vote would have been for Boyd, Marcus Mariota, Jarvis Jones, Jdaveon Clowney, Jordan Lynch, or Terrance Williams.

The people I'm railing against are the same people who would vote for Marquise Lee but don't know who Williams is.

I don't have any issue with any that once you're past your KSU tiny pee-pee syndrome. I mean, it isn't like the people you listed all came from schools that the media hates or isn't sexy or whatever the reason people think the media hates KSU, (yes, I know some did).

You're right that the Heisman is an annual groupthink bonanza, and Manziel just had a perfect groupthink storm this year.

[Stevesie60]

I'm okay with Manziel winning the Heisman because it is absolutely about how the media portrays it. Your team's success has just as much to do with your abilities, wins at the end of the year matter more, etc. But Klein should be 1st team All-American QB. I will stand by that.