Author Topic: Killing animals  (Read 144941 times)

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Offline sys

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #850 on: October 26, 2016, 04:37:12 PM »
turkeys were hunted/habit altered to near extinction in ks.  they were reintroduced in the 50s and have done really well.  the increase in woodland habitat that emo talks about definitely helped, but a lot of that woodland habitat had already succeeded by 30 years ago, the turkeys just hadn't completed their occupation of it yet.
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Offline XocolateThundarr

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #851 on: October 26, 2016, 04:51:44 PM »
turkeys were hunted/habit altered to near extinction in ks.  they were reintroduced in the 50s and have done really well.  the increase in woodland habitat that emo talks about definitely helped, but a lot of that woodland habitat had already succeeded by 30 years ago, the turkeys just hadn't completed their occupation of it yet.

#occupywoodlands
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Offline Asteriskhead

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #852 on: October 26, 2016, 05:03:15 PM »
Unrelated to the current discussion......but I am totally stoked that we have a resurgence of quail in our area.  We also have eleventy-billion turkeys in our area too.

Calling turkeys during the spring season used to be my favorite part of the hunting I did, other than the time spent with my grandpa, dad, and best friend growing up. I don't like getting out of bed that early for anything though.

Offline SdK

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #853 on: October 27, 2016, 04:25:20 AM »
Why is God in this conversation all. Maybe we humans should learn to live in harmony with the other animals that inhabit this beautiful Earth instead of killing because populations are too high? How is a population too high? Will nature not correct this? Does man need to determine how many animals are allowed to live? eff all that mess. If a deer totals your car, tough crap. Mountain lion mauls your kid, tough crap. Nature running it's course.

Humans killing animals isn't nature running it's course?
No.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #854 on: October 27, 2016, 07:45:44 AM »
Why not?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline cDubya

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #855 on: October 27, 2016, 07:46:04 AM »
Why is God in this conversation all. Maybe we humans should learn to live in harmony with the other animals that inhabit this beautiful Earth instead of killing because populations are too high? How is a population too high? Will nature not correct this? Does man need to determine how many animals are allowed to live? eff all that mess. If a deer totals your car, tough crap. Mountain lion mauls your kid, tough crap. Nature running it's course.

Humans killing animals isn't nature running it's course?
No.

Animals kill other animals to survive. And at one point we humans had to do the same thing. Some of us still do. Not to "survive" necessarily, but to supplement survival. I think its healthy if done in a humane and monitored fashion. My  :th_twocents:

Offline mhkpasa

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #856 on: October 27, 2016, 08:13:40 AM »
Why is God in this conversation all. Maybe we humans should learn to live in harmony with the other animals that inhabit this beautiful Earth instead of killing because populations are too high? How is a population too high? Will nature not correct this? Does man need to determine how many animals are allowed to live? eff all that mess. If a deer totals your car, tough crap. Mountain lion mauls your kid, tough crap. Nature running it's course.

Humans killing animals isn't nature running it's course?
No.

Animals kill other animals to survive. And at one point we humans had to do the same thing. Some of us still do. Not to "survive" necessarily, but to supplement survival. I think its healthy if done in a humane and monitored fashion. My  :th_twocents:

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #857 on: October 27, 2016, 08:18:42 AM »
Were trees smaller 30 years ago?  i mean, i can't speak for the arboreal state of KS before my birth, but i think they had trees back then too.

Um yes a tree is much larger today than it was 30 years ago.  I can't believe this is even being questioned?

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #858 on: October 27, 2016, 08:30:24 AM »
turkeys were hunted/habit altered to near extinction in ks.  they were reintroduced in the 50s and have done really well.  the increase in woodland habitat that emo talks about definitely helped, but a lot of that woodland habitat had already succeeded by 30 years ago, the turkeys just hadn't completed their occupation of it yet.

sys, study after study links loss (change) of habitat as the #1 reason bobwhite quail numbers have declined so much since the 60's.  It just so happens this change (usually) also benefits turkeys.  I can tell you without a doubt the areas I ran around in as a little boy are much different today.  I recall seeing two turkeys in my life before 1997, and now if you drive this road in the winter time you might see 100 birds.  I'll see if I can dig up some old satellite imagery. 

(On another anecdotal note, about 7 years ago I went to a field trial for hunting dogs and the old timers were lamenting how they now have to release quail to run birds on, that just 10 years prior they were running exclusively on wild birds.  They noted how the hardwoods had matured and there was no edge cover for the quail anymore.)

Anyway, one larger point I wanted to make, you'll hear a lot of bird hunters saying turkeys eat quail eggs or quail chicks, and they have wiped out the quail and such, and that just isn't true.  It's the change in habitat, and not just smaller trees growing up to be big trees, but also farmers ripping out tree rows that once separated two fields to make one bigger easier to farm field.   

On a related note, I am impressively unbelievably bad at hunting turkeys.

Offline XocolateThundarr

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #859 on: October 27, 2016, 08:34:36 AM »
turkeys were hunted/habit altered to near extinction in ks.  they were reintroduced in the 50s and have done really well.  the increase in woodland habitat that emo talks about definitely helped, but a lot of that woodland habitat had already succeeded by 30 years ago, the turkeys just hadn't completed their occupation of it yet.

sys, study after study links loss (change) of habitat as the #1 reason bobwhite quail numbers have declined so much since the 60's.  It just so happens this change (usually) also benefits turkeys.  I can tell you without a doubt the areas I ran around in as a little boy are much different today.  I recall seeing two turkeys in my life before 1997, and now if you drive this road in the winter time you might see 100 birds.  I'll see if I can dig up some old satellite imagery. 

