Woolbury? Asbridge? Tough to decide...

[ChiComCat]

_FAN!

YOU KNOW ME. You know me.

I really tried to recover and approach Weber as positive as I could. I have a 6 sheet excel file breaking down his tenure as a head coach.

The problem was the more I looked, the worse it got.

Honestly, if we were getting Weber straight from Southern Illinois everyone would be excited; he had a fun team that played fast. I'm afraid Big 10 basketball and SLTH style has permeated his being though.

Sad really.

OMG, CURRIE HAD THE WRONG CHARTS!

[naturalselection]

Welp.  I as hanging around kind of hoping _FAN could make me feel a little better about all of this.  fml

[CHONGS]

THERE IS NO GOD

[kso_FAN]

Sorry. 

[0.42]

Sorry. 

Oh boy. I said on my podcast with KK today that I'd be willing to give Weber a chance, albeit very tentatively. I kinda want to revise that now.

[kso_FAN]

Sorry. 

Oh boy. I said on my podcast with KK today that I'd be willing to give Weber a chance, albeit very tentatively. I kinda want to revise that now.

Honestly, as time goes along, I will give him a "chance".

I will continue to watch games, break down games, etc.

The issue is I think we'll probably have Asbury-ish success.

Postseason more often than not.

NITs more often than NCAAs.

And unless he pulls a fiasco like he did last year (not unlikely), Weber will hang around as long as Currie is here.

[naturalselection]

Weber will hang around as long as Currie is here.

 

Finally a ray of hope!!

[SuperG]

_FAN!

YOU KNOW ME. You know me.

I really tried to recover and approach Weber as positive as I could. I have a 6 sheet excel file breaking down his tenure as a head coach.

The problem was the more I looked, the worse it got.

Honestly, if we were getting Weber straight from Southern Illinois everyone would be excited; he had a fun team that played fast. I'm afraid Big 10 basketball and SLTH style has permeated his being though.

Sad really.

OMG, CURRIE HAD THE WRONG CHARTS!

There weren't any charts or graphs at all. Currie was stroking it to the free Skinamax... over and over again.   

[kso_FAN]

OMG, CURRIE HAD THE WRONG CHARTS!

Well, at the very least, I think its pretty clear that Currie doesn't use kenpom.

[GoodForAnother]

Sorry. 

To your credit, it's by far the most well-articulated anti-Weber post I've seen.

[catzacker]

there is hope.  there's a lot of evidence to support someone who makes me uncomfortable is going to lose and it's going to be a slow, boring death.  But, like, he could learn.  He could get a recruiter on staff.  He could change for the better as a coach.  Maybe he gets back to the things that worked at SIU w/ Lowery.  I dunno.  Those are all things that could happen.  And if they did, KSU would be successful.  I mean, we f'ing deserve something, don't we?  We rough ridin' backed a Frank Martin with everything we had even when everyone called us dumbsticks.  I dunno.  People still believe in God and no one's seen him/her.  Maybe I just haven't reached the acceptance part of grieving.

[SuperG]

Here's the deal oscar, John, and whoever else in the department is out there is reading this:

If Weber would hire _Fan as a analyst/strategist, and start working to correct all of the disturbing tendencies developed at Illinois, I'll give this train-wreck an honest chance.

Moneycatsketball.

[kougar24]

_FAN, why don't you drop some knowledge on those rationalizing powertards? You are far too silent over yonder.

[FHSU92]

What's sad is Wooly never had a chance to live it up like BW has, yet he just might be able to out coach him.

[Panjandrum]

_FAN!

YOU KNOW ME. You know me.

I really tried to recover and approach Weber as positive as I could. I have a 6 sheet excel file breaking down his tenure as a head coach.

The problem was the more I looked, the worse it got.

Honestly, if we were getting Weber straight from Southern Illinois everyone would be excited; he had a fun team that played fast. I'm afraid Big 10 basketball and SLTH style has permeated his being though.

Sad really.

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

[GoodForAnother]

_FAN!

YOU KNOW ME. You know me.

I really tried to recover and approach Weber as positive as I could. I have a 6 sheet excel file breaking down his tenure as a head coach.

The problem was the more I looked, the worse it got.

Honestly, if we were getting Weber straight from Southern Illinois everyone would be excited; he had a fun team that played fast. I'm afraid Big 10 basketball and SLTH style has permeated his being though.

Sad really.

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

This is a good post. I noted the same thing re: Illinois yesterday after reading Weber's history on wiki. They're basically an indentical program to KSU all-time but have KU-like expectations.

[kso_FAN]

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

Pan, I will admit I've had some of these thoughts as well, I'm just concerned that once you are 55 years old change can be tough. No doubt he will definitely need to change how he did things at Illinois, we'll see if he can do that here. I agree that Lowry is not a bad hire, I think bad head coaches can (and often are) really good assistants. I just hope he hasn't lost any recruiting credibility the last few years with his terrible teams at SoIll. Weber must find some solid recruiters to fill his last two spots, he doesn't need coaching help at this point. Young guys with energy that can recruit, either his old stomping grounds in Illinois or the south/Texas.

[ZmoneyKSU]

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

Pan, I will admit I've had some of these thoughts as well, I'm just concerned that once you are 55 years old change can be tough. No doubt he will definitely need to change how he did things at Illinois, we'll see if he can do that here. I agree that Lowry is not a bad hire, I think bad head coaches can (and often are) really good assistants. I just hope he hasn't lost any recruiting credibility the last few years with his terrible teams at SoIll. Weber must find some solid recruiters to fill his last two spots, he doesn't need coaching help at this point. Young guys with energy that can recruit, either his old stomping grounds in Illinois or the south/Texas.

