George Zimmerman is a piece of crap

[sys]

I take my answer back.

i love this about you.  i don't think many posters are capable of abandoning a position they'd just argued publicly, at least not so quickly.  i know i can't.

[michigancat]

I take my answer back.

i love this about you.  i don't think many posters are capable of abandoning a position they'd just argued publicly, at least not so quickly.  i know i can't.

I was vacuuming, which cleared my head. I doubt many posters here vacuum, they're mostly disgusting ballcap wearing slobs.

[DQ12]

I take my answer back.

i love this about you.  i don't think many posters are capable of abandoning a position they'd just argued publicly, at least not so quickly.  i know i can't.

Yes this is a very admirable quality to have.

[sys]

I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.

yeah, but it had already became a story before the half-hispanic element came up.  neither the public nor the media is capable of about-facing and admitting that they no longer cared about how some kid got killed.  besides, zimmerman's still half-white (and dougie's right, the ethnicity of his surname does matter).

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I don't think it complicates anything.

well lets, be honest, you're kinda Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) about a small number of things (niggardly, this).  i mean it was just three posts ago you were talking about how of course the reason we're talking about this because of race, and then almost in the same breath you claim to think it doesn't matter (to the story) if zimmerman is white or not.

 

Yeah, I take my answer back. I don't think it complicates things, though, I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.

I'm still right about niggardly, though.

I don't think he would have been arrested any sooner simply because it's the law in Florida, like it or not, that you can kill someone defending yourself. I think he may have been free longer without the pressure of the press whipping up the racist elements of the event.  Would NBC have edited the 911 call to make an Hispanic seem racist? No.

[michigancat]

I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.

yeah, but it had already became a story before the half-hispanic element came up.  neither the public nor the media is capable of about-facing and admitting that they no longer cared about how some kid got killed.  besides, zimmerman's still half-white (and dougie's right, the ethnicity of his surname does matter).

It only became a major story mainly because it took several months to arrest him. I'm saying I don't think the police half-ass the investigation if Zimmerman has a hispanic name.

I'm not sure where you're going with the half-hispanic thing and the media - why is an "about-face" required? How does the knowledge that his mom hispanic mean they don't care about how some kid got killed?

[michigancat]

I don't think it complicates anything.

well lets, be honest, you're kinda Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) about a small number of things (niggardly, this).  i mean it was just three posts ago you were talking about how of course the reason we're talking about this because of race, and then almost in the same breath you claim to think it doesn't matter (to the story) if zimmerman is white or not.

 

Yeah, I take my answer back. I don't think it complicates things, though, I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.

I'm still right about niggardly, though.

I don't think he would have been arrested any sooner simply because it's the law in Florida, like it or not, that you can kill someone defending yourself. I think he may have been free longer without the pressure of the press whipping up the racist elements of the event.  Would NBC have edited the 911 call to make an Hispanic seem racist? No.

In that case, it's still a huge racial issue because of the police/law.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

there is every indication that the prosecution is aggressively attempting to confuse this issue, which is troubling as a matter of due process.

pretty sure the judge, not the prosecution or the defense, has the responsibility to instruct the jury regarding the law, and to clarify if they suffer from any confusion.

Of course this is the judge's job. But that doesn't give the prosecution license to attempt to confuse the jurors. Like it or not, in our criminal justice system, we believe so strongly in preventing wrongful convictions that we hold the state to a higher standard. For the prosecution, it is not supposed to be about winning or losing, but about seeing justice fairly administered. Of course, it is naive to think that many, or any, prosecutors actually believe this. Anyway, this is getting off point.

[sys]

like, you said you don't think it complicates the issue, it makes it simpler.  because it never would have been a story if he was hispanic (forget the half part for now, let's just deal in hypotheticals)  so i tried to rebut that by saying it complicates the story rather than makes it simpler because it already became a story with the assumption that he was anglo (anglo with a german name, whatever, our ethnic labels were never meant to be accurate) and they were not going to decide to not care (the public) or to not cover (the media) the story after they'd already started.

