Lowery Interview on 1350

[OregonSmock]

Meh . . . Frank was pissing up the punch bowl badly.

Multiple guys were going to quit, top instate guys who were seriously considering K-State did not go or were ultimately not going to go to K-State because of . . . Frank.

Complete implosion was clearly on the horizon.

Interesting spin, sonoftuckjones. 

[Cire]

Meh . . . Frank was pissing up the punch bowl badly.

Multiple guys were going to quit, top instate guys who were seriously considering K-State did not go or were ultimately not going to go to K-State because of . . . Frank.

Complete implosion was clearly on the horizon.

Interesting spin, sonoftuckjones. 

[Katpappy]

Really? Touche, didn't check that. Of course if we're talking the last 5 years, the talent level wasn't at Illinois (Thanks to Weber). What's his average offensive efficiency in his 9 year tenure at Illinois?

Illinois had 9 top 100 players on the roster last year. (Thanks to Jerrance Howard). Weberized gang......Weberized.

So what the eff is up with you guys.  Some of you are telling us how BW can't recuit, then others are saying the guy has top talent and can't get it done.  Please get your rough ridin' stories straight, so we may believe there is some credence to your rants. 

oscar Weber can't recruit himself.  When he gets a recruiting assistant who can recruit (Howard) he still can't deliver with talent.  Stories straight.

So all the credit goes too the AC's.  I'm just wondering who in the eff hired them.  Could it be the same guy that can't recuit here for some god foresaking reason.   

[catzacker]

Meh . . . Frank was pissing up the punch bowl badly.

Multiple guys were going to quit, top instate guys who were seriously considering K-State did not go or were ultimately not going to go to K-State because of . . . Frank.

Complete implosion was clearly on the horizon.

Interesting spin, sonoftuckjones.

 

i have a feeling this thread is now heading places.....

[Dr Rick Daris]

the frank destroying the program stuff immediately started coming out right after frank made it known to everyone within earshot that he wouldn't be coming back to kstate regardless and various people started trying to pump up underwood for the job. from there it just got a life of it's own and now people take it as fact, which is sad and lazy.

[michigancat]

Meh . . . Frank was pissing up the punch bowl badly.

Multiple guys were going to quit, top instate guys who were seriously considering K-State did not go or were ultimately not going to go to K-State because of . . . Frank.

Complete implosion was clearly on the horizon.

I don't disagree with frank's trajectory, however I disagree with the notion that oscar weber is good for ksu basketball.  we've simply adjusted the trajectory slightly.

I completely disagree with the trajectory.  The both of you spent 10 months bitching about Frank and the program he was running and in an off year he took a team to the third round of the NCAA tournament.  You can't spend as much time teeth knashing as much as you two did and then not acknowledge when the season was over that the program exceeded your expectations.  There was no indication of any implosion before Currie and his lackies started the BS after Frank left.  At 10am on March 17th people were excited at the possibility of KSU knocking off a 2 loss team, a week later the same people were talking about how the program was a mess.

I feel like I'm going to spend the rest of my natural life stopping people from revising the last few months of Frank Martin's time at K-State.  The players were planning a mutiny that the AD knew about.  Despite this the three best players on the team, who were all going to leave, were playing the best basketball of their lives and the AD was going to extend the coach even though he thought half the roster was leaving.

bullshit

Great post. The irony of the "player mutiny" is that we let Frank go to avoid it and the player on the roster that is by far the most important piece of our long-term success is probably leaving.

[Mr Bread]

Really? Touche, didn't check that. Of course if we're talking the last 5 years, the talent level wasn't at Illinois (Thanks to Weber). What's his average offensive efficiency in his 9 year tenure at Illinois?

Illinois had 9 top 100 players on the roster last year. (Thanks to Jerrance Howard). Weberized gang......Weberized.

So what the eff is up with you guys.  Some of you are telling us how BW can't recuit, then others are saying the guy has top talent and can't get it done.  Please get your rough ridin' stories straight, so we may believe there is some credence to your rants. 