(On another anecdotal note, about 7 years ago I went to a field trial for hunting dogs and the old timers were lamenting how they now have to release quail to run birds on, that just 10 years prior they were running exclusively on wild birds.  They noted how the hardwoods had matured and there was no edge cover for the quail anymore.)

Anyway, one larger point I wanted to make, you'll hear a lot of bird hunters saying turkeys eat quail eggs or quail chicks, and they have wiped out the quail and such, and that just isn't true.  It's the change in habitat, and not just smaller trees growing up to be big trees, but also farmers ripping out tree rows that once separated two fields to make one bigger easier to farm field.   

On a related note, I am impressively unbelievably bad at hunting turkeys.

That is why whenever I am cutting firewoood I always place the limbs I'm not going to burn into piles along the tree row.  They give those tasty little fellers a place to hide.
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Offline CNS

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #860 on: October 27, 2016, 08:38:57 AM »
I have had a MO guy tell me that they are blaming brome for being too thick vs natural grass.

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Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #861 on: October 27, 2016, 08:47:00 AM »
I have had a MO guy tell me that they are blaming brome for being too thick vs natural grass.

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In MO for sure brome and fescue.  Eastern KS too. 

Offline HerrSonntag

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #862 on: October 27, 2016, 08:56:35 AM »
Were trees smaller 30 years ago?  i mean, i can't speak for the arboreal state of KS before my birth, but i think they had trees back then too.

Um yes a tree is much larger today than it was 30 years ago.  I can't believe this is even being questioned?
But wouldn't there have been trees from 60 years ago back then that aren't around any longer?  What I'm saying is that I've never read anywhere that Kansas is materially more forested today than 30 years ago. If it is, that's news to me

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #863 on: October 27, 2016, 09:12:11 AM »
Were trees smaller 30 years ago?  i mean, i can't speak for the arboreal state of KS before my birth, but i think they had trees back then too.

Um yes a tree is much larger today than it was 30 years ago.  I can't believe this is even being questioned?
But wouldn't there have been trees from 60 years ago back then that aren't around any longer?  What I'm saying is that I've never read anywhere that Kansas is materially more forested today than 30 years ago. If it is, that's news to me

I think trees live pretty long. 

I'm not saying it's an increase in acreage of wooded area, it's the maturation of the wooded areas.  A tree has to be so big for turkeys to roost in it.  Some areas used to not have trees big enough, and now they do.  I also don't doubt some of what sys said is true, but generally speaking upland birds can be prolific breeders.  Like I think they can breed faster than the habitat can change.  Huns for example were expanding their range 20+ miles per year from Canada into the US after they were introduced.  I would bet turkeys put into a vacuum would move even faster.

Offline CNS

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #864 on: October 27, 2016, 12:02:34 PM »
http://www.kshb.com/news/national/arbys-testing-deer-meat-sandwiches-through-november?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=58116db204d30112e7a035b0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

Quote
Arby's is taking its "We have the meats" slogan seriously. The fast-food chain will add venison — aka deer meat — to its list of ingredients this month.

Offline kslim

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #865 on: October 27, 2016, 12:13:51 PM »
This is what kansas lawmakers think is important? This amendment makes no sense at all, vote no
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #866 on: October 27, 2016, 12:34:55 PM »
http://www.kshb.com/news/national/arbys-testing-deer-meat-sandwiches-through-november?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=58116db204d30112e7a035b0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

Quote
Arby's is taking its "We have the meats" slogan seriously. The fast-food chain will add venison — aka deer meat — to its list of ingredients this month.

Not in Kansas. :frown:

Offline SdK

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #867 on: October 27, 2016, 12:40:33 PM »
I guess I've just never understood hunting. I would love every aspect aside from the killing. Getting animals stuffed is something I don't get at all. Unless you killed it with hand to hand combat or it was attacking you and you put a cap in its dome with your handgun, gtfoomf.

Offline SdK

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #868 on: October 27, 2016, 12:50:57 PM »
I don't want to quibble about what is natural and what is not. We have sadly gone from survival of the fittest to everyone getting to live. Too many weak humans are allowed to live by society that there is no longer a need for strong/manly man/self sufficient in the old sense. I am rambling. Basically I'd rather our human population was controlled before we worry about other animal populations.

There's just something wrong to me to have some humans as a collective living off the system and not having to contribute to survive and having another segment out there blasting animals away. It's a weird connection i have between these two and I'm not articulating it well.

Tl;dr: you didn't miss anything.

Offline SdK

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #869 on: October 27, 2016, 12:52:40 PM »
I view all life as beautiful. Death is a part of that. I equate killing animals to control their population as killing humans to lessen our population. I'd like to have both or neither.

Offline _33

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #870 on: October 27, 2016, 01:02:59 PM »
I view all life as beautiful. Death is a part of that. I equate killing animals to control their population as killing humans to lessen our population. I'd like to have both or neither.

I find your anti-hunting, pro-euthanasia stance fascinating.

Offline SdK

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #871 on: October 27, 2016, 01:57:46 PM »
We, myself included, do far more harm than good to Earth and it's inhabitants. Earth will be fine long after we are gone, life will evolve.

Offline CNS

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #872 on: October 27, 2016, 02:20:56 PM »
If we were still survival of the fittest'ing, we wouldn't have most cool ass things we have now. 

The creation of pretty much any technology after the horse drawn plow required time not spent trying to wrestle life from nature. 

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #873 on: October 27, 2016, 02:32:16 PM »
If we were still survival of the fittest'ing, we wouldn't have most cool ass things we have now. 

The creation of pretty much any technology after the horse drawn plow required time not spent trying to wrestle life from nature.

Yeah, human evolution stopped a long time ago, and we've never been better off.

Offline SdK

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Re: Killing animals
« Reply #874 on: October 27, 2016, 02:32:37 PM »
You are right. Everything now is simpler yet more confused. I love&hate it.