Obama sez No to Keystone

[LickNeckey]

shut the front door.

so FSD has been lying this whole time 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

So, will this pipeline make oil more expensive or not?  I think you can handle the spill issue by making Keystone post a bond or be liable for any damages caused by a spill.

cheaper for everyone

Ok.  So the reports that it will actually raise some prices in the midwest are false?

No. The reason they're building a $7 billion pipeline across nearly 2/3rds of the continent is to have it refined for export in Texas. If the goal was to sell this oil only in the U.S. they would build a pipeline to refineries in the Midwest, which would be much cheaper to do.

yeah, it's a devious plan to bypass all those midwest refineries with limitless capacity to refine oil.  what they really want to send oil to refineries in Texas so rather than refine the oil it can be shipped overseas. 

This is utter nonsense.  I can't believe this thread is still going with these outlandish claims and absurd statements.  Idiocy

The pipeline is to expedite and improve the efficiency of transporting oil. Can you imagine if all your vegetables were still delivered by horse and cart?   A lot of it is already going to Texas, by rail rather than by pipe.  There hasn't been a refinery in the US with excess capacity since the 70's.  Nebraska wasn't going to block it, nor did they help block it.  The president's own advisors said NOT to block it.  It's the unilateral action of one man pandering to the environazis.

[Rage Against the McKee]

So, will this pipeline make oil more expensive or not?  I think you can handle the spill issue by making Keystone post a bond or be liable for any damages caused by a spill.

cheaper for everyone

Ok.  So the reports that it will actually raise some prices in the midwest are false?

No. The reason they're building a $7 billion pipeline across nearly 2/3rds of the continent is to have it refined for export in Texas. If the goal was to sell this oil only in the U.S. they would build a pipeline to refineries in the Midwest, which would be much cheaper to do.

yeah, it's a devious plan to bypass all those midwest refineries with limitless capacity to refine oil.  what they really want to send oil to refineries in Texas so rather than refine the oil it can be shipped overseas. 

This is utter nonsense.  I can't believe this thread is still going with these outlandish claims and absurd statements.  Idiocy

The pipeline is to expedite and improve the efficiency of transporting oil. Can you imagine if all your vegetables were still delivered by horse and cart?   A lot of it is already going to Texas, by rail rather than by pipe.  There hasn't been a refinery in the US with excess capacity since the 70's.  Nebraska wasn't going to block it, nor did they help block it.  The president's own advisors said NOT to block it.  It's the unilateral action of one man pandering to the environazis.

Oh, so Nebraska wants the pipeline now? Also, if every refinery in the US is already operating under 100% capacity, then how does getting more crude to Texas help us?

[LickNeckey]

seems like midwestern refineries could process and ship oil through the Great Lakes.

shorter pipeline and access to markets

but i am admittedly really dumb so why doesn't this work??? why the need to reach the gulf???

[SdK]

seems like midwestern refineries could process and ship oil through the Great Lakes.

shorter pipeline and access to markets

but i am admittedly really dumb so why doesn't this work??? why the need to reach the gulf???

Canadian Pirates!!!!

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Also, if every refinery in the US is already operating under 100% capacity, then how does getting more crude to Texas help us?

Stop, you're being a dumbass.  Understand the difference between producing a product, taking it to market, and what is done with that product once it leaves market.  The guy that grows the carrot is different than the guy who trucks it, is different that the guy who washes and bundles it, is different than the guy who sells it, is different than the guy the puts it in your salad at Golden Corral.

Refinery capacity is near 100%.  Believe or not, they have to be shut down every once in a while for maintenance, EPA colonoscopy, etc. We're literally refining as much oil as we possibly (and safely) can in the US.  At $110 p/bbl it needs to go somewhere.  Think of, GASP, the lost tax revenues if it stayed in the ground.  The cheaper it gets to the refineries the cheaper its costs, the cheaper it is for everyone.  Oil is not refined in North Dakota or Canada.  It needs to get to market so it can be sold.


There is no sense in arguing the merits of shutting down the pipeline, because outside of the environazis, Obama, and you, everyone knows and agrees it was wrong. 

[tdaver]

If the goal was to sell this oil only in the U.S. they would build a pipeline to refineries in the Midwest, which would be much cheaper to do.

why the need to reach the gulf???

There already is a pipeline to the midwest.  The original Keystone pipeline (completed within the last couple years) goes to crude terminals in Oklahoma and the St. Louis area.  The are some other smaller pipelines that go to the great leaks region and then down to STL and OK as well.  Refineries can only run so much of the stuff and midwest refining capacity isn't nearly enough to run what the expected production from Canada will get up to.  The gulf has lots of refining capacity and could take this crude rather than the importing from somewhere overseas.  