Both are true.  Bubbles' recruiting pre-Jerrance Howard was f-ing atrocious.  When JH came on board, he managed to bring in three straight (2009-2011) very strong classes.  Optimism was high and Weber proceeded to choke and fail.  The one immutable trait that Weber-recruited teams have undeniably had both pre and post JH is that they are mentally weak.  Collectively pussies outside of Chester Frazier.  Without an extraordinary leader or leaders on the team who happen to naturally be bad asses, they take on his personality.  Dickless.  Say good bye to tough, intimidating teams and hello to elite squadrons of Ken dolls.  So very smooth down there.         

[threadkiller]

So all the credit goes to the AC's.  I'm just wondering who in the eff hired them.  Could it be the same guy that can't recuit here for some god foresaking reason. 

Yes.  That is the hope.  That oscar Weber can recruit an assistant (or two) to deliver talent for him.  He's not going to be the draw for a 17/18 y.o. recruit.  You don't have to watch/listen to him for long to see that.  I can see a good recruiting assistant being able to sell him though.  Get the kid and let "Aww shucks" oscar sell the parents that he'll take care of their boys. 

Frank sold himself.  Had his own connections.  Got some players regarless of who was on his staff.  I don't see much of that potential with oscar Weber. 

[Fuktard]

I completely disagree with the trajectory.  The both of you spent 10 months bitching about Frank and the program he was running and in an off year he took a team to the third round of the NCAA tournament.  You can't spend as much time teeth knashing as much as you two did and then not acknowledge when the season was over that the program exceeded your expectations.  There was no indication of any implosion before Currie and his lackies started the BS after Frank left.  At 10am on March 17th people were excited at the possibility of KSU knocking off a 2 loss team, a week later the same people were talking about how the program was a mess.

I feel like I'm going to spend the rest of my natural life stopping people from revising the last few months of Frank Martin's time at K-State.  The players were planning a mutiny that the AD knew about.  Despite this the three best players on the team, who were all going to leave, were playing the best basketball of their lives and the AD was going to extend the coach even though he thought half the roster was leaving.

bullshit

I agree with this and I don't think this talking point (Frank destroying program) has any real credibility. I really don't have anything against Frank and will always look back on his 5 years as a great time for K-State basketball.

I think you are wrong.  All facts point to this being the case.  You have to suspend all logic to think Frank left for SC just because he didn't like Currie.

[kso_FAN]

I think you are wrong.  All facts point to this being the case.  You have to suspend all logic to think Frank left for SC just because he didn't like Currie.

Clearly something caused Frank to bolt and something caused Currie to let him go. There have been tons of things tossed around here. There may or not be some truth to any/all of them, that's hard to tell. Its very hard to call anything that has come out "a fact". There may be something to the mutinany talk, but like any of the stuff we've heard since the split, its hard to tell how much truth there is to it. JMHO.

[steve dave]

Clearly something caused Frank to bolt and something caused Currie to let him go. There have been tons of things tossed around here. There may or not be some truth to any/all of them, that's hard to tell. Its very hard to call anything that has come out "a fact". There may be something to the mutinany talk, but like any of the stuff we've heard since the split, its hard to tell how much truth there is to it. JMHO.

good post _FAN

[catzacker]

Meh . . . Frank was pissing up the punch bowl badly.

Multiple guys were going to quit, top instate guys who were seriously considering K-State did not go or were ultimately not going to go to K-State because of . . . Frank.

Complete implosion was clearly on the horizon.

I don't disagree with frank's trajectory, however I disagree with the notion that oscar weber is good for ksu basketball.  we've simply adjusted the trajectory slightly.