"never mind, never mind, zimmerman's latino.  squirrel!"

[michigancat]

like, you said you don't think it complicates the issue, it makes it simpler.  because it never would have been a story if he was hispanic (forget the half part for now, let's just deal in hypotheticals)  so i tried to rebut that by saying it complicates the story rather than makes it simpler because it already became a story with the assumption that he was anglo (anglo with a german name, whatever, our ethnic labels were never meant to be accurate) and they were not going to decide to not care (the public) or to not cover (the media) the story after they'd already started.

"never mind, never mind, zimmerman's latino.  squirrel!"

I don't think the fact that the shooter was thought to be 100% pure Aryan was the only reason this was a story.

[sys]

I don't think the fact that the shooter was thought to be 100% pure Aryan was the only reason this was a story.

a necessary, but not sufficient, condition.  i think we agree on that.

[michigancat]

I don't think the fact that the shooter was thought to be 100% pure Aryan was the only reason this was a story.

a necessary, but not sufficient, condition.  i think we agree on that.

I disagree that it is necessary.

[sys]

I disagree that it is necessary.

it's contrarian full circle!

[star seed 7]

I disagree that it is necessary.

it's contrarian full circle!

 

[michigancat]

I disagree that it is necessary.

it's contrarian full circle!

Racism on the part of the police department is still a major story.

[DQ12]

i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore.  in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.

[michigancat]

i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore.  in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.

Yeah, people are talking about his motivations for killing Trayvon.

[DQ12]

i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore.  in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.

Yeah, people are talking about his motivations for killing Trayvon.

Right, but even if Zimmerman was motivated by race, why do we care so much about this race motivated murder in particular?  Not every murder motivated by race receives this kind of high profile attention.  Maybe it should, but it doesn't.  Which I think is why I was having a hard time grasping why this one in particular was so compelling on the national level. 

Is it just residual interest from the original "not charging Zimmerman" issue?   Kind of a "well this story captured our attention last summer so we're going to see this out" kind of thing?

[felix rex]

People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?

I don't think the issue is that it's a "nice" picture. It's that the picture was of him as a child, while zimmerman's picture was a mugshot from a previous arrest. That's pretty weird.

Those weren't the only two goddam pictures being used.

This reminds me of whole New Orleans Lootie thing.

[michigancat]

i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore.  in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.

Yeah, people are talking about his motivations for killing Trayvon.

Right, but even if Zimmerman was motivated by race, why do we care so much about this race motivated murder in particular?  Not every murder motivated by race receives this kind of high profile attention.  Maybe it should, but it doesn't.  Which I think is why I was having a hard time grasping why this one in particular was so compelling on the national level. 

Is it just residual interest from the original "not charging Zimmerman" issue?   Kind of a "well this story captured our attention last summer so we're going to see this out" kind of thing?

All of the above plus the attention to the stand your ground law, the 911 call, the somewhat shaky evidence for the prosecution. On top of that, it really isn't normal for someone walking down the street to be confronted and murdered by a stranger (of any race). Do you honestly not find this case particularly unique or interesting?

[felix rex]

I mean, what if the defense proves that Trayvon was quarter Jewish or something. What a twist that would be!

[star seed 7]

how often are neighborhood watch people confronted and beaten?   

[OregonSmock]

Yeah i guess it's about race.  Just seems odd.

It's about more than race.  The community of Sanford had to basically convince the police department to look into the situation further.  The police didn't make an arrest for months, and the public started getting pissed.  An unarmed teenager was killed in the middle of the night by another civilian, and people wanted justice. 

[steve dave]

I mean, what if the defense proves that Trayvon was quarter Jewish or something. What a twist that would be!

lol

[Cire]

It's a story because zimmerman killed a guy and seemingly was not seriously investigated.