Yea, but unfortunately he's gonna be coaching under a shadow here too, and have the problem that our coach didn't chose to leave us, he was run off.  That's going to cause some to have a hard time accepting him.  As soon as anything goes wrong he's going to have to deal with the Frank comparisons.

I will say right now, if we go to the championship game next year, I will be fine fully jumping on board with Weber, LOL.

[kso_FAN]

Yea, but unfortunately he's gonna be coaching under a shadow here too, and have the problem that our coach didn't chose to leave us, he was run off.  That's going to cause some to have a hard time accepting him.  As soon as anything goes wrong he's going to have to deal with the Frank comparisons.

I will say right now, if we go to the championship game next year, I will be fine fully jumping on board with Weber, LOL.

No doubt about that. Weber will never be Frank and that will absolutely hurt him with many fans when he starts struggling.

[kso_FAN]

Someone on GP made the comparison for Weber to Tubby Smith and Kentucky/Minnesota. That's pretty good.

[ChiComCat]

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

Pan, I will admit I've had some of these thoughts as well, I'm just concerned that once you are 55 years old change can be tough. No doubt he will definitely need to change how he did things at Illinois, we'll see if he can do that here. I agree that Lowry is not a bad hire, I think bad head coaches can (and often are) really good assistants. I just hope he hasn't lost any recruiting credibility the last few years with his terrible teams at SoIll. Weber must find some solid recruiters to fill his last two spots, he doesn't need coaching help at this point. Young guys with energy that can recruit, either his old stomping grounds in Illinois or the south/Texas.

I'm more worried about the necessary change because he seemed so unaware of it in the press conference.  He thinks he was fired for having 6 freshman and losing close games one season.

[Cartierfor3]

Someone on GP made the comparison for Weber to Tubby Smith and Kentucky/Minnesota. That's pretty good.

This was the first thing i thought of. 

[SdK]

Someone on GP made the comparison for Weber to Tubby Smith and Kentucky/Minnesota. That's pretty good.

I'd rather have had Pitino than Frank.

[GoodForAnother]

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

Pan, I will admit I've had some of these thoughts as well, I'm just concerned that once you are 55 years old change can be tough. No doubt he will definitely need to change how he did things at Illinois, we'll see if he can do that here. I agree that Lowry is not a bad hire, I think bad head coaches can (and often are) really good assistants. I just hope he hasn't lost any recruiting credibility the last few years with his terrible teams at SoIll. Weber must find some solid recruiters to fill his last two spots, he doesn't need coaching help at this point. Young guys with energy that can recruit, either his old stomping grounds in Illinois or the south/Texas.

I'm more worried about the necessary change because he seemed so unaware of it in the press conference.  He thinks he was fired for having 6 freshman and losing close games one season.

Yeah, I will 100% agree with this.  I'd be much less concerned if he came out and said, "we lost our culture of toughness at UofI, and that's something I intend to bring back," etc.  The bottom line is that if he runs things exactly like he did at UofI, we will fail, there's no doubt.  But if he can change, we might have a shot.

[Pete]

Weber admitted after the Purdue loss this year that he changed the way he coached.  He knew he was going to get fired, so he let a couple of things slip about how they had a culture of toughness at SIU, and he tried to please people too much at Illinois.  He said if he could go back and do it all over again, he would have done it the way he did at SIU.

I'm not going to come out and say that Weber is in the middle of some post-epiphany reinvention of himself, but I think we are a much more 'comfortable' environment than Illinois.  We don't have their expectations, which were already completely unrealistic before Self came.  Illinois is a lot like Mizzou in the sense that they think they're this destination job, but when you compare them to the K-States of the world, historical success is pretty much even across the board.  In fact, in terms of NCAA tournament success, KSU ties or beats them in all but one category (Final Fours), and oddly enough, it was Weber that put them ahead of us, and he's the only one that ever took them to a title game.

Anyway, I think if you go back and look at his tenure, and remove the statistical aspects, you see a guy that even at the height of his game there was being compared and deemed less than Self.  Which is totally justified, but he did better than Self in his first three years, and they still loved Bill more.  I think it screwed with him.  He lived in Self's shadow for nine years, and I think it changed him.

My hope is that he comes in here with Lowery (which is a hire that I approve of, actually), and they regain that approach they took at SIU where they were tough defenders and rebounders that pushed the ball up the floor.  The roster is here for that.  There's no need to do what he did at Illinois because, well, there's plenty of evidence that it didn't work.  If he didn't learn from it, he deserves to be canned from another high major job.

Pan, I will admit I've had some of these thoughts as well, I'm just concerned that once you are 55 years old change can be tough. No doubt he will definitely need to change how he did things at Illinois, we'll see if he can do that here. I agree that Lowry is not a bad hire, I think bad head coaches can (and often are) really good assistants. I just hope he hasn't lost any recruiting credibility the last few years with his terrible teams at SoIll. Weber must find some solid recruiters to fill his last two spots, he doesn't need coaching help at this point. Young guys with energy that can recruit, either his old stomping grounds in Illinois or the south/Texas.

I'm more worried about the necessary change because he seemed so unaware of it in the press conference.  He thinks he was fired for having 6 freshman and losing close games one season.

Yeah, I will 100% agree with this.  I'd be much less concerned if he came out and said, "we lost our culture of toughness at UofI, and that's something I intend to bring back," etc.  The bottom line is that if he runs things exactly like he did at UofI, we will fail, there's no doubt.  But if he can change, we might have a shot.

The Illinois fans seemed to consistently criticize Weber for what they perceived as "excuse making."

He always has someone else to blame.