I completely disagree with the trajectory.  The both of you spent 10 months bitching about Frank and the program he was running and in an off year he took a team to the third round of the NCAA tournament.  You can't spend as much time teeth knashing as much as you two did and then not acknowledge when the season was over that the program exceeded your expectations.  There was no indication of any implosion before Currie and his lackies started the BS after Frank left.  At 10am on March 17th people were excited at the possibility of KSU knocking off a 2 loss team, a week later the same people were talking about how the program was a mess.

I feel like I'm going to spend the rest of my natural life stopping people from revising the last few months of Frank Martin's time at K-State.  The players were planning a mutiny that the AD knew about.  Despite this the three best players on the team, who were all going to leave, were playing the best basketball of their lives and the AD was going to extend the coach even though he thought half the roster was leaving.

bullshit

I should have explained myself more.  I don’t think there was going to be a player mutiny if he stayed, sans the normal franking and will crying himself to sleep at night somewhere else.  Really, it’s just a personal opinion based on his recruiting, which I didn’t feel was going to be able to withstand the (a) franking and (b) the expectations.  Maybe trajectory is the wrong word.  I dunno.  I’m not on the “everyone was leaving because of frank” train nor do I think it was a mess before he left.   

[Underdog Wildcat]

Weber was the lead recruiter for Brandon Paul, a consensus 4* from the Chicago area who was the Illini's best player this past year.

"Today Paul welcomed a very important visitor come to his campus, that being Illinois Head Coach oscar Weber. “He’s talked a lot this summer about what I need to work on, and how well I played,” Paul stated. “Coach Weber is the guy that did most of my recruitment, but I do talk to Coach Price and Coach Howard from time to time.”

http://illinois.scout.com/2/789317.html


So it's not like Weber is this completely worthless numbnuts that so many of want to believe or have been convinced that he is.

There's no doubt Howard would be a tremendous addition to the KSU staff, and would be a huge supplement in the recruiting department, BUT Weber has accomplished some things on his own, probably couldn't call it fantastic, but it is what it is.

Would love to see Howard and some sort of package deal(I'm talking at least a 4*) complete the rest of our staff. Here's to hoping.

[yosh]

So it's not like Weber is this completely worthless numbnuts that so many of want to believe or have been convinced that he is.

You mean this isn't a guy who is terrible at: recruiting, x&o, motivation, development and conditioning?  Are you sure he didn't just manage a 30 year career in college basketball based on his lawn mowing skills?  You can't be serious UW.  As I understand it, he is literally good at nothing.   

[Mr Bread]

More money, geographically closer to his recruiting connections and feeling disrespected/underappreciated by Curry seem like solid reasons when combined.  He didn't walk away from Chapel Hill or Lawrence.  Martin seems like the kind of guy who would believe he could succeed at South Carolina.     

I completely disagree with the trajectory.  The both of you spent 10 months bitching about Frank and the program he was running and in an off year he took a team to the third round of the NCAA tournament.  You can't spend as much time teeth knashing as much as you two did and then not acknowledge when the season was over that the program exceeded your expectations.  There was no indication of any implosion before Currie and his lackies started the BS after Frank left.  At 10am on March 17th people were excited at the possibility of KSU knocking off a 2 loss team, a week later the same people were talking about how the program was a mess.

I feel like I'm going to spend the rest of my natural life stopping people from revising the last few months of Frank Martin's time at K-State.  The players were planning a mutiny that the AD knew about.  Despite this the three best players on the team, who were all going to leave, were playing the best basketball of their lives and the AD was going to extend the coach even though he thought half the roster was leaving.

bullshit

I agree with this and I don't think this talking point (Frank destroying program) has any real credibility. I really don't have anything against Frank and will always look back on his 5 years as a great time for K-State basketball.

I think you are wrong.  All facts point to this being the case.  You have to suspend all logic to think Frank left for SC just because he didn't like Currie.

[LickNeckey]

he is good at handing out sandwiches, passing out chicken nuggets, couponing, mowing and running previously sucesful programs into the ground.

for fucks sake pay attention

[Underdog Wildcat]

So it's not like Weber is this completely worthless numbnuts that so many of want to believe or have been convinced that he is.