It's a good thing for the industry and the country to have a stable supply of oil from our own continent.  If we block it from getting to the gulf, they will probably just build a pipeline to the Pacific and ship it to Asia.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If the goal was to sell this oil only in the U.S. they would build a pipeline to refineries in the Midwest, which would be much cheaper to do.

why the need to reach the gulf???

There already is a pipeline to the midwest.  The original Keystone pipeline (completed within the last couple years) goes to crude terminals in Oklahoma and the St. Louis area.  The are some other smaller pipelines that go to the great leaks region and then down to STL and OK as well.  Refineries can only run so much of the stuff and midwest refining capacity isn't nearly enough to run what the expected production from Canada will get up to.  The gulf has lots of refining capacity and could take this crude rather than the importing from somewhere overseas.  

It's a good thing for the industry and the country to have a stable supply of oil from our own continent.  If we block it from getting to the gulf, they will probably just build a pipeline to the Pacific and ship it to Asia.

Yeah, the Canadian environmentalists and native tribes would never let a pipeline from Alberta to the west coast of Canada happen, though. Canada needs this pipeline. TransCanada will build it wherever the United States will let them build it. They have no other options. There is absolutely no reason to let them run the oil over the sand hills when there are other potential routes.

Also, I believe the benefits of most of our oil imports coming from Canada are exaggerated. This is an interesting article on the subject of energy independence.

http://www.international-economy.com/TIE_W11_Verleger.pdf

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

the aquifer is already in danger 

[Rage Against the McKee]

the aquifer is already in danger 

What are the capacities of all of those different pipelines?

[Dugout DickStone]

the aquifer is already in danger 

Well it looks like Canada already has a pipeline and doesn't need another.

[tdaver]

If the goal was to sell this oil only in the U.S. they would build a pipeline to refineries in the Midwest, which would be much cheaper to do.

why the need to reach the gulf???

There already is a pipeline to the midwest.  The original Keystone pipeline (completed within the last couple years) goes to crude terminals in Oklahoma and the St. Louis area.  The are some other smaller pipelines that go to the great leaks region and then down to STL and OK as well.  Refineries can only run so much of the stuff and midwest refining capacity isn't nearly enough to run what the expected production from Canada will get up to.  The gulf has lots of refining capacity and could take this crude rather than the importing from somewhere overseas.  

It's a good thing for the industry and the country to have a stable supply of oil from our own continent.  If we block it from getting to the gulf, they will probably just build a pipeline to the Pacific and ship it to Asia.

Yeah, the Canadian environmentalists and native tribes would never let a pipeline from Alberta to the west coast of Canada happen, though. Canada needs this pipeline. TransCanada will build it wherever the United States will let them build it. They have no other options. There is absolutely no reason to let them run the oil over the sand hills when there are other potential routes.

Also, I believe the benefits of most of our oil imports coming from Canada are exaggerated. This is an interesting article on the subject of energy independence.

http://www.international-economy.com/TIE_W11_Verleger.pdf

Maybe so but eventually they will get the oil to the demand, gulf or Asia.  Might as well be us.  I don't really care what route the keystone takes, one side needs to budge so that the project can get started.

[Dugout DickStone]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

This may force TransCanada to make a public statement.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-3900

Right now, I don't think the answer to your question is available since it has become a political issue.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

[Dugout DickStone]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

Yes, most likely. You won't have to support as many people's unemployment with tax dollars, though. Honestly, I don't think the effect on the cost of gas will amount to much.

[Dugout DickStone]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

Yes, most likely. You won't have to support as many people's unemployment with tax dollars, though. Honestly, I don't think the effect on the cost of gas will amount to much.

Then, when the pipeline is complete, we all pay more for gas without the jobs and Canada is pushing crude over our land for shipping out of our ports for sale in foreign markets?

I mean, I get that we need jobs but why not just build it ourselves and charge the Canadians a large user fee?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

Yes, most likely. You won't have to support as many people's unemployment with tax dollars, though. Honestly, I don't think the effect on the cost of gas will amount to much.

Then, when the pipeline is complete, we all pay more for gas without the jobs and Canada is pushing crude over our land for shipping out of our ports for sale in foreign markets?

I mean, I get that we need jobs but why not just build it ourselves and charge the Canadians a large user fee?

It's not going to make gas cost more in the midwest, that is nonsense

we obviously need and use a crap ton of oil in the US, we don't produce enough to meet our needs.  fortunately canada has a lot and they don't use the proceeds from its sale to kill us so that's good too.  pipe will bring oil to our refineries quicker and cheaper.  we also get a crap ton of jobs out of it

this isn't a difficult concept

[06wildcat]

The cheaper it gets to the refineries the cheaper its costs, the cheaper it is for everyone. 