You mean this isn't a guy who is terrible at: recruiting, x&o, motivation, development and conditioning?  Are you sure he didn't just manage a 30 year career in college basketball based on his lawn mowing skills?  You can't be serious UW.  As I understand it, he is literally good at nothing.   

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

I'm just going to hang in there and hope for the best for KSU basketball.

[Dr Rick Daris]

I completely disagree with the trajectory.  The both of you spent 10 months bitching about Frank and the program he was running and in an off year he took a team to the third round of the NCAA tournament.  You can't spend as much time teeth knashing as much as you two did and then not acknowledge when the season was over that the program exceeded your expectations.  There was no indication of any implosion before Currie and his lackies started the BS after Frank left.  At 10am on March 17th people were excited at the possibility of KSU knocking off a 2 loss team, a week later the same people were talking about how the program was a mess.

I feel like I'm going to spend the rest of my natural life stopping people from revising the last few months of Frank Martin's time at K-State.  The players were planning a mutiny that the AD knew about.  Despite this the three best players on the team, who were all going to leave, were playing the best basketball of their lives and the AD was going to extend the coach even though he thought half the roster was leaving.

bullshit

I agree with this and I don't think this talking point (Frank destroying program) has any real credibility. I really don't have anything against Frank and will always look back on his 5 years as a great time for K-State basketball.

I think you are wrong.  All facts point to this being the case.  You have to suspend all logic to think Frank left for SC just because he didn't like Currie.

please list all known facts

[michigancat]

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

Do we really have to go deeper than his win/loss record?

[kso_FAN]

So it's not like Weber is this completely worthless numbnuts that so many of want to believe or have been convinced that he is.

There's no doubt Howard would be a tremendous addition to the KSU staff, and would be a huge supplement in the recruiting department, BUT Weber has accomplished some things on his own, probably couldn't call it fantastic, but it is what it is.

Would love to see Howard and some sort of package deal(I'm talking at least a 4*) complete the rest of our staff. Here's to hoping.

I agree with all of that, but no amount of posting at this point is going to change minds.

Some minds may change, but only when/if a) Howard is on staff b) Weber and staff start landing some commits from decent talent. Even that is likely not enough.

At this point IMHO the risk of hiring Weber is not much different than if we had hired a D1 assistant that is known as a recruiter because I think Weber and his staff have a decent enough recruiting resume. The key for Weber is recruiting just as it would be for any other coach.

Beyond that its just as likely that Weber can learn from what failed him at Illinois (especially compared to what was successful at So Illinois) as it is that an assistant with no experience would be able to come in and sustain this program. Both bring risk, but as long as a coach recruits well enough that should they fail the talent they leave in the program leaves the next coach a chance to succeed it really doesn't matter to me. The fact that Weber has had some successful coaching experience is a plus for him, just as much as the failures he had at points in his career are a concern for me. Again, JMHO.

[yosh]

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

Do we really have to go deeper than his win/loss record?

313-155?  Obviously.

[michigancat]

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

Do we really have to go deeper than his win/loss record?

313-155?  Obviously.

[WillieWatanabe]

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

Do we really have to go deeper than his win/loss record?

313-155?  Obviously.

[Mr Bread]

Below .500 in conference and one NCAA victory in his final six seasons without the Bill Self booster seat?  When Weber started bowling without the bumpers, Illinois basketball sucked. 

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

Do we really have to go deeper than his win/loss record?

313-155?  Obviously.

[yosh]

you dug deeper.

Below .500 in conference and one NCAA victory in his final six seasons without the Bill Self booster seat?  When Weber started bowling without the bumpers, Illinois basketball sucked. 

People believe what they want to believe.

For better or worse, most folks already had their mind made up about Weber without really digging deeper and looking at all the available info.

Do we really have to go deeper than his win/loss record?

313-155?  Obviously.