 

What a rough ridin' tard.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

Yes, most likely. You won't have to support as many people's unemployment with tax dollars, though. Honestly, I don't think the effect on the cost of gas will amount to much.

Then, when the pipeline is complete, we all pay more for gas without the jobs and Canada is pushing crude over our land for shipping out of our ports for sale in foreign markets?

I mean, I get that we need jobs but why not just build it ourselves and charge the Canadians a large user fee?

It's not going to make gas cost more in the midwest, that is nonsense

we obviously need and use a crap ton of oil in the US, we don't produce enough to meet our needs.  fortunately canada has a lot and they don't use the proceeds from its sale to kill us so that's good too.  pipe will bring oil to our refineries quicker and cheaper.  we also get a crap ton of jobs out of it

this isn't a difficult concept

If you were a major stockholder of an oil company and you had a big pipeline to reduce the cost of getting your oil to refineries and to market, would you want your company to pass that cost savings on to your customers, or would you want to sell the oil at the market rate so that you make a lot of money? I would sell the oil at market rate, personally.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

Yes, most likely. You won't have to support as many people's unemployment with tax dollars, though. Honestly, I don't think the effect on the cost of gas will amount to much.

Then, when the pipeline is complete, we all pay more for gas without the jobs and Canada is pushing crude over our land for shipping out of our ports for sale in foreign markets?

I mean, I get that we need jobs but why not just build it ourselves and charge the Canadians a large user fee?

It's not going to make gas cost more in the midwest, that is nonsense

we obviously need and use a crap ton of oil in the US, we don't produce enough to meet our needs.  fortunately canada has a lot and they don't use the proceeds from its sale to kill us so that's good too.  pipe will bring oil to our refineries quicker and cheaper.  we also get a crap ton of jobs out of it

this isn't a difficult concept

If you were a major stockholder of an oil company and you had a big pipeline to reduce the cost of getting your oil to refineries and to market, would you want your company to pass that cost savings on to your customers, or would you want to sell the oil at the market rate so that you make a lot of money? I would sell the oil at market rate, personally.

you idiots clearly have no idea how this works

[06wildcat]

Has anyone answered my question?  Are we just helping the Canadians get their oil to foreign markets cheaper in exchange for some chitty blue collar jobs that will be gone in a few years?

Yes. We should also get more oil into our gulf coast refineries, while bypassing some of our midwest refineries. We are talking about thousands of blue collar jobs, though.

So, if I am not a grease monkey who would work on a pipeline, but I buy gas in the midwest, I am likely to pay more for my gas thus will be worse off.  Right?

Yes, most likely. You won't have to support as many people's unemployment with tax dollars, though. Honestly, I don't think the effect on the cost of gas will amount to much.

Then, when the pipeline is complete, we all pay more for gas without the jobs and Canada is pushing crude over our land for shipping out of our ports for sale in foreign markets?

I mean, I get that we need jobs but why not just build it ourselves and charge the Canadians a large user fee?

It's not going to make gas cost more in the midwest, that is nonsense

we obviously need and use a crap ton of oil in the US, we don't produce enough to meet our needs.  fortunately canada has a lot and they don't use the proceeds from its sale to kill us so that's good too.  pipe will bring oil to our refineries quicker and cheaper.  we also get a crap ton of jobs out of it

this isn't a difficult concept

If you were a major stockholder of an oil company and you had a big pipeline to reduce the cost of getting your oil to refineries and to market, would you want your company to pass that cost savings on to your customers, or would you want to sell the oil at the market rate so that you make a lot of money? I would sell the oil at market rate, personally.

you idiots clearly have no idea how this works

At this point, the cost of gasoline has nothing to do with the cost to extract, ship and refine oil. Those factors even have very little to do with the cost of the actual oil.

Oil from tar sands cost about $27 per barrel to produce with a gravity of less than 10 api (really shitty oil for refining).

Dubai crude can be produced for between $3-$10 per barrel with a gravity of 31 api (good for refining).

The tar sand oil will sell for about $100, while the Dubai oil will run $115 or so.

[Dugout DickStone]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/keystone-pipeline-jobs-claims-a-bipartisan-fumble/2011/12/13/gIQAwxFisO_blog.html

 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/keystone-pipeline-jobs-claims-a-bipartisan-fumble/2011/12/13/gIQAwxFisO_blog.html

 

I have no doubt that more than 51 dancer jobs would be created if you include exotic dancers.